SURPRISE HEARING Friday 18th August

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What is your source? Where are you getting that Todd Moore hasn't read anything, but what's been presented at trial? I'm sorry, but I have to call total BS on that statement unless you can provide a source, and it had better be a quote from Todd Moore, himself.

It looks to me like you are trying to discredit him with that post for believing in the guilt of the WM3 , and frankly, I think that's in very, very poor taste and a bunch of other stuff I won't say.

I'm so sorry it was Steven Branch not Todd Moore.
I hope I'm linking to the right video because I don't have a flash player at work
http://www.wtsp.com/video/1118435452001/0/Steven-Branch-speaks-out-on-WM3
I did not try to discredit Todd Moore for believing in the guilt on the contrary he is pretty much one of the only non supporters I can understand his reasoning.It's too much to deal with if the case is not closed.
But he never considered the parents of the WM3 who lost their children as well.
I'm curious about Steven Branch,I don't remember anything about him from back then.Was he even in Stevie's life at all?
 
I'm so sorry it was Steven Branch not Todd Moore.
I hope I'm linking to the right video because I don't have a flash player at work
http://www.wtsp.com/video/1118435452001/0/Steven-Branch-speaks-out-on-WM3
I did not try to discredit Todd Moore for believing in the guilt on the contrary he is pretty much one of the only non supporters I can understand his reasoning.It's too much to deal with if the case is not closed.
But he never considered the parents of the WM3 who lost their children as well.
I'm curious about Steven Branch,I don't remember anything about him from back then.Was he even in Stevie's life at all?

I appreciate you finding you had the wrong person, and saying so. I think it is awfully hard to expect anyone whose child has been brutally murdered to have a show of compassion for the families of those accused of the crime, especially since those people were responsible for raising their offspring, the defendants.

I have no facts regarding Steven Branch Sr. I've heard the rumors, and that's all.
 
I was alerted to and became interested in this case many months ago by a coworker.

After having researched and read about as much as one could, I honestly believe that at the absolute minimum the WM3 deserved a new and truthful trial, but my actual personal opinion is they are not guilty of these horrific murders. And at this point the killer(s) will go free and these 3 beautiful children will never have justice for their memories.

What is putting me off is the argumentative and condescending tone of those who believe them to be guilty. There is one poster about 3 pages back (sorry but I forget your name) whom while they believe the WM3 to be guilty, stated their opinion in a factual and tolerant tone to those who believe different.

What I truly want to say, because I am seeing this over and over again, they did indeed never plead guilty.

The Alford Plea allowed them to claim their innocence, which they did, and verbally enter a plea of nolo, or no contest, which is then entered by the court as guilty.

I have no issue with anyone who feels they are guilty, you are by all means entitled to that, but using the argument that they plead guilty really is a non-started. At no time did they use the word guilt(y). They plead no contest.

I respectfully disagree. They did use the word guilty.

Damien's official plea: "Your honor, I am innocent of these charges, but I'm entering an Alford Guilty Plea today, based upon the advice of my council, and my understanding that it's in my best interest to do so..."

Jason's official plea: "Your Honor, first of all, I am innocent of murdering Christopher Byers, Michael Moore or Steven Branch. However, after serving eighteen years in the penitentiary for such, I agree that it is in the states best interest, as well as my own, that based upon North Carolina vs. Alford, that I plead guilty to first degree murder."

Jessie's official plea: "I am pleading guilty, based upon North Carolina vs. Alford, although I am innocent ... this plea is in my best interest."

They also stated they are innocent which is their right but they had to plead guilty in order to use the Alford plea.

Video of hearing, you can hear it from their own mouths.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45Ei7vnOesE&feature=player_embedded"]The West Memphis 3 WM3 Public Hearing 8-19-11 part 2 - YouTube[/ame]
 
There is good reason to be sceptical of celebrity envolvement or more to the point "money". Sorry but it's not so much they put one over on poor helpless Arkansas but the amount of superiority they bring with them. Maybe not so much Eddie Vedder but Natalie Maines leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Whenever she's involved my stomache turns.:sick:

Natalie Maines is one of the greatest singers alive, a political hero and a national treasure. I'm sorry if some people get upset when a woman speaks her mind.

My point was that the government always has tremendous, even overwhelming, resources. I know the WM3 supporters raised a lot of money, but I seriously doubt the total comes close to resources of the police and prosecutors.
 
Respectfully, Snipped for space and because that is the part that I said I was going to look for. I just wanted to say that I am not ignoring this and am really looking it up, but you will probably be back before I am and I didn't want it to look like I said I would look and then disappeared (especially after I mentioned how much I appreciate you not ignoring my questions :) ). I have been on the Callahan site now for the last couple hours looking for the info on the wax (Haven't even started looking for the necklace stuff yet.) because I am trying to stay away from all blogs and forums and just look at facts. Because it is now Monday it is also now finals week and I have 2 finals and a midterm this week, so my time is going to be kind of limited, but I am still digging and looking forward to discussing this further! :)

Ahhh Mondays....back to work for me so my time will be limited as well. No worries. I think we will be debating this topic for months and years to come. Good luck on your finals. :)
 
Jacoby hair..

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/press_conference.html

Hobbs' motive and all the holes in his alibi...

http://www.jivepuppi.com/Terry_Hobbs.html

Sworn affidavits from witnesses who put Hobbs in the company of all three victims on the night of May 5th 1993....

http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/affidavit_jamie_clark_ballard.pdf

http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/affidavit_deborah_moyer.pdf

http://callahan.8k.com/pdf/affidavit_brandy_clark_williams.pdf

Hobbs having a pocketknife belonging to one of the victims in his possession after the murders...already linked to in the 2007 police interview with Terry Hobbs.

There is more evidence against Terry Hobbs than there ever was against the WM3. Is it enough to convict, or even accuse him? Probably not, but in that case there is even less to convict or accuse Damien, Jason and Jessie.

Anyone who wants to debunk that assertion, please show me the following...

1) DNA from the crime scene which is consistent with any or all of the WM3.

2) DNA from the crime scene which is consistent with a known friend or associate of the WM3. Bonus points if you can find DNA consistent with someone who gave any of them alibis on the night of May 5th, 1993.

3) Sworn affidavits from anyone who puts the WM3 in the company of the victims on the night of the murder.

4) Witness statements from any of the WM3 which admit to having any of the victims possessions after the murder.

5) A motive.

Thanks in advance.
 
This really has nothing to do with anything, but this morning (I was away all weekend) on the Today show coverage of the release and the three at a news conference of some sort it appeared to me that DE was doing his best Johnny Depp impersonation.
 
I've been following this case for a couple of years but have never posted on it here at WS. I am torn about 50/50 in terms of the guilt or innocence of the WM3, but I have to say that I agree a bit more with supporters' perspective in terms of the actual plea deal, in that I have never heard of a death row inmate's sentence being amended to "time served."

Does anyone know if there is any precedent for something like this??
 
http://jivepuppi.com/damien_echols_3.html

" Damien described past experimentation with the following drugs/compounds: gasoline, propane, spray paint, glue, cocaine, acid, marijuana, speed, caffeine (sodas), tobacco (1 1/2 packs per day), and alcohol (ps. 234, 105, 168, 227, others). He denied regular use (other than tobacco) and said he had given them up because they interfered with his religious practices. In his two drug tox screenings taken three months apart, he was negative to all drugs tested, including alcohol (ps. 251, 397)."

PLease provide documentation of the drug screens. Why are they not in the court documents? I have not found documentation of these anywhere except the fan club sites for the Memphis Three.


Here is the evidence that statistically moves DE’s likelihood of committing a violent crime into the very scary violence rates of schizophrenics and bipolars that abuse substances. Read the affidavit of George W. Woods, M.D. here:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/gwoods.html
Damien said: “He finally found relief in his own form of medication. He instinctively turned to inhalants and began “huffing” gasoline; he thought he “invented it.”


The chemicals found in solvents, aerosol sprays, and gases can produce a variety of additional effects during or shortly after use. These effects are related to inhalant intoxication and may include violence, belligerence, acute psychosis, and impaired functioning in work or social situations.
http://nhts.net/media/Research Report - Inhalant (12).pdf
http://www.departments.dsu.edu/student_services/ra_projects/huffing.htm



The MacArthur Violence Risk Assessment Study found that 18% of people with a psychiatric disorder committed at least one act of violence in a year. It found that 31% of people who had both a substance abuse disorder and a psychiatric disorder committed at least one act of violence in a year.


Rates of violence in schizophrenics compared:
5.1% in control group without a mental health disorder
27.6% in schizophrenics with a substance abuse disorder
Percentage of people convicted of at least one violent crime, 1973–2006
Source: Fazel S, et al. Journal of the American Medical Association. May 20, 2009.

Rates of violence in people with bipolar disorder compared:
3.4% in control group without a mental health disorder
21.3% in bipolar individuals with a substance abuse disorder
Percentage of people convicted of at least one violent crime, 1973–2004
Source: Fazel S, et al. Archives of General Psychiatry. September 2010.
http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsle...s-and-violence


In summary, Damien Echols admitted that he had abused many substances and chronically inhaled a volatile solvent (gasoline). In fact, Damien thought he had invented huffing. The inhalation of volatile substances causes numerous mental disturbances including belligerent, violent behavior, delusions and hallucinations. Statistically since Damien is diagnosed with both schizophrenic and bipolar disorder, he was 5 to 8 times more likely to commit a violent crime/year than someone without a mental health disorder.
 
Check out the information on the laces. You will find out some important things. Yes, both Stevie and Chris were tied with one black and one white lace, indicating that the laces that tied Chris were not his laces and likewise for Stevie. But, they were the laces from the boys' shoes.

The lengths of these ligatures were about 30" each IIRC. However, the ligatures that tied Michael were not two separate laces, but one lace cut into two parts. We know this because each ligature only had an aiglet on one end. That means that this lace was approximately 60" long.

One of the boys' shoes still had the lace in it when it was found. One lace is missing. Why is this important? Because the hair in question was found under the ligature of Michael Moore, who was not bound with laces from the boys' shoes.

Additionally, the said hair is a red beard hair. How would a beard hair get onto a shoelace by "innocent" transfer? Isn't it possible that the lace in question was bitten into two parts and the beard hair got into the lace that way? The hair on the stump by the discovery ditch was just laying there, like it fell off somehow.

It is after 3 am here, and I have a busy day tomorrow. However, when I can, I'll give you my opinion of how things went down. I have studied and read about this case since 1996 and I might not be able to provide links for everything, but I'm pretty confident of the things I post. In the words of the Terminator, "I'll be back."


CR-You must have been reading my mind,cause I was thinking of asking you YO as to what went down this morning!!! I am looking forward to reading it!!!
 
Natalie Maines is one of the greatest singers alive, a political hero and a national treasure. I'm sorry if some people get upset when a woman speaks her mind.

My point was that the government always has tremendous, even overwhelming, resources. I know the WM3 supporters raised a lot of money, but I seriously doubt the total comes close to resources of the police and prosecutors.

Here is a short list of women that are true national treasures and political heros:
Rosa Parks
Molly Pitcher
Clara Barton
Harriet Tubman
Abigail Adams
Susan B Anthony
Lucy Stone
Elizabeth Cady Stanton

You can read their inspiring biographies online.
 
I respectfully disagree. They did use the word guilty.

Damien's official plea: "Your honor, I am innocent of these charges, but I'm entering an Alford Guilty Plea today, based upon the advice of my council, and my understanding that it's in my best interest to do so..."

Jason's official plea: "Your Honor, first of all, I am innocent of murdering Christopher Byers, Michael Moore or Steven Branch. However, after serving eighteen years in the penitentiary for such, I agree that it is in the states best interest, as well as my own, that based upon North Carolina vs. Alford, that I plead guilty to first degree murder."

Jessie's official plea: "I am pleading guilty, based upon North Carolina vs. Alford, although I am innocent ... this plea is in my best interest."

They also stated they are innocent which is their right but they had to plead guilty in order to use the Alford plea.

Video of hearing, you can hear it from their own mouths.

The West Memphis 3 WM3 Public Hearing 8-19-11 part 2 - YouTube


Yes, they did plead guilty. Have you ever heard of a person on death row subsequently pleading guilty and being released?

Many of those who believe the WM3 are guilty cite all sorts of evidence, like two confessions by Misskelley, candle wax, statements of witnesses (none of whom are dead, to my knowledge), fiber evidence, blood on a necklace, Echol's psych records, etc. Wouldn't that be enough to convict them again should the matter be retried? It's certainly enough for many here to believe they are stone cold guilty.

So why were they released, one from death row? That has never happened before. Never.

Three little boys were found beaten to death/drowned in the woods. Their naked bodies had been hogtied. How could any prosecutor ever, agree to the release of the three murderers for such a crime?

And please don't tell me that the state was so afraid of some powerful celebrities. These are the celebrities who support Mumia Abu Jamal:

Adjoa A. Aiyetoro,
Shana Alexander,
Laurie Anderson,
Maya Angelou,
Paul Auster,
Alec Baldwin,
Russell Banks,
John Perry Barlow,
Richard J. Barnet,
Derrick Bell,
Dennis Brutus,
David Byrne,
Naomi Campbell,
Robbie Conal,
Denise Caruso,
Noam Chomsky,
Richard A. Cloward,
Ben Cohen ,
Kerry Kennedy Cuomo,
Ron Daniels,
U.S. Rep. Ronald V. Dellums,
Dominique de Menil,
Jacques Derrida,
David Dinkins,
E. L. Doctorow ,
Roger Ebert,
Jason Epstein,
Susan Faludi,
Mike Farrell,
Timothy Ferris,
Eileen Fisher,
Henry Louis Gates,
Terry Gilliam,
Danny Glover,
Leon Golub,
Nadine Gordimer,
Stephen Jay Gould,
Günter Grass,
Herbert Chao Gunther,
Jack Healey,
Edward S. Herman,
Jim Hightower,
James Hillman,
bell hooks,
Molly Ivins,
Bill T. Jones,
June Jordan,
Mitchell Kapor,
Casey Kasem,
C. Clark Kissinger,
Herbert Kohl,
Jonathan Kozol,
Tony Kushner,
John Landis,
Spike Lee,
Edward Lewis,
Maya Lin,
Norman Mailer,
Frederick Marx,
Nion McEvoy,
Bobby McFerrin,
Susan Meiselas,
Nancy Meyer,
Pedro Meyer,
Jessica Mitford,
Michael Moore,
Frank Moretti,
James Parks Morton,
Paul Newman,
Peter Norton,
Joyce Carol Oates,
Dean Ornish, MD,
Grace Paley,
Alan Patricof,
Martin D. Payson,
Frances Fox Piven,
Katha Pollit,
Sister Helen Prejean, CSJ,
Charles B. Rangel,
Adrienne Rich,
Tim Robbins,
David A. Ross,
Salman Rushdie,
Susan Sarandon,
Charles C. Savitt,
André Schiffrin,
Peter Sellers,
Nancy Spero,
Art Spiegelman,
Bob Stein,
Gloria Steinem,
Sting,
Michael Stipe,
Oliver Stone,
Brian Stonehill,
Nadine Strossen,
Trudie Styler,
William Styron,
Edith Tiger,
Edward R. Tufte,
Eric Utne,
Bill Viola,
Alice Walker,
Cornel West,
Marc Weiss,
John Edgar Wideman,
Garry Wills,
Joanne Woodward, and
Peter Yarrow


He still sits on death row.
 
He talked about getting his girlfriend pregnant, then using the baby as a human sacrifice.
[snipped for brevity...]


http://callahan.8k.com/images/500/3/381.jpg
First thing i pulled up! Lmao... RUMOR.

"... there was a rumor that suggested that Damien and his 15 year old girlfriend were arrested while in the act of copulation. The purpose of this coitus was so that the couple could conceive and had plans to sacrifice the infant in a satanic ritual"

ETA: Oh yeah it goes on to say that he adamantly DENIED these rumors and there's more but I'm not a good typist, so u can read it for yourself...
 
Yes, they did plead guilty. Have you ever heard of a person on death row subsequently pleading guilty and being released?

Many of those who believe the WM3 are guilty cite all sorts of evidence, like two confessions by Misskelley, candle wax, statements of witnesses (none of whom are dead, to my knowledge), fiber evidence, blood on a necklace, Echol's psych records, etc. Wouldn't that be enough to convict them again should the matter be retried? It's certainly enough for many here to believe they are stone cold guilty.

So why were they released, one from death row? That has never happened before. Never.

Three little boys were found beaten to death/drowned in the woods. Their naked bodies had been hogtied. How could any prosecutor ever, agree to the release of the three murderers for such a crime?

And please don't tell me that the state was so afraid of some powerful celebrities. These are the celebrities who support Mumia Abu Jamal:
Respectfully shortened.

The big difference with this case, IMO, is that Mumia Abu Jamal is a BLACK man, he supposedly shot a POLICE OFFICER, and he was active in the BLACK PANTHERS.
 
I am still just dumbfounded by all this. I remember when it happened with Memphis only being about 80 miles from me. Those poor little boys were soooo tortured. I am just unable to put anything into words so I will just hush,lol.
 
Yes, they did plead guilty. Have you ever heard of a person on death row subsequently pleading guilty and being released?

Many of those who believe the WM3 are guilty cite all sorts of evidence, like two confessions by Misskelley, candle wax, statements of witnesses (none of whom are dead, to my knowledge), fiber evidence, blood on a necklace, Echol's psych records, etc. Wouldn't that be enough to convict them again should the matter be retried? It's certainly enough for many here to believe they are stone cold guilty.

So why were they released, one from death row? That has never happened before. Never.

Three little boys were found beaten to death/drowned in the woods. Their naked bodies had been hogtied. How could any prosecutor ever, agree to the release of the three murderers for such a crime?

QUOTE]

Respectfully snipped by me

Do you have answers to your questions are they just questions that you'd like answers to? Because I don't have the answers but I do agree with what you have asked.

I am torn between this because I would never admit to guilt if I didn't do it. But I also wouldn't want to sit in prison one day more than I already had. The state HAD to be worried about something - the boys were going to be granted a new trial in December. But the boy's lawyers had to be nervous too since they told them to plead guilty. They probably agreed to disagree??? I don't know. But if you have answers to your questions or even opinions, I'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance.
 
Respectfully shortened.

The big difference with this case, IMO, is that Mumia Abu Jamal is a BLACK man, he supposedly shot a POLICE OFFICER, and he was active in the BLACK PANTHERS.

Are you saying that because he is black and shot a police officer, his legions of powerful celebrity supporters cannot get him off, while here, the highly publicized and horrifically gruesome murders of three little boys, whose dead, little bodies can be seen on the internet, is easier for celebs to affect?
 
For starters Jessie wanted to incriminate Damien and Jason, and not himself, so it's only natural for him to give a bogus time that the murders happened because he knew he had an alibi for that time. Jessie said he said the boys were tied with rope because he wanted to throw the police off the track.

No fiber expert will ever testify in any courtroom that any fiber is an exact match with another. They will either state the fibers to be similar or dissimilar, with added explanation. So it is a non-argument and misleading to the casual observer to claim that Savakius wouldn't say the fibers matched.

As for Terry and the Pasdar case, Terry knew what they were really up to, so why would he be cooperative? If someone's trying to paint him as the perp in his own stepson's murder why would he help them further that notion?

What's also important to know is that Damien Echols defense team has never brought up Terry Hobbs name in court in conjunction with him being an alternate suspect. The defense team has only said they have an alternate suspect.

It's all for show anyway because any court would laugh at a single hair from a parent of a child as having any viable meaning in a murder case.

BBM
Okay, I have to stop reading any analysis by you at this point. Right there you are defending the fact that the boy LIED to cover his own a$$ All this tells me is that he is not to be believed! Granted, a coerced liar due to the circumstances, but nothing he says IMO in his confession bears any weight at all! The confession probably bore the most weight in the entire case and was the reason LE were even allowed to obtain warrants! I believe this case should have been thrown out of court as soon as Jessie Misskelley recanted his confession and any and all evidence retrieved BASED upon that confession should not have been allowed into court.
 

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