TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

The only explanation I have for the cloths in the brush is this.. She exited the car with her clothing, she was than chased down and abducted. The clothing got left behind in a struggle. She was forced into someone's car and than driven to the location where her body was found and killed. Now I'm really wanting to know what Karen was found wearing when her body was found, if anything.

Not knowing the exact location where the clothing was found in the bush it is hard to visualize if this is a plausible theory or not.


A lot is riding on if the car was driven on a flat tire and how the tire became flat. This would also tell us a lot about who was capable of committing this crime. If the tire had a sensor to tell the operator of the car the tire was low and the time and/or the mileage at which this sensor was activated is recorded on the car's on board computer would also tell us a lot IMO. Was the car parked and then the tire flattened or was the car driven the exact distance from Karen's house to where the car was found on a low or flat tire? Was the seat adjusted for Karen's height? Was the rear view mirror adjusted for Karen or someone taller when the car was found?

Perhaps the on board computer can tell investigator how many miles the car was driven each day? If it could be determined the most probable route in which Karen would have taken from the Halloween party to pick up her daughter and return home and then to drive from her house to the location where her car was found, compared to if the car was driven the extra 7 miles or so from the house to the cemetery and to where the car was found would be very interesting to know. WOULDN'T IT? I would assume Karen arrived at the party before midnight and left after midnight so the mileage if readable would have started when she left the party I would assume.

JMO

ETA: This doesn't explain the dog's not hitting on Karen's scent outside of the car as pointed out by ThoughtFox.

Nehemiah said:

Is there a source for this please?

He said that he saw her from the stairwell when she and daughter arrived around 1:30 a.m., but I haven't read that he saw her "leave". Her son, Preston, referenced her leaving in an interview. I am interested in where this was reported.

Thanks.

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He told Karen's family that he saw her leave:

GRACE: To Jeffrey Johnson, Karen`s brother, you spoke to David Swift, the husband, almost two weeks ago. What did he tell you at that time, the last time you spoke to him?

JOHNSON: He just -- well, he told me that she did leave the house that night. He was at the top of the stairs when she had left. And that - -

GRACE: At 5:00 a.m.? What time did she leave?

JOHNSON: Well, we never was clear on the time. I really still don`t know the time. I know we didn`t get the phone call that she was missing Sunday until like 4:00 in the afternoon.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1111/21/ng.01.html

ThoughtFox said:

It seems to me that if his DNA is found it is even worse because he would probably be the only man she was with that night, and therefore he would be the prime suspect. Especially since they were estranged and planning a divorce. She had gone out to a Halloween party the night before dressed as cat woman. Perhaps he was jealous or angry? That doesn't mean there was ever anyone else - I doubt it, actually, this woman was too busy planning her future jobs to have a boyfriend.

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SBM


My original post was pointing to the fact that if Karen was found to be sexually assaulted (by someone other than David) it would likely eliminate David as being a suspect.

But I see your point as well.

Let's say DNA evidence (semen) was found at the crime scene (where the body was found) that does not match David. Then I think it is safe to say David is innocent. Although that evidence likely washed away a long time a go being it has been six weeks now since Karen disappeared.

JMO

If this DOES turn out to be a spousal murder with a divorce pending, I wonder if child support has anything to do with some of these cases...I know that it can be quite high in some states, and some spouses may feel it is "cheaper" to just get full custody the "old fashioned" way, i.e. killing the spouse more likely to get primary custody. I hate to think it can come down to that, JMO.

fran said:

This is another one of those 'Groundhog Day' cases.

Couple estranged or in the process of splitting up, SO last one to see the victim, who is never to be seen again or ..................found deceased.

We really need to keep count of the number of spouses who saw their spouse (ie victim) drive away, walk away, run away after an argument, jump out of the car in the middle of nowhere, never to be seen again or worse.

Same old, same old....


fran

RIP Ms Swift. :rose:

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Add to that the red-flag of when a husband going thru a divorce wants custody of the kids (not sure that was the case here)...

I had hopes that there would be an arrest made today! I had high hopes that local LE had more information and knowledge that we the public did not know about. I really hoped that finding her body would be the final key to making the arrest. I know that was an unlikely scenario, but one can always hope.

I have read several cases where LE has blood evidence or other compelling evidence that they hold on to until the body is found. Little Keisha was one that completely surprised me. The mountain of evidence that they had, and yet, they waited until they were led to her little body.

Please bring an arrest tomorrow. Justice for Karen! Justice for Karen's children and family!

cluciano63 said:

If this DOES turn out to be a spousal murder with a divorce pending, I wonder if child support has anything to do with some of these cases...I know that it can be quite high in some states, and some spouses may feel it is "cheaper" to just get full custody the "old fashioned" way, i.e. killing the spouse more likely to get primary custody. I hate to think it can come down to that, JMO.

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I think that's part of it and then there is the "if I can't have her nobody else will".

I'm just surprised they haven't arrested him yet.

cluciano63 said:

If this DOES turn out to be a spousal murder with a divorce pending, I wonder if child support has anything to do with some of these cases...I know that it can be quite high in some states, and some spouses may feel it is "cheaper" to just get full custody the "old fashioned" way, i.e. killing the spouse more likely to get primary custody. I hate to think it can come down to that, JMO.

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The crazy logic and gamble of those who think they can get away with it :banghead:
In the end they lose and how selfish, heartless, cruel to take away the mother of their children, let alone the life of an other!

I have to admit that I still have a sliver of hope that her husband is not involved. For the kids, I have that hope. However, this would be against the logic of her disappearance and against the statistics of such a crime.

Rest in Peace, Karen

:rose:


Now I shall go back and read the details........

Now that the body has been identified and the obvious conclusion would be to look at the husband....I wonder what Here4myfriend thinks.....or if the locals are looking at it with the same thoughts that posters on here are.

otto said:

We haven't heard anything about an obvious (blood) crime scene, so it was probably a soft kill, like strangulation. That evidence could still be there ... with the colder temps, if there is soft tissue, there would still be marks (I'm guessing). IIRC, Morgan Harrington (Virginia) was found four months after she was murdered and there was DNA available, although I don't remember if cause of death was determined.

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This article appears to indicate it was more than strangulation.

"Box stated the injuries to Swift's body, coupled with the placement of it, warranted the investigation to turn from a missing person case to a murder investigation."

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1793716.html

fran said:

This is another one of those 'Groundhog Day' cases.

Couple estranged or in the process of splitting up, SO last one to see the victim, who is never to be seen again or ..................found deceased.

We really need to keep count of the number of spouses who saw their spouse (ie victim) drive away, walk away, run away after an argument, jump out of the car in the middle of nowhere, never to be seen again or worse.

Same old, same old....


fran

RIP Ms Swift. :rose:

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Agree, fran. Way too common lately, and sadly not every missing woman is found, or the perpetrator brought to justice. At least Karen's remains have been located and identified. Now we pray there is enough evidence for LE to make an arrest.



MOO

Nehemiah said:

Is there a source for this please?

He said that he saw her from the stairwell when she and daughter arrived around 1:30 a.m., but I haven't read that he saw her "leave". Her son, Preston, referenced her leaving in an interview. I am interested in where this was reported.

Thanks.

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I knew that I had read that somewhere but couldn't find it. So I just re-read the entire first thread... Whew. Here you go - it was the brother who said it on Nancy Grace (bbm):

epiphany said:

Bonnie

Found: A zippie, a hoodie along with jeans
In trunk: a Halloween costume

Brother: husband told me she did leave t house...but dog did not pick up her scent out of t area>i think someone else drove her car out of the area

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panthera said:

NG

NG now clarifying the Google search at 5:00am (mistaken as a phone call earlier in the program). JJ can't confirm what it was about.

Caller: Does LE know what personal belongings are missing to look for? Has LE contacted her doctor, for any personal problems, anything out of the ordinary?

Jason Cannon: Not sure exactly what types of items found. Bonnie Drucker: Understands LE found Halloween costume in car trunk, some clothing (hoodie, jeans) found nearby. Not sure of financial problems; disappearance doesn't seem to be motivated by that.

JJ: Husband told him that Karen left the house that night, he was at top of the stairs; no one is clear on the time. NG going over the timeline again. JJ thinks somebody else drove car to where it was found, dogs didn't pick up her scent there. Hasn't gotten any answers yet on what caused flat tire.

Showing more photos of Karen.

commercial break

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On NG it was stated that her husband had recently got a bonus from work and didn't share with her, thats why she was cleaning houses and doing odd jobs

Also said he was very controlling about what she wore even when jogging. Especially after she was fitter. Apparently that was said by her friends.

"American women have more to fear from men they know and once loved than from any stranger..." a sad quote from a NY Times articles on domestic violence and homicide...

panthera said:

This article appears to indicate it was more than strangulation.

"Box stated the injuries to Swift's body, coupled with the placement of it, warranted the investigation to turn from a missing person case to a murder investigation."

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1793716.html

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The article also states that the vegetation the body was placed in was kudzu. IMO, there was no need to bury her. That stuff grows so fast, if they hadn't found her body this winter, by next summer the kudzu would have "swallowed" her body right up.

panthera said:

This article appears to indicate it was more than strangulation.

"Box stated the injuries to Swift's body, coupled with the placement of it, warranted the investigation to turn from a missing person case to a murder investigation."

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1793716.html

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Thanks "The body was found in a place that is normally covered in kudzu, approximately 100 yards from a tall iron cross that is visible looking south from Highway 78, close to the Obion River Bridge" (from your link)

As I posted earlier, this appears to be the location. The yellow line starts at the Tornado Memorial Cross and goes towards the road that leads to the Bledsoe Cemetery. I guess that eliminates the theory from the Florida PI that tried to connect Karen's murder to the four prostitute murders (bodies found in a cemetery) in another city because Karen was not left in a cemetery.

When I saw the location of where Karen's body was found, I noticed the proximity to the river. Almost a direct route from their home to the river, actually - if you take Harness Road, it goes right to where her body was located.

So I wonder if the original goal was to put her body in the river but that plan was abandoned for some reason? That theory was reinforced when I just re-read the entire 1st thread (see my post above). I thought I'd remind us all of a previous search mentioned where they scanned the riverbed and also dragged it (IIRC). The location was about 3 miles from the Swift's home. I think the phone must have pinged there - or else something else was found that made them look in that area earlier on.

I know this is a long post below, but I'm amazed at how close she actually was to that river search. Something led LE to the river - or to that general area, IMO.

From Thread One:

IsleOfBeads said:

On Nancy Grace's Facebook page she says the cops are dragging a river and using sonar right now searching for Karen.

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tarabull said:

Wondering which river???

Got me back at these maps again:

Could they still (since the 19th) be searching the Obion River?

It appears the Obion River crosses Willie Johnson Road west of the home...maybe someone can tell me if I have that correct?

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Joe Friday said:

I don't think Willie Johnson Rd is anywhere near the river. If you follow Harness Rd. west it will come close to the river if you follow Burnt Mill Rd around and take Hwy 78 north.

You can see where the river is on this map linked below and see where the house is located compared to the river. The yellow marker is the Swift house. Zoom in to see the street and road names.

http://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?msid=2...27106,0.038581

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Otto said:

Thanks for the maps ... my guess would be the river off Highway 78.

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ThoughtFox said:

The name of the river isn't showing up on Google Maps, so I got out my trusty book of TN topo maps. The Obion River runs under Highway 78 not far from Harness Road. Looks rather swampy around there so there might not be that many places with good access.

ETA: On my Topo map there is a fishing symbol there, so there could be a boat ramp. I'm not sure. I haven't checked Google Earth.

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panthera said:

NG

Editor for Dyersburg Gazette, Jason Cannon, on now describing depth of river; several cross-overs (bridges), possibility of someone disposing of body in the middle of the night. NG showing video of river with a bridge crossing it.

Search area is approx. 3 mi. from Karen's home.

commercial break.

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panthera said:

NG

Showing video clips of searches, Karen's son begging for her return, etc.

NG talking with Nicole, reporter, about Karen being athletic, avid runner, car being 1/4 mi. from home that Karen could have gotten back home.

Caller: what is husband doing in search for Karen, and what led LE to the riverbed? Jason Cannon: husband hasn't been involved in any official searches, is staying in the background. Bonnie Drucker: LE is being tight lipped about the water search but must have had a tip that led them there.

commercial break

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