17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #34

octobermoon said:

O/T This is nosy of me, and no one needs to answer, but why do people have paypal accounts. (I am a dinosaur. Always centuries behind. ) Is it mainly for business?

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Oh me too, a few years ago our daughter who lives in Nevada asked us if we could send her some money, she said just send it to pay pal. We had no idea what that was LOL Still don't really understand it

cityslick said:

It looked bad to me too, but the laid back approach of the judge makes me think it's not going to be that big of a deal. Maybe that's just the demeanor of the judge but all I heard last night up till this morning was prepare for fire and brimstone because he's going to be pissed.

I didn't get any sense at all that it was that big of a deal or that he was pissed.

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I agree~ I feel certain he will not revoke Zimmerman's bond. He might up the bond, but, I don't think it will be a large amount. IMO

cityslick said:

I didn't think the state was really agitated about it either, just basically asked to raise his bond. I agree, let him look at whats there and make a decision.

I guess what I'm saying if don't be surprised if you don't hear the 'boom' that loud if he lowers it.

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JMO/IMO
I think the courts expect the bond process to be honest, efficient. Dragging it out by "remembering" bits and pieces over time to the tune of $200,000 or thereabouts appears quite disingenuous.

Beyond that, if GZ continues to be the poster man for SYG fans, he could be raking in the dough. The judge is going to have to manage those funds such that GZ can't just access them and start a new life somewhere. He could take the money and head south of the border. I'm not saying he'd be long term successful, but GZ is impulsive to me.

impatientredhead said:

Who is to say he isn't living alone?
Who is to say he doesn't think that is the best way to protect his family?

GZ has not been convicted of anything and if private parties want to fund his life and his defense until this is over that is between them and GZ.

If he commits tax fraud that will bite him in the rearend.
But he hasn't committed tax fraud at this particular point in time.

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I don't think things are that black and white. Do you really think there's a possibility of George committing tax fraud?

Nore said:

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Kc was as soon as her 270.thou~ was gone.

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This is what I was thinking about too. Did JB start out working for FCA for free? And then the state of Florida started paying for everything?

grammieto5 said:

Yes, I understand what you're saying, I'm wondering WHY didn't GZ tell his lawyer about all that money before.

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I believe everyone is overthinking this.

Just look at what happened when George started that website. The original attorneys set up an account with George's father managing it. Next thing they knew, George had left the state, started his own website, and had cut the attorneys loose.

The obvious reason for the "defense fund" was to pay the attorneys, and instead, George's father must have given him money to go on the run. The Zimmermans wanted to keep the money for George, instead of paying for his defense. I find that really odd since the elder Zimmerman used to be a magistrate judge and knows good and well how things work in the court system.

If O'Mara didn't know about the money, then it's because the Zimmermans want to use it for their own purposes instead of paying the attorney. It's an odd arrangement to be sitting on money and letting your parents put their house up for bond, but then to me, George is just odd anyway, and feels entitled to whatever he can get.

That's my opinion. The other day someone wanted to debate what a "defense fund" is for and asking why it was wrong for the family to keep the money for groceries, trips, whatever. But my personal feeling is that unless someone is paying an attorney out of it, then it's just a slush fund for the Zimmermans, nothing more. I have no problem with people giving the family gifts of money, but I wouldn't call it a defense fund.

ATTENTION

Mod Note:

I've been on vacation unable to keep up here the past 5 days. I've been reviewing the old locked threads, posts, alerts, PMs, emails, etc... If you can think of it, I've gotten it, heard you and have since reviewed it.

Let me just say -Things are achanging around here beginning right now.

Websleuths respects TRUTHS, FACTS AND OPINIONS from BOTH SIDES OF ANY GIVEN ISSUE.

We are a victim friendly forum however the INCESSANT alerts on mere differences of opinion and those by anyone who dares to paint Trayvon as less than a golden child is going to stop right now. He was a 17 yr. old kid and I have yet to meet a perfect one. Doesn't in anyway mean he deserved to die, however the truth is fair game for discussion and not to be considered bashing.

There is a clear gang mentality forming. CUT IT OUT NOW. This is not an Pro-Trayvon cheerleading forum where all other opinions and facts are to be dismissed. I see so many people with their feet firmly planted and responding to those with whom they disagree with a complete lack of tolerance or respect. I am done with that kind of stuff. Done.

We are about TRUTH & JUSTICE. Sometimes facts will come forward that may not support your theory. That is the way almost every case followed here works. Open your minds and deal with it. Otherwise you appear hardheaded and close-minded.


Guys, I am dead serious about all these alerts. There are literally hundreds every day in every inbox of every moderator here. It is completely out of control. Mods welcome alerts on posts that violate TOS and rules - e.g., posting donation sites, personal attacks, identifying minors, sleuthing non-players, etc... But the vast majority of alerts we are getting are on simple differences of opinion. The alert feature is usually a mod's best friend but it is being abused badly in this case. There will be TOs forthcoming for those that continue to try to steer the discussion by alerting the mere differences of opinion here.


*this post lands completely at random*

Gin said:

JMO/IMO
I think the courts expect the bond process to be honest, efficient. Dragging it out by "remembering" bits and pieces over time to the tune of $200,000 or thereabouts appears quite disingenuous.

Beyond that, if GZ continues to be the poster man for SYG fans, he could be raking in the dough. The judge is going to have to manage those funds such that GZ can't just access them and start a new life somewhere. He could take the money and head south of the border. I'm not saying he'd be long term successful, but GZ is impulsive to me.

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I can't find a transcript yet, but the judge said something at the very end as he was addressing this. Something to the tune of, there have been cases in the past where defense funds are set up, funds are deposited, etc. That's what led him into the 'I may or may not be able to do anything about it'.

It sounds like it's not a foreign issue with defendants collecting 'donations'. I wonder what the precedent is on how it affects bonds and how high one should be based on a amount that's constantly fluctuating.

octobermoon said:

O/T This is nosy of me, and no one needs to answer, but why do people have paypal accounts. (I am a dinosaur. Always centuries behind. ) Is it mainly for business?

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I use paypal mostly to buy things on line that way I did not have to put my banking or credit cards numbers all over the net just at their site. It is free to do this.

Then I occasionally also use it to sell stuff on ebay, make it easy to get payment but they do charge a percentage for these transactions.

francie said:

Sounds like George has gotten rich over the last few months. jmo

:moo:

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Yes. I think of what trayvon went through and no 200. thou......just a grave.lease:

grammieto5 said:

This is what I was thinking about too. Did JB start out working for FCA for free? And then the state of Florida started paying for everything?

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The $250,000 worth of photos that CA sold covered a portion of her attorney fees; however, once that money was spent, she was declared indigent and Baez was paid the same rate as a public defender would have gotten. Cheney Mason I believe was on the case pro bono but I can't remember for sure.


~jmo~

octobermoon said:

O/T This is nosy of me, and no one needs to answer, but why do people have paypal accounts. (I am a dinosaur. Always centuries behind. ) Is it mainly for business?

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Paypal allows you to make purchases online without revealing your bank account information / credit card numbers. You can also use it to send people money (sort of like Western Union, except online).

elementary said:

I don't think things are that black and white. Do you really think there's a possibility of George committing tax fraud?

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No, I was responding to all the allegations here that GZ was doing something unacceptable with his money.

cityslick said:

I can't find a transcript yet, but the judge said something at the very end as he was addressing this. Something to the tune of, there have been cases in the past where defense funds are set up, funds are deposited, etc. That's what led him into the 'I may or may not be able to do anything about it'.

It sounds like it's not a foreign issue with defendants collecting 'donations'. I wonder what the precedent is on how it affects bonds and how high one should be based on a amount that's constantly fluctuating.

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I know people who have set up online donation sites for their custody disputes...

ThoughtFox said:

The state and federal governments bring cases against rich people and corporations all the time. It shouldn't affect the outcome, which is decided by a jury.

What it basically means is that Zimmerman will have well-paid expert witnesses questioning every small bit of evidence, from the possible gunpowder residue on Trayvon's clothing to whether that is George actually screaming for help on the 911 tapes.

And the other thing it means is that the defense will drag this out as long as possible. It will go on and on and on because they can afford it.

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Thanks! The difference from the bolded that I see is that this is heavily politicised and polarising on several levels. How can that not affect the course of justice? For example, what if the jury is stacked with gun owners? It seems to me as an observer that this is not about justice, but about civil liberties, about citizens and their rights etc. and that Trayvon is the human being, the young victim, forgotten in this mess.

Regardless, it will be interesting to watch this unfold. I do find it a shame, though, that the big guns have to back a liar.

beach said:

ATTENTION

Mod Note:

I've been on vacation unable to keep up here the past 5 days. I've been reviewing the old locked threads, posts, alerts, PMs, emails, etc... If you can think of it, I've gotten it, heard you and have since reviewed it.

Let me just say -Things are achanging around here beginning right now.

Websleuths respects TRUTHS, FACTS AND OPINIONS from BOTH SIDES OF ANY GIVEN ISSUE.

We are a victim friendly forum however the INCESSANT alerts on mere differences of opinion and those by anyone who dares to paint Trayvon as less than a golden child is going to stop right now. He was a 17 yr. old kid and I have yet to meet a perfect one. Doesn't in anyway mean he deserved to die, however the truth is fair game for discussion and not to bet considered bashing.

There is a clear gang mentality forming. CUT IT OUT NOW. This is not an Pro-Trayvon cheerleading forum where all other opinions and facts are to be dismissed. I see so many people with their feet firmly planted and responding to those with whom they disagree with a complete lack of tolerance or respect. I am done with that kind of stuff. Done.

We are about TRUTH & JUSTICE. Sometimes facts will come forward that may not support your theory. That is the way almost every case followed here works. Open your minds and deal with it. Otherwise you appear hardheaded and close-minded.


Guys, I am dead serious about all these alerts. There are literally hundreds every day in every inbox of every moderator here. It is completely out of control. Mods welcome alerts on posts that violate TOS and rules - e.g., posting donation sites, personal attacks, identifying minors, sleuthing non-players, etc... But the vast majority of alerts we are getting are on simple differences of opinion. The alert feature is usually a mod's best friend but it is being abused badly in this case. There will be TOs forthcoming for those that continue to try to steer the discussion by alerting the mere differences of opinion here.


*this post lands completely at random*

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bump...

ThoughtFox said:

I believe everyone is overthinking this.

Just look at what happened when George started that website. The original attorneys set up an account with George's father managing it. Next thing they knew, George had left the state, started his own website, and had cut the attorneys loose.

The obvious reason for the "defense fund" was to pay the attorneys, and instead, George's father must have given him money to go on the run. The Zimmermans wanted to keep the money for George, instead of paying for his defense. I find that really odd since the elder Zimmerman used to be a magistrate judge and knows good and well how things work in the court system.

If O'Mara didn't know about the money, then it's because the Zimmermans want to use it for their own purposes instead of paying the attorney. It's an odd arrangement to be sitting on money and letting your parents put their house up for bond, but then to me, George is just odd anyway, and feels entitled to whatever he can get.

That's my opinion. The other day someone wanted to debate what a "defense fund" is for and asking why it was wrong for the family to keep the money for groceries, trips, whatever. But my personal feeling is that unless someone is paying an attorney out of it, then it's just a slush fund for the Zimmermans, nothing more. I have no problem with people giving the family gifts of money, but I wouldn't call it a defense fund.

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The wording I saw on the website that collected the VAST majority of donations said the money for living expenses and trial costs.

I did this for myself so I could track this whole 'real george' 'paypal' thing more easily. I think its accurate, but I could be wrong. I was most interested in the time between when the website was started and when George disclosed the amount of monies in the paypal account to his attorney Mark O'Mara.

Thursday April 5, 2012
George Zimmerman attorneys Craig Sonner and Hal Uhrig work with Zimmerman's father Robert to set up a website and an account at a bank to receive donations for George's defense fund via a PayPal account at the website.

Sunday April 8, 2012
- George Zimmerman registers a domain name with GoDaddy.
Registered through: GoDaddy.com, LLC (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name:
Created on: 08-Apr-12
Expires on: 08-Apr-13
Last Updated on: 24-Apr-12

Monday April 9, 2012
- George Zimmerman launches and unveils "the real george" website and PayPal account to collect funds for both living expenses and possible defense costs.
- George contacts Angela Corey's office twice without the knowledge of his attorneys.
- George contacts Sean Hannity of FoxNews. Hannity acknowledges they spoke but declines to reveal the conversation.

Tuesday April 10, 2012
- Zimmerman's attorneys hold unprecedented press conference to announce that they are dropping him as a client (unless he contacts them). They had not heard from him for two days, and he would not return their calls.

Wednesday April 11, 2012
- George Zimmerman turned himself in to the state police office in Jacksonville, Florida. He is arrested and charged with 2nd Degree Murder and driven to jail in Seminole County. He arrived at the Polk Correctional Facility in Sanford at 8:24 pm.
- Mark O'Mara is hired by Zimmerman's family either Tuesday night or today.

Thursday April 12, 2012
- George makes first court appearance accompanied by his new attorney Mark O'Mara.

Friday April 20, 2012
- Bond Hearing. George Zimmerman bail set at $150,000. (Bondsman will require $15,000 cash and collateral to cover the rest). Family including George's father and wife testify they have no money. Wife says she doesn't know anything about the 'real george website' that it was set up by George's brother, Robert Zimmerman, Jr.

Monday April 23, 2012
- George is released from jail and is picked up by an unidentified bail bondsman driving a white Mercedes in the early morning hours.

Tuesday April 24, 2012
- George, out of jail, and working with his attorney Mark O'Mara regarding the 'real george' website, asks O'Mara what he should do about the PayPal monies.
- The 'real george' website is removed from the internet.
- The PayPal money amounts to between $200,000 and $204,000.

Wednesday April 25, 2012
- O'Mara receives a FedEx package of PayPal monies? (or checks?) from George.

Thursday April 26, 2012
- Mark O'Mara reveals on Anderson Cooper 360 about the existence of the $200,000 + of PayPal monies.

Friday April 27, 2012
- O'Mara tells court about the PayPal funds and says there was about $150,000 on the day of the Bond Hearing.

grammieto5 said:

This is what I was thinking about too. Did JB start out working for FCA for free? And then the state of Florida started paying for everything?

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Oh what a debacle the money was in that case. *facepalm*. But yes, he worked for free, helped her sell pictures to make money that got mysteriously and quickly spent and we never found out how (but got to watch a bizarre hearing about it), and then she was declared indigent and the state paid, but not without counting every penny. Oh, and then it was hard for them to pay the experts and some experts even dropped out, we think, because they weren't going to get paid as much Baez promised them at first. Some didn't get paid at all (at least, when asked, Baez said the check was in the mail), and one, Dr. Lee, was almost paid with the promise of crates of oranges before he dropped from the case (and boy did that become a joke). There were other money issues too, but these were the ones with the defense.

I hope this "oversight" is not the start of yet another money debacle in a Florida court case. Sheesh.

Aedrys said:

Oh what a debacle the money was in that case. *facepalm*. But yes, he worked for free, helped her sell pictures to make money that got mysteriously and quickly spent and we never found out how (but got to watch a bizarre hearing about it), and then she was declared indigent and the state paid, but not without counting every penny. Oh, and then it was hard for them to pay the experts and some experts even dropped out, we think, because they weren't going to get paid as much Baez promised them at first. Some didn't get paid at all (at least, when asked, Baez said the check was in the mail), and one, Dr. Lee, was almost paid with the promise of crates of oranges before he dropped from the case (and boy did that become a joke). There were other money issues too, but these were the ones with the defense.

I hope this "oversight" is not the start of yet another money debacle in a Florida court case. Sheesh.

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I think the difference here is people weren't lining up to donate to FCA's defense fund.