TX - Longview, WhtFem (UP 9863), 41-50, Suicide - Assumed Identity, Dec'10

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Well remember, it wasn't a made up number. She applied for a SSN and got it in Texas in 1988. It was hers fair and square, notwithstanding that she obtained it under false pretenses using the birth certificate of a deceased infant from Arizona. But the rest is along the lines of what I am thinking.
 
So, we have learned some new information thanks to KateB!

The identity stolen was a "deceased child". I am assuming that FLEK took both the name and birthdate of a real person (LEK). If FLEK applied for a SSN in 1988, one can forget about the internet playing a role in that information in 1988. FLEK would have been limited to a graveyard/tombstone, a newspaper listing of obituary, or finding out the information in church, word of mouth, or personal knowledge of the family that a death/funeral occurred.

Do we know any details of the LEK who was born in 1969? Is there value in researching details on the real LEK by graveyards or newspaper archives? What would that value be? I am curious as to location of real LEK. Do we know location?
 
The new photo of the younger FLEK has pierced ears, and long hair in a ponytail. There is a freckle or mole on her right side of her neck that was not visible in the mature FLEK photo due to a higher collar. At least I think it is a mole. The photo pixilates when enlarged. She has those short wispy bangs that were popular in the late 80s.
 
Fin said:
So, we have learned some new information thanks to KateB!

The identity stolen was a "deceased child". I am assuming that FLEK took both the name and birthdate of a real person (LEK). If FLEK applied for a SSN in 1988, one can forget about the internet playing a role in that information in 1988. FLEK would have been limited to a graveyard/tombstone, a newspaper listing of obituary, or finding out the information in church, word of mouth, or personal knowledge of the family that a death/funeral occurred.

Do we know any details of the LEK who was born in 1969? Is there value in researching details on the real LEK by graveyards or newspaper archives? What would that value be? I am curious as to location of real LEK. Do we know location?
Click to expand...

We don't know the location of the real LEK's grave yet but knowing this group I bet we will before long. You bet it will have value! If we knew that we could establish that FLEK was in that location at that time, which would narrow the search field - maybe.
It would also be interesting to know if she ever really attended her claimed college, UT Arlington. If someone lives near that campus it would be nice to check public records for her name and claimed grad year. I bet there is nothing there. Or perhaps she attended under her actual name, you never know until you look.
 
In the new photo of the younger FLEK, SS officials estimate her age in the 1990 photo to be between 21-30. Based on that, the actual year of birth is estimated to be 1960-1969. Based on that info: her year of graduation would be (at best) 1978-1987.
The obituary does not state where she was born but that she lived in Scottsdale AZ, before moving to TX in 1987.

Should we look at Scottsdale AZ yearbooks from 1978-1987? Has anyone already done that? Her eyebrows are very consistent between the 2 photos and a great identifier.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
Well remember, it wasn't a made up number. She applied for a SSN and got it in Texas in 1988. It was hers fair and square, notwithstanding that she obtained it under false pretenses using the birth certificate of a deceased infant from Arizona. But the rest is along the lines of what I am thinking.
Click to expand...

this is what happens when I try to go strictly by memory. in post #388, one of our members received feedback from an investigator and this is what she said, in part about the SS# -

My case involves a woman who is posing as our victim. Her identity is still a mystery. I do have a social security number that was fictitiously used belonging to a juvenile in Oregon. And I have a partial SSN also used which is from New Jersey. If any of that matches up, please let me know. I am doubtful there is any connection at all. Thanks again.

I am not sure exactly what the investigator meant. my sense had been that the imposter LEK made up the number from parts that would have been partially Oregon and partially NJ. I'm not sure that is correct. it looks like she used an actual SS# although not one she applied for under her assumed name of L.E.K. since that # belonged to a living person, i.e. the then juvenile in Oregon, they removed it from the SSDI. she may have also fabricated a second # that was partially a NJ #.

in any evenI think that the birth cert for the real L.E.K. was issued around Scottsdale, AZ. beyond that we know almost nothing about the real L.E.K.
 
webrocket said:
this is what happens when I try to go strictly by memory. in post #388, one of our members received feedback from an investigator and this is what she said, in part about the SS# -

My case involves a woman who is posing as our victim. Her identity is still a mystery. I do have a social security number that was fictitiously used belonging to a juvenile in Oregon. And I have a partial SSN also used which is from New Jersey. If any of that matches up, please let me know. I am doubtful there is any connection at all. Thanks again.

I am not sure exactly what the investigator meant. my sense had been that the imposter LEK made up the number from parts that would have been partially Oregon and partially NJ. I'm not sure that is correct. it looks like she used an actual SS# although not one she applied for under her assumed name of L.E.K. since that # belonged to a living person, i.e. the then juvenile in Oregon, they removed it from the SSDI. she may have also fabricated a second # that was partially a NJ #.

in any evenI think that the birth cert for the real L.E.K. was issued around Scottsdale, AZ. beyond that we know almost nothing about the real L.E.K.
Click to expand...

I remember that post. Nobody is quite sure what the investigator means. Perhaps "partial SSN" means a prefix indicating it was issued in NJ and the rest made up. This could be a case of another unrelated FLEK (FLEK 2?:banghead:). It is weird but it happens. One of the dangers of playing the tombstone identity game is that someone else has been there before or gets there after, and also uses the same birth certificate. There would be no reason (none that we know of) for our FLEK to use another SSN, as she already had a good one used only by her (the one issued in TX in 1988).

In fact now that I think about it that could be what triggered the SSA to start looking into this in the first place.
 
webrocket said:
I will assume that a baby girl named L.E.K. was born on July 18, 1969 and died as a child, actual age unknown. that is the date of birth of the married L.E.R. who is the subject of the SSA investigation.

I was born in the 1960's about 6 yrs before L.E.K. I did not get a SS# until I was about 15 and wanted to get a job when I was 16. I do not have children, however, it is my understanding that it is the present-day norm for SS#s to be issued to infants.

so baby L.E.K. apparently had no SS# of her own so the imposter could have filed an application for a real, genuine and bona fide SS# in her assumed name. it looks like she made up a number which may have been a fatal error although it took years to unravel.

I don't recall the business she was in but it could be that she or her employer got an inquiry from the SSA that her number was not legit. from there it could have caused a cascade of events leading up to a divorce being filed and her eventual suicide.
Click to expand...

:doh: I knew this, really I did... :crazy:
 
Webrocket,
Thank you for posting this information. The longer the thread gets, the more I forget!
So the real LEK birth certificate was issued in Scottsdale? And we think that FLEK lived in Scottsdale AZ prior to moving to Dallas in 1987. Interesting coincidence. Can a member confirm how we know this info?

I agree. The SSN is confusing. We have information that a SSN was issued in Texas in 1988 in this thread (somewhere)? But then the investigator indicated a "social security number that was fictitiously used belonging to a juvenile in Oregon. And I have a partial SSN also used which is from New Jersey." Does this mean there were 3 different SSNs in play at some point?
The mentioning of the use of a deceased child's identity: does that mean the SSN or the birth certificate. Is the juvenile in Oregon the decesed child? Or is that referring to the LEK birth certificate is associated with a deceased child?
Also, a partial number from NJ? I am no math geek but a partial number (based on a 9 digit SSN) could involve thousands of possible identities. I wonder how they settled on an identity fron NJ?
I am sufficently confused at this point. I think we are missing key pieces of info to have this make sense. Just as we were confused last year when the nmus info said the original photo was taken in 1990, and we all agreed that the mature FLEK's photo could not possibly be from 1990.
 
I read this thread last night. It's very compelling. Sadly, I don't think that her true identity will ever be known unless a family member comes forward and a DNA match is made.

This does not look like a woman who has lived a rough life(drinking, drugs, prostitution). I think she left her life behind and created a new ID because of abuse and she feared for her life, or something she did that she was afraid she would be in trouble from LE, or was ashamed of. My bet is that she was abused as a child and fled her family as soon as she was old enough. The new ID was to keep them from finding her.

Just MOO, and as we love a good mystery, we want to find her true identity. But it might not be in the best interests of her daughter to do so.
 
I saw the age progression photo of Beth Gill in the thread. Has she been looked into as a match?
 
Fin said:
Webrocket,
Thank you for posting this information. The longer the thread gets, the more I forget!
So the real LEK birth certificate was issued in Scottsdale? And we think that FLEK lived in Scottsdale AZ prior to moving to Dallas in 1987. Interesting coincidence. Can a member confirm how we know this info?

I agree. The SSN is confusing. We have information that a SSN was issued in Texas in 1988 in this thread (somewhere)? But then the investigator indicated a "social security number that was fictitiously used belonging to a juvenile in Oregon. And I have a partial SSN also used which is from New Jersey." Does this mean there were 3 different SSNs in play at some point?
The mentioning of the use of a deceased child's identity: does that mean the SSN or the birth certificate. Is the juvenile in Oregon the decesed child? Or is that referring to the LEK birth certificate is associated with a deceased child?
Also, a partial number from NJ? I am no math geek but a partial number (based on a 9 digit SSN) could involve thousands of possible identities. I wonder how they settled on an identity fron NJ?
I am sufficently confused at this point. I think we are missing key pieces of info to have this make sense. Just as we were confused last year when the nmus info said the original photo was taken in 1990, and we all agreed that the mature FLEK's photo could not possibly be from 1990.
Click to expand...

ITA on you with this case being very confusing.

Which brings me to, has it already been brought up here that there may be a possibility that K could have been a married name, thus we would then have no idea what the child's last name was ?

The thought has crossed my mind that our lady may have obtained a false ID to escape an abusive spouse / ex -spouse.
 
Beamie said:
Flek? Lek? What is that?
Click to expand...
LEK would be the initials of the child born in 1969 in Arizona. She died in infancy and never had a SSN
FLEK is shorthand for Faux (or Fake or False) LEK, the woman who used the birth certificate of the deceased LEK to get a SSN issued in 1988 in Texas. We pretty much got tired of typing all those names over and over.
 
neesaki said:
ITA on you with this case being very confusing.

Which brings me to, has it already been brought up here that there may be a possibility that K could have been a married name, thus we would then have no idea what the child's last name was ?

The thought has crossed my mind that our lady may have obtained a false ID to escape an abusive spouse / ex -spouse.
Click to expand...

We have no idea why she obtained the SSN in 1988, but LEK was the birth name of the child whose birth certificate she used, not a married name.
 
Magnum P.E. said:
We have no idea why she obtained the SSN in 1988, but LEK was the birth name of the child whose birth certificate she used, not a married name.
Click to expand...

I guess I'm going to have to go back and re-read this thread, but can I ask first how we know this information? TIA :wave:
 
Fin said:
Webrocket,
Thank you for posting this information. The longer the thread gets, the more I forget!
So the real LEK birth certificate was issued in Scottsdale? And we think that FLEK lived in Scottsdale AZ prior to moving to Dallas in 1987. Interesting coincidence. Can a member confirm how we know this info?

We don't know that FLEK lived in Scottsdale. The only association comes from her using the birth cert of a child who was born and shortly after died there.

I agree. The SSN is confusing. We have information that a SSN was issued in Texas in 1988 in this thread (somewhere)? But then the investigator indicated a "social security number that was fictitiously used belonging to a juvenile in Oregon. And I have a partial SSN also used which is from New Jersey." Does this mean there were 3 different SSNs in play at some point?

Sounds like it. 1) The real SSN obtained falsely in 1988 by FLEK using LEK's birth cert, 2) Oregon juvenile's SSN, 3) "partial SSN"

The mentioning of the use of a deceased child's identity: does that mean the SSN or the birth certificate. Is the juvenile in Oregon the decesed child?

JMO but I don't think so. I never heard of a deceased infant described as a juvenile. The Scottsdale LEK apparently never had a SSN until FLEK applied for one in 1988.

Or is that referring to the LEK birth certificate is associated with a deceased child?

I think so.

Also, a partial number from NJ? I am no math geek but a partial number (based on a 9 digit SSN) could involve thousands of possible identities. I wonder how they settled on an identity fron NJ?

As I said in a previous post, probably the prefix indicated it was issued in NJ and the rest was made up. We don't really know what they mean.

I am sufficently confused at this point.

Welcome to the club, line forms on the left.:waitasec:

I think we are missing key pieces of info to have this make sense. Just as we were confused last year when the nmus info said the original photo was taken in 1990, and we all agreed that the mature FLEK's photo could not possibly be from 1990.
Click to expand...

I agree. Getting the pic of the younger FLEK out there may lead to someone recognizing her. Especially that nose, which points to shortstop when she is looking at second base.
 
neesaki said:
I guess I'm going to have to go back and re-read this thread, but can I ask first how we know this information? TIA :wave:
Click to expand...

SSA says that the number was obtained by FLEK using LEK's birth cert. Since the real LEK died as an infant she was of course never married. FLEK later married and was known as LR.

FLEK=Faux LEK, died by her own hand Dec 24, 2010, Longview TX
LEK=Real LEK. Died as an infant, Scottsdale AZ, probably in 1969.
LR= The initials of FLEK after she was married.
CM=Colonel Mustard, as in "Colonel Mustard did it in the kitchen with a candlestick" from Clue. Meaning, constructing a scenario for which there is no evidence whatsoever, that contributes nothing to discovering an identity. Also "going Mustard".

Everyone please now go back and read the original post and the recently updated NamUs profile (#9863).

So let's now try to distinguish FLEK from LEK, while not going Mustard.:seeya:
 
Respectfully, how can we know for sure that LEK was the name on the birth certificate she used? IMO, there is a possibility that she was married before her last name became R. Probably unlikely, but possible.

I looked high and low last night on find a grave for any female that was born in 1969, died in infancy/childhood and had a variation of the name "L." I especially concentrated on Oregon. It's possible that the grave that she found is not listed in find a grave.

I also drove myself crazy trying to figure out what the lettering over the photo is. Is it maybe from a work ID? I looked for prep schools in the DFW & Scottsdale areas, anything that might be "REPD." Arrrrgh!
 
Magnum P.E. said:
SSA says that the number was obtained by FLEK using LEK's birth cert. Since the real LEK died as an infant she was of course never married. FLEK later married and was known as LR.

FLEK=Faux LEK, died by her own hand Dec 24, 2010, Longview TX
LEK=Real LEK. Died as an infant, Scottsdale AZ, probably in 1969.
LR= The initials of FLEK after she was married.
CM=Colonel Mustard, as in "Colonel Mustard did it in the kitchen with a candlestick" from Clue. Meaning, constructing a scenario for which there is no evidence whatsoever, that contributes nothing to discovering an identity. Also "going Mustard".

Everyone please now go back and read the original post and the recently updated NamUs profile (#9863).

So let's now try to distinguish FLEK from LEK, while not going Mustard.:seeya:
Click to expand...

I guess what is confusing to me is that on Namus, the name, LEK is not mentioned. Just the following:

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/9863
SSA/OIG is conducting a criminal investigation into ID Theft of a deceased child.
The pictures on this flyer were taken in 1990 two years after the unidentified female in the picture assumed the identity of a deceased child. Do you recognize this “Jane Doe” female suspect? Jane Doe committed Suicide in 2010 leaving very few clues as to her identity. Her age at the time of these 1990 photos was approximately 21-30 years old. She was approximately 5’10” in height 160 lbs in weight with brown hair and hazel eyes.
Click to expand...
 
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