NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

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GoingByMyGut said:
....snipped....
Would a birth certificate be needed for a marriage license in those days? Would it be needed to get an SSN? A DL? I wonder, given the out-of-the-country birth, how this was handled. She would have been a citizen by virtue of her father's citizenship, right? Whereas her mother may have been naturalized? Did she have an official BC?

In any case, if SL's decision to flee was spontaneous, I doubt she would have had any of these documents in her possession (except a DL if she had one), so she would literally have had to start from scratch. It's possible she could have applied for new copies of existing documents, but would good would they be if she changed her name?

Yes, the best possible scenario, IMO, would be that she connected with a runaway network that helped young people create new lives for themselves, complete with all of this documentation. Not saying likely, just possible -- and clinging to it. (ETA: And it would be one way of explaining how she's managed to stay out of the limelight of the interweb.)

MMQC or ASWDeerHunter, can you tell us anything about these documents?
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BBM: I lived in California at the time, and I did not need my Birth Cert to get my driver's license. But I had a Driver's Ed Cert from school. I did not need my Birth Cert to get my SSN, just applied (but the SSN was not the end all-be all it is now) and a friend just had to file for a name change in the court when she got married (with the reason of being married, but no Marriage Cert required) and used that to change her name on her DL.

COULD she have changed her name. Yes, I believe it would not be hard to do so. DID she do this? IMO, I doubt it, unless she was the type to think on her feet at all times. Some people, when they end up in the "I'm screwed" situation, pull themselves up by their bootstraps and change locations, no matter what it takes. Some won't. Some can't. I believe most decide not to, cry for a while, and head back home. I don't know which type Sylvia was at that time.
 
Did we ever get the name of the Private Investigator? Was the person a local PI?
 
skeet said:
Did we ever get the name of the Private Investigator? Was the person a local PI?
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Thank you for reminding me! I need to email the library and ask for that look-up... I knew I was forgetting to do something and I couldn't remember what it was or even for which case!

Will do that tomorrow!
 
rosemadderlake said:
MMQC: Sounds like Sylvia came to America when she was young. How old were you two when you met?
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We were in the 5th grade then went to Jr. high school together. That is when the friendship really bonded. Same city bus, same homeroom, same band etc.
 
MMQC said:
I really have no clue. Their relationship was a short one.
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Did she ever mention even a first name for him, also did she ever talk about any of her friends from the band, like maybe mention she was going to practice with so and so?
 
rosemadderlake said:
bbm: Oh I am not surprised, there. --A natural reaction. Very scary for a parent...

(I am editing this post because when I reread it just now I went, huh?!) --

MMQC: Do you remember if many people knew she was missing at the time? --Town, neighborhood, businesses? -I remember a story of a missing young woman in my home town in the 80's... I guess I am hoping that with the energy and awareness generated recently and coming out with the reward for information that someone may remember something from back then...
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Mostly the people found out by word of mouth. I called old classmates. My parents circle of friends. My brother's circle of friends. My neighborhood friends. My college friends that knew her and so on. Her neighbor friends too. As for anyone else strictly word of mouth.
 
skeet said:
Did she ever mention even a first name for him, also did she ever talk about any of her friends from the band, like maybe mention she was going to practice with so and so?
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OH, I am sure she did. And I'm sure I knew it at one time. But my memory on his name is just not there. As for the band friends. I'm sure I knew them at one time but now it's all fuzzy.
 
MMQC,

Did she tell you she was going to see a movie that night? Or was the mention of seeing a movie only after the fact from BF/F?
 
MMQC said:
Mostly the people found out by word of mouth. I called old classmates. My parents circle of friends. My brother's circle of friends. My neighborhood friends. My college friends that knew her and so on. Her neighbor friends too. As for anyone else strictly word of mouth.
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So there was no newspaper article, or posters with her info on it? That does make it more difficult, so looking for articles in newspaper archives probably would not yield anything.
 
MMQC said:
OH, I am sure she did. And I'm sure I knew it at one time. But my memory on his name is just not there. As for the band friends. I'm sure I knew them at one time but now it's all fuzzy.
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I think you are doing a good job and trying to remember I can't remember what happened last week ;).
 
MMQC said:
We were in the 5th grade then went to Jr. high school together. That is when the friendship really bonded. Same city bus, same homeroom, same band etc.
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Just to clarify, MMQC, do you mean that was when you met (BBM)? Do you have any idea whether SL came to SI at that time from Germany or from some other location in the states? Thanks.
 
skeet said:
I think you are doing a good job and trying to remember I can't remember what happened last week ;).
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Skeet - So very true!

MMQC: I can't remember any of my childhood girlfriend's boyfriends in HS or college. --I remember a couple of our common friends (we did not go to the same high school but both schools were in the same town). We went to some of the same dances and street parties, concert activities together but the events are definitely easier to recall than the faces and names... It is fuzzy, that's for sure.

Do you remember any feedback or something that stood out when you and Sylvia’s Mom were searching and contacting friends at the time she disappeared? --Any recollection or impression that gave you a sense of her seeking out someone else, a favorite place or country, desire to travel, or someplace Sylvia always wanted to visit, in her future dreams?

Did Sylvia and her BF/F have plans as to where they wanted live after they were married? --Stay on SI? Move to NYC? -Desire to live in the countryside or near the ocean? --Did she want to have children? -Or want to continue on to grad school?

I am thinking about these things because if she did fly away spontaneously and leave her life behind, the only way I see it happening successfully is with the help of someone else. Her desires and dreams could give direction maybe not to her immediate path but to somewhere else where she sees herself.
 
MMQC said:
Mostly the people found out by word of mouth. I called old classmates. My parents circle of friends. My brother's circle of friends. My neighborhood friends. My college friends that knew her and so on. Her neighbor friends too. As for anyone else strictly word of mouth.
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BBM: MMQC, that's the first time I recall hearing that you have a brother. Are you close in age? Did you, SL, and your friends mix with him and his friends? Did you also call your BF/F and his friends?
 
Odyssey said:
MMQC,

Did she tell you she was going to see a movie that night? Or was the mention of seeing a movie only after the fact from BF/F?
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Not too sure about the plans they had that evening. Knew only about the movie after BF/F came by my parents home to tell me after the movie they had a fight and she got out of the car to take the bus home.
 
skeet said:
So there was no newspaper article, or posters with her info on it? That does make it more difficult, so looking for articles in newspaper archives probably would not yield anything.
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Exactly! Nothing was made public.
 
GoingByMyGut said:
Just to clarify, MMQC, do you mean that was when you met (BBM)? Do you have any idea whether SL came to SI at that time from Germany or from some other location in the states? Thanks.
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You know, that was a really long time ago. Like 48 years ago. I can remember her telling me that she went to school on a military base but don't know when or where?
 
rosemadderlake said:
Skeet - So very true!

MMQC: I can't remember any of my childhood girlfriend's boyfriends in HS or college. --I remember a couple of our common friends (we did not go to the same high school but both schools were in the same town). We went to some of the same dances and street parties, concert activities together but the events are definitely easier to recall than the faces and names... It is fuzzy, that's for sure.

Do you remember any feedback or something that stood out when you and Sylvia’s Mom were searching and contacting friends at the time she disappeared? --Any recollection or impression that gave you a sense of her seeking out someone else, a favorite place or country, desire to travel, or someplace Sylvia always wanted to visit, in her future dreams?

Did Sylvia and her BF/F have plans as to where they wanted live after they were married? --Stay on SI? Move to NYC? -Desire to live in the countryside or near the ocean? --Did she want to have children? -Or want to continue on to grad school?

I am thinking about these things because if she did fly away spontaneously and leave her life behind, the only way I see it happening successfully is with the help of someone else. Her desires and dreams could give direction maybe not to her immediate path but to somewhere else where she sees herself.
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I read you loud and clear on these questions but I really can't remember. What does jog my memory is that she was really over the top in love with the biology trip she took to bermuda while at wagner. Being able to swim with the dolphins and snorkel and scuba dive for live specimines. She really loved that. She did want to travel again in that direction, which to my recollection is where she wanted to honeymoon. You know it's only now that I remember that. I guess talking and answering questions and even talking to my friends now about this cold case has made me remember things that I thought were long gone from my memory bank.

I'll post anything else that is shaken loose from this old gray head.
 
GoingByMyGut said:
BBM: MMQC, that's the first time I recall hearing that you have a brother. Are you close in age? Did you, SL, and your friends mix with him and his friends? Did you also call your BF/F and his friends?
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My brother is 6 years older than me. So, no. We did not mix with his friends. It just so happens that he and her parents lived in the same duplex. I had heard from SL that the family next door was splitting up and they were selling out cheap for the divorce. My brother's family was expanding at the time and they only rented and needed a place with at least 3 bedrooms. As a matter of fact one easter SL's ducks were hatching some eggs and she put them in a box on their front porch. She said they could board them at her house and they could come daily and visit with donald and daffy. They had a few geese, some white ducks and a turkey in the yard. Most times the eggs were consumed and not hatched.

As far as my BF/F and his close friends, they were all married at the time. So we hardly mingled as they had kids already and we really did not have much in common with them then. Even after we married we socialized very little as we did not have any kids and never did. Not that we did not want any it happened and I did not carry to term. After 15 years of trying we just gave up. It was not meant to be.
 
MMQC said:
My brother is 6 years older than me. So, no. We did not mix with his friends. It just so happens that he and her parents lived in the same duplex. I had heard from SL that the family next door was splitting up and they were selling out cheap for the divorce. My brother's family was expanding at the time and they only rented and needed a place with at least 3 bedrooms. As a matter of fact one easter SL's ducks were hatching some eggs and she put them in a box on their front porch. She said they could board them at her house and they could come daily and visit with donald and daffy. They had a few geese, some white ducks and a turkey in the yard. Most times the eggs were consumed and not hatched.

As far as my BF/F and his close friends, they were all married at the time. So we hardly mingled as they had kids already and we really did not have much in common with them then. Even after we married we socialized very little as we did not have any kids and never did. Not that we did not want any it happened and I did not carry to term. After 15 years of trying we just gave up. It was not meant to be.
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BBM: I'm so sorry to hear that, MMQC. That must have been very painful.
 
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