Theory Thread - What happened at Pistorius' house on the night of Feb. 13, 2013?

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Perhaps the Silver Woods HOA agreement requires emergency phone numbers and Stander had Carl's number on file? Or,more likely, OP/Carice simply gave him the number?

Now that you mention Carice, who actually did talk to Divaris and Carl - Carice, OP or both?

Whatever the answer, the fact remains that Divaris was called before Carl.

According to Carice, she noticed OP was busy on the phone but wasn't making sense. She took the phone and told the person at the other end (she doesn't know if it was Justin or Jason) to come over quickly, OP needed them, he had shot Reeva and that she was dead. She then phoned Peet van Zyl and Carl. She "spoke to Peet from the beginning". The phone was in the kitchen and she believes it was plugged in, on charge. She later saw a cell phone in the garage on charge but can't say if it was the same one.

According to OP, Carice asked him if she should phone anyone. She called Justin but he doesn't recall whether he spoke to him (and therefore what he may have said). She phoned his agent Peet van Zyl, and his brother Carl "if I'm not mistaken".

Can't find anything yet on who spoke to Carl.

Notice that the sequence of the calls doesn't tally with the phone record, which shows a call to Carl before Peet. Nel even corrects himself to state the wrong sequence (Peet then Carl) when cross examining Carice and she agrees that's the sequence. He asks if OP made or could have made any other calls and at one point establishes that Carice went outside briefly. She also told Roux that she "once or twice went out" before OP was taken to the garage and the scene was secured. Not sure where this was going as we have no evidence of a call to Carl after Peet.
 
I wonder what Divaris knows, too. How rude of Nel not to call him so we can find out. :)

IIRC, when OP had that nightclub episode recently, wasn't Divaris one of the friends that OP said stabbed him in the back? I believe Divaris was on the Prosecution witness list; there has to be a reason. Since he was such a good friend, it seems Defense would have called him to testify how broken up OP was immediately after the shooting. Kinda like that woman (sorry, I don't remember her name) who volunteered to testify in his favor because she wanted to let people know how upset he really was.

IIRC Justin Divaris supported OP at the bail hearing but after that he and his girlfriend, Sam Greyvenstein distanced themselves from him. I'd love to know more about what happened with this friendship and what caused it to end, but I can guess.
 
“Pistorius' aunt Lois told the Guardian that, since that incident, Oscar has remained at home, leaving only to go to church regularly. "At home he's reading the Bible a lot," she explained. "If you've got a purpose in life and you believe in God, it gives you a reason to understand things when they're not going smoothly because you rely on God who is everlasting and always there. Humans make mistakes. None of us is perfect."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...lt-rages-on-in-run-up-to-trial-062750452.html

There's that word "mistake" again. To call murdering your girlfriend and lover a mistake is just so disgusting. If someone shot OP, would Lois call that a mistake too. Methinks not. "None of us is perfect". She makes it sound like he's committed some minor indiscretion.

I love throwing biblical verses to that family. Here's one for you Lois:

Philippians 2:3-11

... in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. ...
 
I'm sorry but the bakers dozen does not even begin to establish that OP lied. You want to convict someone based on the difference between a whisper and speaking softly. Please. It's the screams or nothing and there is significant doubt over those screams. No one has satisfactorily explained why OP screamed for help just before he shot Reeva. That to me is more significant than debates about an led light. I suspect the judge will agree.

Let me try an explanation that night work for you.

Those screams, IMO, absolutely prove that Reeva's death was premeditated. OP planned Reeva's killing right then and there with those screams. OP knew that neighbors had heard Reeva's screams. The only way to explain them was with his own screams. Obviously, if they were both screaming, there must be a reason, no? Said reason, per OP, was an intruder. Surely OP would be justified in killing an intruder, no?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there someone who heard both a man and woman screaming and assumed there was an intruder somewhere? And thought that the woman had seen/heard the man being killed because the screaming had stopped?

Those screams accomplished exactly what OP intended them to accomplish.

They covered his intention of shooting Reeva to death.
 
Please Judge Masipa, don't forget about Frank. :please:
He may be considered one of the 'invisible' which I don't understand but please, he was a witness to their relationship, to the ins and outs of who did and said what, he's an important person no matter his station in life. Frank being a no show speaks volumes to me anyway.


While I'm here, another question that is niggling at me, why didn't Reeva call the police? Reeva had the phone, OP was shouting once he entered the passageway to the bathroom, and yelled, "Get the **** out of my house!" twice. Surely, Reeva had enough time to call the police, why wait?

But if she was trying to calm OP down because he was the threat,, it would be very hard to dial the police while trying to appease an enraged lover. JMHO

I was thinking about that same question--why didn't she call the police?

For one thing, I am not certain she really had her phone with her. OP could have put it there later as a staging detail.

But let's say she did have her phone, then why not call the police? If she truly was just going to the bathroom, and was surprised by hearing him yell at home invaders, i believe she would have called the police immediately.

However, if she had locked herself into the toilet, to get away from OP, and she did have her phone, I think she would hesitate to call the police. I am sure she never expected that he was about to shoot an automatic weapon through the door.

She probably thought it was just a lover's quarrel, and she could calm him down, and wait it out. Calling police would be bad for both their careers, and she probably wanted to avoid that hasty step. Sadly enough. :rose:
 
OP goes to the kitchen to retrieve tape etc. while Carice is left with her fingers in Reeva’s mouth. I believe this is when OP retrieves his 4949 phone which Sam Taylor testifies he normally left there on charge overnight.

The ambulance arrives at 03:41:58. The paramedics announce time of death as 03:50. Just prior to this, OP goes upstairs to fetch Reeva’s handbag for the paramedics. This is before the phone calls to Justin Divaris, Carl and Peet van Zyl. I believe this is when OP places the 4949 phone under the towel in the bathroom. It is possibly also when he retrieves the 0020 phone but he may have had it in his pocket as he stated. Carice doesn't see OP initiate the call to Divaris so he may have plugged it into the charger at any stage in this scenario.

Carice testifies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTYFykD2nRk @ 19:50

Almost as he was out of my vision my dad came in and he’s like, “where’s Oscar?” and I said “he went upstairs” and then I immediately thought, “oh my gosh”, cos when I was standing there I heard him saying to the paramedics “the gun’s upstairs in the bathroom” and I thought he’s going to go and possibly shoot himself. So I immediately ran up and I stood ... I was too scared to go any further, so I stood at the top of the stairs there in the dark and I just shouted “Oh my ... Oscar, please, just bring the bag quickly.” But I saw ... I heard him walking on the, on the tile area and I could hear he went ... and then I couldn't hear him any more. And that was when I was asking “Oscar please just bring the bag” and he came back out and he brought me the bag. And, umm, he handed me the bag and we walked back downstairs.


The tile area includes the bathroom. The bedroom is carpeted.
 
IIRC Justin Divaris supported OP at the bail hearing but after that he and his girlfriend, Sam Greyvenstein distanced themselves from him. I'd love to know more about what happened with this friendship and what caused it to end, but I can guess.

Perhaps after hearing OP's Bail Statement read aloud at the bail hearing, even his best friend couldn't stomach the 24K bullsh#t ... and/or OP asked Divaris to cover for him in some way, to do something devious, to take or hide some item? One must wonder, since OP did call Divaris before he called his own brother.

You know your case is crap when even your friends testify against you and desert you.

But then again, OP shouldn't be surprised - he does have a nasty habit of throwing people under the bus and a history of confrontation and conflict.
 
“Pistorius' aunt Lois told the Guardian that, since that incident, Oscar has remained at home, leaving only to go to church regularly. "At home he's reading the Bible a lot," she explained. "If you've got a purpose in life and you believe in God, it gives you a reason to understand things when they're not going smoothly because you rely on God who is everlasting and always there. Humans make mistakes. None of us is perfect."

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/olympi...lt-rages-on-in-run-up-to-trial-062750452.html

There's that word "mistake" again. To call murdering your girlfriend and lover a mistake is just so disgusting. If someone shot OP, would Lois call that a mistake too. Methinks not. "None of us is perfect". She makes it sound like he's committed some minor indiscretion.

I love throwing biblical verses to that family. Here's one for you Lois:

Philippians 2:3-11

... in humility count others more significant than yourselves. Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others. ...

Hiding behind Money and the Bible is never a good sign.
 
"With respect" in regards to sequence of phone calls. I do find it suspicious that he called Stander before an ambulance. However, I don't see any problem with him calling Divaris before Carl. I am taking it that, when the paramedics declared Reeva dead, they would have asked if they can call anyone on her behalf. Since Oscar didn't know Reeva's parents, he would have thought of Divaris, who was the one who had introduced Oscar and Reeva to each other.


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Hiding behind Money and the Bible is never a good sign.

I'm thinking the same thing. The whole family seems pretentious.. phoney! Unfortunately, I feel (as some other folks do) that OP is going to get off lightly. Just can't see him going to a real prison, or prison at all. I fear there will be strings pulled, technicalities, complications, etc. Hope I'm wrong, but after all, his family is one of the richest, most powerful in SA, with influence and connections galore.
 
The ambulance arrives at 03:41:58. The paramedics announce time of death as 03:50.

~rsbm~

.. can I just point out that, although that is the time the paramedics 'pronounced' her dead, that may not necessarily be the time Reeva actually died .. that is just the time they use when they've done all their checks, etc .. her actual time of death would've been around 3:15am, or thereabouts (I'm sure someone here will be able to give a more accurate time).
 
I'm thinking the same thing. The whole family seems pretentious.. phoney! Unfortunately, I feel (as some other folks do) that OP is going to get off lightly. Just can't see him going to a real prison, or prison at all. I fear there will be strings pulled, technicalities, complications, etc. Hope I'm wrong, but after all, his family is one of the richest, most powerful in SA, with influence and connections galore.

This is how I feel, also. :sad: Now don't get me wrong, I believe with all my heart that OP is guilty of knowingly and willfully murdering Reeva.
 
140731163128-pistorius-murder-verdict-tree-story-top.jpg



Pistorius argues he made a mistake -- that he thought was trying to defend himself from an intruder. If Masipa accepts that as plausible, she will then have to decide if his mistake and his actions were reasonable.

If she says they were not, she'll find him guilty of a crime called culpable homicide. There is no minimum sentence for culpable homicide in South African law -- Judge Masipa will decide the punishment herself, taking South African precedent into account.



http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/08/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-murder-verdict-decision/


:thinking:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQHJkttCEt8
Starting @1:42:20 is where Roux says what sounds like "I cannot stop him, I cannot stop him", apparently to Oldwage. However, I don't believe this is the comment I had heard, I have a picture in my head where OP asks something to the effect of, can they do that? and Roux responding to the effect of, yes they can, so I'm still searching to see if I can find that bit, although it's looking like it may have been in the same bit as the stipulation of the 5th phone that seemed to have gone missing(Shane you still around?). I'm trying to find exactly when Nel first had all the new data evidence entered as evidence because the comments I recall I believe came with that. I will listen to the videos again...

Haven't found it yet(family isn't being very cooperative) but if you watch this session starting around 35:00 or so, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPYfZFquM0 Nel mentions that "admissions" have been made at least a couple of times when entering some of the data and asking the judge to remove pages from the booklet that they won't be addressing after all due to said admissions. I presume that may be a reference to the 0020 having gone missing.

Also I was wondering if there is any indication of this tweet having been accessed by either OP or RS at 10:59pm the evening of the 13th? Could it be the "smoking gun" buried in all the data? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?239205-Trial-Discussion-Thread-13-14-03-25-Day-15&p=10377435#post10377435
 
Val1: OMG! I had not seen that tweet before. Is it a hoax?


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Haven't found it yet(family isn't being very cooperative) but if you watch this session starting around 35:00 or so, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPYfZFquM0 Nel mentions that "admissions" have been made at least a couple of times when entering some of the data and asking the judge to remove pages from the booklet that they won't be addressing after all due to said admissions. I presume that may be a reference to the 0020 having gone missing.

Also I was wondering if there is any indication of this tweet having been accessed by either OP or RS at 10:59pm the evening of the 13th? Could it be the "smoking gun" buried in all the data? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?239205-Trial-Discussion-Thread-13-14-03-25-Day-15&p=10377435#post10377435


What did he mean by that message I wonder? :notgood:
 
I don't get that tweet. That must be a hoax. Look at the time it was supposedly sent. It's not possible, is it?
 
Val1: OMG! I had not seen that tweet before. Is it a hoax?


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I don't think so, it was reported on at the time but has since been "scrubbed", deleted or whatever you want to call it, I'm just glad I grabbed the screen of it. As for the time, if correct and in SA time, then it would surely go to motive imo. That was the bit I had been hoping would have been brought out with the data, or at the least in closing arguments.
 
Haven't found it yet(family isn't being very cooperative) but if you watch this session starting around 35:00 or so, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMPYfZFquM0 Nel mentions that "admissions" have been made at least a couple of times when entering some of the data and asking the judge to remove pages from the booklet that they won't be addressing after all due to said admissions. I presume that may be a reference to the 0020 having gone missing.

Also I was wondering if there is any indication of this tweet having been accessed by either OP or RS at 10:59pm the evening of the 13th? Could it be the "smoking gun" buried in all the data? http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?239205-Trial-Discussion-Thread-13-14-03-25-Day-15&p=10377435#post10377435

He's referring to the 205 statements made by Vodacom as not being necessary as the admissions have been made for the phone data (e.g. both sides agree the data for 5353, 4949 and 0020). He then withdraws the data for 7775, which is Carl's phone.
 
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