When did John find the body?

When did John find the body?

  • Before the 911 call.

    Votes: 7 21.9%

  • The 11 O'clock hour.

    Votes: 6 18.8%

  • As reported, 1 p.m.

    Votes: 11 34.4%

  • He didn't find it, he knew about the accident or was involved in it and the cover-up.

    Votes: 8 25.0%

  • Other.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    32
  • Poll closed .

New Posts

twizzler333 said:
NE as in National Enquirer? Is that where some of this information has been coming from? I don't even read that junk. To me, that is not credible information.

Is there information or transcripts available for statements and/or depositions made by The Fernies or The Whites? Or others involved besides the Ramsey's?
Click to expand...

jameson sold copies of the actual interview tapes to the national Enquirer. The NE then published the transcripts.

jameson did point out some errors in transcription, but there wasn't anything which was terribly material.

The only one I remember was something about the White children wetting the bed or wearing pullups. What was printed by the NE was (according to jameson) erroneous and inferred to opposite of what was actually said.

I don't remember the details, but I do remember the thread discussing it was "White children wet the bed" :)
 
Linda Arndt's deposition
http://www.acandyrose.com/03182000-arndtdepo-04102000.htm

11 Q. Did Schiller, based on the information that you



12 received, incorporate any of the information Steve



13 Thomas gave him in his book?



14 A. Well, from what I was told, there was



15 conversation - yeah. There's a lot of information.



16 Q. That Steve Thomas was the source of, in



17 Larry Schiller's book?



18 A. I don't know if he's named as a source.



19 Q. But based on the information you received,



20 he was the source; is that correct?



21 A. He was the source.



22 Q. We're kind of going down two paths here



23 between leaks and press contacts.
 
Again, BlueCrab, this comes from someone's view of the situation that wasn't even there. This man wrote a book and made money off of it telling his story. While he may be quite accurate in many of his details in the book, you have to realize he got his observations from many sources, one of which was ST and I take anything he says with a grain of salt.

Just the fact that was mentioned on another thread regarding the gardener makes me wonder about ST credibility, IF that information is indeed true. IF the gardener (Brian??) was not investigated well enough as was suggested, then that makes ME think maybe ST did have blinders on to the possibility of anyone else being involved other than a Ramsey and could not do an adequate investigation because of it. I think Eller and ST caused the problems with the investigation and they should feel just as responsible as the actual killer in all of this, IMO.
 
It's true, we have few other sources than the media that was so heavily influenced by the BPD and their early reports. Most of what is in print was designed to incriminate a Ramsey,and provided by Thomas, as you see in Arndt's deposition, there came a time that even Schiller was "tired" of the constant calls. Meetings with Globe reporters, various media, and authors is not the kind of "business" I would expect from a department that was trying to solve a crime.However it wasn't just coming from the BPD it was coming out of the DA's office as well.
It became very odd, Shapiro for example became a pseudo detective, crashing into our chat rooms as jbsadvenger ,imming us, thinking that surely the killer or a friend of the killer, or a neighbor or someone would have information ,enough that he could "crack" the case. His info came from inside the investigation,as well ,he was privy to more than should have been allowed.
While I believe there are many facts within the pages of Schiller's book, I believe , there are many stories that were created based on observations that were handed over three or four times before they hit a page. Ego on the part of both Arndt and Thomas hindered this investigation from the start, they thought ,mistakenly that they were homicide detectives because that's what they were playing that week, clearly they were not homicide detectives and did a very inferior job. IMO
 
Please,

Let's stay on topic. The topic is "When did John find JonBenet's body?"

The media reporting in print what they were told, after they sensationalize it a little bit, and the cops leaking and twisting the facts here and there in an attempt to trip up a possible suspect, take place in every crime. Learn to live with it -- it comes with the territory.

In determining when John found JonBenet's body we don't have to rely on media reports and the behaviors of the cops. We have John's and Patsy's own statements from various transcripts.

John said he moved the boxes and the chair from in front of the door to the train room to go in and look at the broken window. He said he did this between 7 and 9 A.M. John's lying. Officer Rick French and Fleet White were in the train room at around 6 A.M. and there were no boxes or a chair blocking the door.

John Ramsey had to have been referring to a time earlier than 6 A.M. when he moved the boxes and the chair to get into the train room. This means he lied when he said he never searched the basement prior to calling 911. John searched the basement prior to 6 A.M. and undoubtedly found JonBenet prior to calling 911. His own time-line trips him up.

JMO
 
Okay, then WHY did the chair remain in front of that door for crime scene photo shots?
 
sissi said:
Okay, then WHY did the chair remain in front of that door for crime scene photo shots?
Click to expand...


Sissi,

Is there a crime scene photo of the chair in front of the door? I haven't seen one. I only have John's statement that he moved the chair, and I do believe he moved it or why else would he even say he moved it? But I have no photo.

If there is a crime scene photo of the chair against the door, then someone had to have temporarily staged the scene by putting the chair there just for the photo. Otherwise, it wouldn't make any sense. Officer French, Fleet White, and others, including John and Fleet together at 1 o'clock, were in and out of the train room and there was no mention of a chair blocking the door.

John had to have moved the boxes and the chair prior to the 911 call. The boxes and the chair had already been moved out of the way by 6 A.M.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Tressa,

John was manning the phone between 8 and 10, the time period the "kidnapper" was supposed to call according to the RN. John says he went down to the basement alone sometime between 7 and 9, but he would have been missed if he had done that. He was manning the phone and being prepped to answer it during that time.

No one saw John slip away and go to the basement that morning. I think he did it prior to the 911 call. John says he never went into the basement prior to the 911 call, but no father would NOT search the basement when his 6-year-old daughter is missing.

John lied. The chair in front of the door comment proves that. IMO he was in the basement prior to the 911 call and he found JonBenet at that time.


JMO
Click to expand...

Hi Blue,thanks for the clear up.You are right indeed.
 
I might add there is no crime scene photo of the door to the train room on ACandyRose's website. There's a photo of the door, but it's not a crime scene photo and the hallways and the door and the train room have been cleaned up. There's nothing there. The photo was taken long after the murder.

John could have been shown the photo, or one like it, during the interviews and described what was there, such as the chair, prior to the area being cleaned up. Or he could have been shown a plan-view (birds-eye view) drawing of the basement during the interview and described what had been there.

Please let me reiterate that John is the ONLY person who said the chair was up against the door to the train room. IMO he saw the chair and removed it from in front of the door PRIOR to the 911 call because it wasn't there at 6 A.M. when Officer French walked through that door.

John screwed up and was caught in another lie when he said he removed the chair between 7 and 9 A.M. The chair wasn't there at 6 A.M., so he had to have searched the basement prior to the 911 call.

JMO
 
BlueCrab said:
Sissi,

That's the black duct tape on the blanket. One side of the tape is black, but the sticky side is grey.

JMO
Click to expand...

Darned if you aren't right on there Dick Tracy. The sticky side IS grey. Not only that but the grey side is sticky. Did you know that Dick? The other side of duct tape is sticky and grey at the same time. Ya, I bet you did know that cuz that's hard evidence, huh?
 
Duct tape is gray, electrical tape is black- I thought. I don't mess with duct tape too often but I have never bought black duct tape, only gray/silver.
 
It's going to remain a hmm for me, until I can carelesssly throw a piece, a used piece of black tape on the floor in a way such as to show only the gray. I expect to see some black there, even if only at the torn ends. Does anyone have this tape to use in a little experiement?
Okay this color issue aside, I can see how the careless handling of this tape by both John and Fleet would render this tape as evidence almost useless.
IMO
 
Well I'm for option 4. I suspect there is evidence missing, and some of that which is visible, is meant to mislead.

This is possibly what allows people to take sides, PDI, JARDI, BDI, AEADI , IDI etc. Each actually focuses upon aspects of the case that are partitioned by the staging.

BlueCrab:
"John Ramsey had to have been referring to a time earlier than 6 A.M. when he moved the boxes and the chair to get into the train room. This means he lied when he said he never searched the basement prior to calling 911. John searched the basement prior to 6 A.M. and undoubtedly found JonBenet prior to calling 911. His own time-line trips him up."

This may be true, or John may be accused of conflating memory events, or under stress, becoming confused. But assuming he can be accused of being inconsistent. What can we infer from it. Does it place a smoking gun in John's hand?
 
No, no smoking gun, John said he went to the basement between 7 and 9, Arndt didn't arrive at the house until 8:15. What is missing here? We don't have an accurate timeline of police presence. We certainly do not have documentation by either French or White saying the barstool wasn't there or that it was. We can't base any conclusion on what we don't know.
 
sissi:

I agree, you make some good points.
 
UKGuy said:
BlueCrab:
"John Ramsey had to have been referring to a time earlier than 6 A.M. when he moved the boxes and the chair to get into the train room. This means he lied when he said he never searched the basement prior to calling 911. John searched the basement prior to 6 A.M. and undoubtedly found JonBenet prior to calling 911. His own time-line trips him up."

This may be true, or John may be accused of conflating memory events, or under stress, becoming confused. But assuming he can be accused of being inconsistent. What can we infer from it. Does it place a smoking gun in John's hand?
Click to expand...


UKGuy,

Yes, IMO it places a smoking gun into the hands of John Ramsey, but it's somewhat dependant on the report of the first police officer on the scene. That information apparently isn't publicly known.

The 911 call was made at 5:52 A.M. The first person into the basement after the 911 call was Officer Richard French. That was several minutes after he arrived at the Ramsey's house at 6:00 A.M.

John Ramsey said he never went into the basement prior to the 911 call. If Officer French says there were no boxes and no chair in his way when he went through that door and entered the train room, then John had moved the boxes and the chair PRIOR to 6:00 A.M. We definitely know John moved the boxes and the chair that morning because he SAID he did.

John Ramsey's own statement about not entering the basement prior to the 911 call, and his own statement that he had to remove the boxes and the chair from in front of the door before he could enter the train room when he claims he went to the basement between 7 and 9 A.M., places the smoking gun in John's hands. He HAD to have been in the basement prior to the 911 call to have moved the boxes and the chair because they weren't there at 6 A.M. when Rick French entered the room. John lied. And it's a smoking gun.

JMO
 
Yes, Blue Crab, and everything you suggest is based on that "IF", which is something we clearly do not know.
The fact that the picture shown to John, by both Kane and Smit, describing the chair in front of the door, indicates there was "stuff" that perhap was in front of that door all day, and continually was moved back and forth ending where John claims he saw it and where the photo shows it. ..a bar stool and boxes that would have to be moved to open the door fully.
There is another entire scenario that could be created , one that suggests French or White, who were down the basement before John, moved the chair to in front of that door. No conclusions can be drawn, we just don't know!
 
sissi said:
The fact that the picture shown to John, by both Kane and Smit, describing the chair in front of the door, indicates there was "stuff" that perhap was in front of that door all day, and continually was moved back and forth ending where John claims he saw it and where the photo shows it. ..a bar stool and boxes that would have to be moved to open the door fully.
Click to expand...


Sissi,

What picture? Please provide a link or some other credible source that shows or describes a chair in front of and blocking the train room door. Thanks.

JMO
 
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