Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

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Salem

Here are the latest articles on this case:

BeanE said:
Investigator in Falcon Lake 'Mexico pirates' attack is beheaded: sources
Tuesday, October 12th 2010, 9:38 PM

The lead Mexican investigator working to solve the case of an American allegedly attacked by pirates has been killed, and sources say he was brutally decapitated.

Rolando Flores was the commander of a team of police investigating the disappearance and reported shooting of David Hartley on a Mexican border lake last month.

Ruben Dario-Rios, spokesman for the state prosecutor's office in the area, confirmed his death, telling The Associated Press that authorities "don't know how or why he was killed," and that they "don't have any details on how died."

Flores' headless body was left in a suitcase in front of a Mexican military compound on Tuesday, Texas Rep. Aaron Peña told CNN.

The investigator had been out searching the Falcon Lake area for clues to Hartley's disappearance on Monday, but never made it home.

"Shortly afterward, they found his head in the suitcase," Lesley Lopez, press secretary for U.S. Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-Tex), told CNN.


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ded_accord.html?r=news/national#ixzz12CVVr46t
Click to expand...

BeanE said:
Mexican investigator probing lake shooting slain
2 hours ago

Rios said authorities "don't know how or why he was killed. We don't have any details on how he died."

U.S. officials have said threats from drug gangs who control the area around Falcon Lake have hampered the search for Hartley.

Gov. Rick Perry said Tuesday that backing off when confronted by threats like the slaying of the police commander is "the worst thing we can do."

"I think their attempt is to intimidate law enforcement, no matter who they are or where they are," Perry told The Associated Press. Their message is to "stay out of their territory."

"The worst thing we can do is let the terrorists dictate the terms of how we're going to live."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...nRPZBA8z3GreQPLl8SMQD9IQFGVO0?docId=D9IQFGVO0
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Thank you BeanE!

Salem
 
I guess this answers the question of why they gave the life vest back already - they have NOT returned it!

Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez said the vest has not been returned to the couple’s family, even though the blue-and-green garment was featured on NBC’s Today show Monday morning during an “exclusive look” at evidence authorities have analyzed.
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http://www.themonitor.com/articles/hartley-43519-team-vest.html
 
From article posted by hollyblue:

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/hartley-43519-team-vest.html

The sheriff said he has not considered giving Young-Hartley a polygraph test after a CNN reporter asked the young woman whether she would be willing to submit to one. Gonzalez said such a test would be “inconclusive” and “unacceptable.”

“I cannot force her to take one,” Gonzalez said. “I believe her story, so why would I ask her for a polygraph?”

A DPS video that surfaced on Friday showed the Hartleys as a trooper pulled them over just hours before the man’s apparent death. Gonzalez said he had not seen the video until Friday �” eight days after the initial incident. The sheriff said he only saw the video after DPS released it to the press.

“I have very open records,” Gonzalez said. “If I have something, se los doy (I give it to you).”
 
The timeline does not add up for the video. There are so many inconsistencies in Tiffany's story. I find it suspect that for some odd reason she had his truck keys. Why would she have them if he drove the truck? Simple answer is she would not. I am in Federal law enforcement and have to shoot at a range with NON MOVING TARGETS. It is fact that if the target is moving and the shooter is also moving at high speeds in a boat, The shooter will never get a clean shot to the head. Unless I apply all fundamentals of shooting, I will not hit my target.This only happens in Hollywood. Perhaps Tiffany saw this on "Miami Vice". If they did have automatic weapons like Tiffany preaches....There will be hundreds of shots being spayed everywhere. Furthermore if her Jet ski is moving at a high rate of speed, It would be impossible for her to see rounds hitting the water, not to mention hear them. In addition it is insult to injury when she tells her story and she claims she went back to get him. I can not speculate enough how much of the truth she is not telling. It is interesting on her Facebook page she is always posting about her boring life. It is also interesting that she is a fan of Dave Ramsey and goes so far to say that he has helped her. Suspect that there were financial problems. It looked like they lived a lavish lifestyle as well. Jet ski's, motorcycles, Trucks. I could go on and on. Tiffany needs to be investigated, and I'll add some more insight into this;, she indeed is. The authority's do not believe her, They are allowing her to tell her story and run the media so they can build their case. Furthermore, she does not realize this. Tiffany wants the fame of fortune and to live her fifteen minutes as long as she can. Remember Scott Peterson, Susan Smith? Enough said.
 
Tuffy said:
I guess this answers the question of why they gave the life vest back already - they have NOT returned it!
Click to expand...

So was that an old video? The video on The Today Show showed the jet ski and the life vest in her garage.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/10/13/earlyshow/main6953464.shtml

Tiffany Hartley Heartbroken Over Cop's Beheading

David Hartley's Wife Says She Sympathizes with Family of Man Believed to Have Been Killed Because of Search for Her Husband

Tiffany Hartley, David Hartley's wife, said on "The Early Show" Wednesday she is heartbroken that people would kill Flores.

She said, "It's hard because, you know, just last week, I met him and I was sitting right next to him and we were communicating through a translator and you could tell he wanted to help and he was sincere and he was compassionate. And, I mean, he was doing his job ... and my heart goes out to his family, because they're having to go through what we're going through right now."
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<full article at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
ozonetourist said:
The timeline does not add up for the video. There are so many inconsistencies in Tiffany's story. I find it suspect that for some odd reason she had his truck keys. Why would she have them if he drove the truck? Simple answer is she would not. I am in Federal law enforcement and have to shoot at a range with NON MOVING TARGETS. It is fact that if the target is moving and the shooter is also moving at high speeds in a boat, The shooter will never get a clean shot to the head. Unless I apply all fundamentals of shooting, I will not hit my target.This only happens in Hollywood. Perhaps Tiffany saw this on "Miami Vice". If they did have automatic weapons like Tiffany preaches....There will be hundreds of shots being spayed everywhere. Furthermore if her Jet ski is moving at a high rate of speed, It would be impossible for her to see rounds hitting the water, not to mention hear them. In addition it is insult to injury when she tells her story and she claims she went back to get him. I can not speculate enough how much of the truth she is not telling. It is interesting on her Facebook page she is always posting about her boring life. It is also interesting that she is a fan of Dave Ramsey and goes so far to say that he has helped her. Suspect that there were financial problems. It looked like they lived a lavish lifestyle as well. Jet ski's, motorcycles, Trucks. I could go on and on. Tiffany needs to be investigated, and I'll add some more insight into this;, she indeed is. The authority's do not believe her, They are allowing her to tell her story and run the media so they can build their case. Furthermore, she does not realize this. Tiffany wants the fame of fortune and to live her fifteen minutes as long as she can. Remember Scott Peterson, Susan Smith? Enough said.
Click to expand...

:Welcome-12-june:

ozonetourist

Glad you joined up to post.

I see you have strong views and I wonder about LE not believing her, I guess we'll know more in the coming days/weeks.

Make sure you listen to the 18 min audio interview at the link above, it's a good one.
 
In the audio there is absolutely no emotion or sadness in her voice, at times she is laughing and then she talks about turning him over and seeing the wound but she says this without any emotion in her voice. If I saw something like that I would be freaked out everytime I talked about it or thought about it. I am sorry but I do not beleive her story what so ever. Not sure if she killed him, had him killed, or if it is a insurance scam went bad, but I do not believe her story of what happened. No way did she get shot at like she says but not one bullet hit her jet ski. There would have also been blood and brain matter (hate typing those words) on her, her hair, her life vest, and her jet ski if she had tried to turn him over and pull him on her jet ski.
 
BaileyandBella said:
So was that an old video? The video on The Today Show showed the jet ski and the life vest in her garage.
Click to expand...

I know that they are directly contradicting what was on The Today Show. I guess it would have to be an old video that she had?
 
truckengirl said:
In the audio there is absolutely no emotion or sadness in her voice, at times she is laughing and then she talks about turning him over and seeing the wound but she says this without any emotion in her voice. If I saw something like that I would be freaked out everytime I talked about it or thought about it. I am sorry but I do not beleive her story what so ever. Not sure if she killed him, had him killed, or if it is a insurance scam went bad, but I do not believe her story of what happened. No way did she get shot at like she says but not one bullet hit her jet ski. There would have also been blood and brain matter (hate typing those words) on her, her hair, her life vest, and her jet ski if she had tried to turn him over and pull him on her jet ski.
Click to expand...

Her lack of emotion about her husband being shot right in front of her bothers me a lot. I still can't talk about the day my pet bunny died (which was six years ago) without getting choked up, and my voice cracking. If she isn't sad due to being drugged up, it's funny that she doesn't have a problem laughing and joking.

If she is so drugged up that she cannot feel sad for her dead husband, she certainly looks very bright-eyed and presentable in every one of the numerous media appearances she's done.
 
As far as Tiffany having the truck keys (as posted above), perhaps they were in a hidden place in the truck. And as far as coming up with the Hollywood/Miami Vice scenarios, it may not be plausible but it's not impossible, right?

I was sittin' on the fence for a while but I'm over it now. She may not be telling the whole truth, but she saw something horrid happen to her husband. IMO

Welcome Ozone, looking forward to more of your insight. Terry
 
ozonetourist said:
The timeline does not add up for the video. There are so many inconsistencies in Tiffany's story. I find it suspect that for some odd reason she had his truck keys. Why would she have them if he drove the truck? Simple answer is she would not. I am in Federal law enforcement and have to shoot at a range with NON MOVING TARGETS. It is fact that if the target is moving and the shooter is also moving at high speeds in a boat, The shooter will never get a clean shot to the head. Unless I apply all fundamentals of shooting, I will not hit my target.This only happens in Hollywood. Perhaps Tiffany saw this on "Miami Vice". If they did have automatic weapons like Tiffany preaches....There will be hundreds of shots being spayed everywhere. Furthermore if her Jet ski is moving at a high rate of speed, It would be impossible for her to see rounds hitting the water, not to mention hear them. In addition it is insult to injury when she tells her story and she claims she went back to get him. I can not speculate enough how much of the truth she is not telling. It is interesting on her Facebook page she is always posting about her boring life. It is also interesting that she is a fan of Dave Ramsey and goes so far to say that he has helped her. Suspect that there were financial problems. It looked like they lived a lavish lifestyle as well. Jet ski's, motorcycles, Trucks. I could go on and on. Tiffany needs to be investigated, and I'll add some more insight into this;, she indeed is. The authority's do not believe her, They are allowing her to tell her story and run the media so they can build their case. Furthermore, she does not realize this. Tiffany wants the fame of fortune and to live her fifteen minutes as long as she can. Remember Scott Peterson, Susan Smith? Enough said.
Click to expand...

Welcome, ozonetourist! It's great to have someone in law enforcement join us, I hope you'll stick around.

I also shoot regularly at the range, and agree completely with you. I've looked at their Facebook pages, and they did live pretty high on the hog. They traveled quite a bit, cruises, vacationing overseas, etc.
 
On the audio interview she is now posing as a drug advocate. Give me a break . She mentions it may be an option to take a lie detector test. I can't wait for the day for this woman to be indicted for the involvement of what-ever crime took place. YOU WITNESS YOUR HUSBANDS BRAINS GET BLOWN AWAY AND A FEW DAYS LATER YOUR ON EVERY MEDIA OUTLET BEING GIDDY AND HAPPY!!! NOT!!! Justice will be served on this attention seeker.
 
samsmom said:
As far as Tiffany having the truck keys (as posted above), perhaps they were in a hidden place in the truck. And as far as coming up with the Hollywood/Miami Vice scenarios, it may not be plausible but it's not impossible, right?

I was sittin' on the fence for a while but I'm over it now. She may not be telling the whole truth, but she saw something horrid happen to her husband. IMO

Welcome Ozone, looking forward to more of your insight. Terry
Click to expand...


That's the problem, she's not telling the truth, period. IMO of course.

I fear this debate will never be settled. His body will never be recovered, and there will be no justice in this case.

I simply don't believe her, from day one, too bad.... so far no one can prove it.
 
I agree...I saw her doing an interview yesterday, and then again this morning....and I have to say it was unsettling to see her smiling, chuckling, and happy?? And when I saw her again this morning on the Today show....my first thought was "she's on TV again?"

I can't help in beginning to think this is an insurance scam...and Mr. Hartley is alive and well somewhere.

I really hope I'm wrong...
 
ozonetourist said:
The timeline does not add up for the video. There are so many inconsistencies in Tiffany's story. I find it suspect that for some odd reason she had his truck keys. Why would she have them if he drove the truck? Simple answer is she would not. I am in Federal law enforcement and have to shoot at a range with NON MOVING TARGETS. It is fact that if the target is moving and the shooter is also moving at high speeds in a boat, The shooter will never get a clean shot to the head. Unless I apply all fundamentals of shooting, I will not hit my target.This only happens in Hollywood. Perhaps Tiffany saw this on "Miami Vice". If they did have automatic weapons like Tiffany preaches....There will be hundreds of shots being spayed everywhere. Furthermore if her Jet ski is moving at a high rate of speed, It would be impossible for her to see rounds hitting the water, not to mention hear them. In addition it is insult to injury when she tells her story and she claims she went back to get him. I can not speculate enough how much of the truth she is not telling. It is interesting on her Facebook page she is always posting about her boring life. It is also interesting that she is a fan of Dave Ramsey and goes so far to say that he has helped her. Suspect that there were financial problems. It looked like they lived a lavish lifestyle as well. Jet ski's, motorcycles, Trucks. I could go on and on. Tiffany needs to be investigated, and I'll add some more insight into this;, she indeed is. The authority's do not believe her, They are allowing her to tell her story and run the media so they can build their case. Furthermore, she does not realize this. Tiffany wants the fame of fortune and to live her fifteen minutes as long as she can. Remember Scott Peterson, Susan Smith? Enough said.
Click to expand...

Good morning and welcome to WS ozonetourist! Thank you for contributing to our discussion. I have a question that you might be able to answer since you are in Federal law enforcement: if you had three boats pursuing two jet ski's, one ski in front, one behind, with the individuals in the boats armed with machine guns (AK-47's from previous news reports of previous run-ins), if the occupants of the boat were spraying the water with bullets (possible with machine guns, yes?) is it not possible by complete accident and sheer volume to get one high enough to strike the person on the trailing jet ski? If each boat had three persons in it (no, I do not know this, I'm speculating but guessing there must be more than one driver in each boat or what is the point?), that would leave six men free to shoot until they ran out of ammo. I'm no arms expert such as yourself, but that scenario doesn't seem out of the realm of possiblity to me when you are talking about six machine guns firing at the same time at the same target. One web site I saw stated an AK-47 could fire approximately 600 rounds per minute. Multiply that times 6 and that would be 3600 bullets - potentially - spraying the water per minute. 60 bullets per second. That is alot of bullets and a lot of potential for hitting a target in my humble, civilian opinion. If it has an effective range of 1,300 ft (433.33 yds) I would assume they could reach the jet skis given the distances Tiffany has indicated they were away, and I would also assume she might be able to see bullets flying into the water around her given the previous calculations. What am I missing here?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47 - BBM

The standard AK-47 or AKM fires the 7.62x39mm cartridge with a muzzle velocity of 710 metres per second (2,300 ft/s). Muzzle energy is 2,010 joules (1,480 ft·lbf). Projectile weight is normally 8 grams (120 gr). The AK-47 and AKM, with the 7.62×39mm cartridge, have a maximum effective range of around 400 metres (1,300 ft).
Click to expand...
Also from same wiki:
Firing the 7.62x39mm cartridge, the AK-47 produces significant wounding (including hydrostatic shock) when the projectile tumbles and fragments in tissue;[5] but it produces relatively minor wounds when the projectile exits the body before beginning to yaw.[6][7]
Click to expand...
Yes it is baffling that she, nor her jet ski were struck by any of these 60 rounds per second, but stranger things have happened. If David was behind her, and in between her and the boats, his body and jet ski would be protecting her....:twocents: As far as her having his keys, did you read that somewhere or are you assuming she had them?
 
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