JeannieC
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If that was my daughter LE would be talking to me. Not her boyfriend. Even if they are engaged. That is so strange. Do her parents live in a different town or something?
OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 August 2011 - #1
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If that was my daughter LE would be talking to me. Not her boyfriend. Even if they are engaged. That is so strange. Do her parents live in a different town or something?
JeannieC
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In the article they said "Search crews found cellphone battery" That sounds like they didn't find a cellphone. I must have misunderstood the FB post previously.
Katelyn's friends said the items looked like her's but John said they were not. Sounds like her family was there too.
cluciano63
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Someone wrote on the page earlier that her father was at the park, I believe...
Also JC's mother posted on there...just a prayer-type thing.
Also JC's mother posted on there...just a prayer-type thing.
A_News_Junkie
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:waitasec: I went back really far and can't find anyone saying this. Are these posts deleted or can you draw me a map?!
I read it too earlier, maybe it was deleted, it was a whole discussion about a rumor but it was under something else. Some people in town were saying they heard at the grocery store that a body was found, but the rest of the peeps were saying it wasnt a body it was a cellphone battery and a shoe.
JeannieC
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Does FB delete posts?
DimeDetective
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Absolutely. I believe it will be helpful to look at the information we have from as many different angles as possible. Lists like this will enable us to carefully consider everything from all sides. So your "assuming everyone is being truthful" list is as important as any other lists/angles we might come up with. Good work!
ShouldBWorking
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Her family and their silence is really starting to make me scratch my head, we are picking apart JC BUT does anyone think it's normal that this girl has NO ONE coming forward and speaking on her behalf that isn't related to JC?
JeannieC
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I've said the same thing. Why are JC and his mother the spokespersons. Where is her father and why doesn't her mother speak up. LE would be talking to me about the case not to JC if it were my daughter. Of course, maybe they are and we don't know it. Maybe LE asked them to step back for the sake of the investigation.
I believe JC is their prime suspect. I'm not saying he is guilty of anything but I believe LE thinks he is. jmo
The owner of the page can delete things.
delaney
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I think LE knows what the are doing, perhaps they asked the parents
not to speak, as we have seen in other recent cases.
That way when media needs an interview, JC steps up. I think
LE wants to keep this boy talking!
And about the burning of documents, that is so weird. Somehow
JC needed to explain something we haven't heard about yet, maybe lighter
fluid, or gasoline. MOO
And what guy knows every pair of earrings his girlfriend owns?
not to speak, as we have seen in other recent cases.
That way when media needs an interview, JC steps up. I think
LE wants to keep this boy talking!
And about the burning of documents, that is so weird. Somehow
JC needed to explain something we haven't heard about yet, maybe lighter
fluid, or gasoline. MOO
And what guy knows every pair of earrings his girlfriend owns?
JeannieC
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Good post. Gasoline or lighter fluid had not occured to me. Gives me chills!
This guy was so into her I think he might notice her earrings but I could be wrong. I don't think burning documents is weird but the timing is and JC saying she wanted to be there seems either silly or bull. Lets go with bull.
I do find it odd that her friends thought the shoe and earring was her's and he said they weren't. I wonder what her Mom, sister, and Dad said. I'm sure they were asked too.
cluciano63
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I was thinking he mentioned the burning of papers because he had a witness, the friend he was with...so he knew it would come up, as his alibi.
JeannieC
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So did I.
Truthtiger
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Those items were not found at Harbin park, they were found on E. Miami River Rd by Lick Rd, by the bridge. Also i just wanted to throw out there to see what everyone says...what if i said John has NEVER taken a lie detector test but is just saying he has. There is no evidence that he did, if i were him or his family i would make sure that i showed it to the police and the media not only to have people stop pointing the finger at me but to also ease the communities mind. Im trying to figure out what his thinking/reasoning for lying knowing he would get caught. This is why I think they are continuing to let HIM talk and doesnt want her family to talk... He is digging his own grave and building their case at the same time! I was just wondering if there were other cases where someone did this?
JeannieC
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Are you local or a friend of Katelyn's? If you are I believe they are wise to let John keep talking. I agree with you that LE is letting him talk and talking to him for a reason.
Do you know who found the items? I can believe he didn't take a lie detector. LE refused to confirm that he did and I think that says it all. They have no reason to lie.
Yes, I can think of two cases off the top of my head. Susan Powell and Lauren Giddings. Give me a few minutes and I'll give you more.
SchoolgirlShamus
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This list of facts assumes that the statements of the media, law enforcement, Katelyn Markham/John Carter's friends and family on Facebook, and John Carter in media interviews are all accurate. It also includes a few logical deductions (if A, then B) proceeding from these statements. Abbreviations should be self-evident. Let me know of any additions or corrections.
Information
-KM was 21 years old at the time of her disappearance on August 13 or 14, 2011.
-KM had been engaged to her fiance JC for a year and they'd been dating for 6 years. JC's step-sister Megs has known her for 8 years and introduced them shortly after she first hung out with KM. JC said that they were a couple from that time forward. (Not clear on 6 versus 8 years issue.)
-The couple had plans to move to Colorado in a few months, and to marry eventually, after JC turned 25, but not imminently.
-They were moving to Colorado "with some friends" per Megs on FB. The move to Colorado was KM's idea, according to JC.
-JC lives with his mother and stepfather, 0.2 miles from KM's townhome. Her home is en route to his workplace.
-KM attends the Art Institute of Cincinnati, works a co-op job at the school store, has an internship, and has another job at David's Bridal in Tri-County Mall.
-KM was adopted and does not have a good relationship with her mother (per friends' comments and her online journal entries), or, she has a very close relationship with BOTH her parents (per 8/18/2011 JC radio interview).
-KM shares a townhouse with her adoptive father David Markham but effectively lives alone, because he had all but moved in with his girlfriend by the time of her disappearance.
-KM was supposed to move in with JC and his family in 2 weeks. (Per the KM FB group. This statement was not seen by me, but reported by others here at WebSleuth.)
-KM has a small dog who is usually closed in the bathroom when she isn't home, and had a bed, food, and water there.
Pre-Disappearance
-Friends of KM's saw her with JC at the Sacred Heart church festival on Friday night, August 12. It is uncertain if anyone saw her at any point on Saturday besides JC.
-A cousin of JC, Gabrielle K, asserted on FB on 8-26 that "other people" did see KM on Saturday (though she adds she doesn't know who). GK also says that KM posted a birthday greeting on GK's FB Wall at 1pm "that day," presumably Saturday the 13th because that was the day people were inquiring about. (This could be verified by someone who is FB friends with GK...)
-Quoting DimeDetective: "Sacred Heart Church Festival was going on approximately 0.4 miles from KM’s townhouse the weekend of her disappearance (6 p.m.-midnight Friday 8/12, 5:30 p.m.-midnight Saturday 8/13, 3 p.m.-9 p.m. Sunday 8/14)."
-David Markham spent the night with his girlfriend (with whom he'd mostly moved in) on Saturday, August 13th. This seems to be the norm since JC characterized KM as someone who "stays in a house by herself" in his 911 call.
Saturday, August 13
-KM and JC had plans to meet with his parents on Saturday to discuss the Colorado move, but they cancelled because KM was too tired.
-KM and JC had a "totally normal night" with no arguments and no odd moods or behavior on her part.
-JC left her apartment at 12 midnight Saturday (per his 911 call), or between 11 and 11:30 (in all his subsequent interviews including Nancy Grace).
-JC says KM was tired and getting ready for bed when he left. "She was going to bed. She wasn't going out to do anything, so she would've been in her bed." (quote from his 911 call)
-JC did a lot of errands for KM because she was so busy, and she had requested that JC burn some old bills and other papers of hers (too many to just tear into pieces, as he told Nancy Grace). He did so in a friend's firepit that night after leaving her house.
-KM's current paperwork, bills, etc. are still at her apartment. JC only burned old papers. KM was guided in this action by JC's mother who had recommended how long to keep various papers based on a magazine article.
-JC's mother said JC and KM often have friends over for fires, and don't own a shredder, so they thought that was the best way to get rid of papers.
-KM and JC texted back and forth regarding the paper-burning while it was going on, and she said she wished she could have been there for it, adding "but that's okay." He told her she could be there when he burned some of his papers.
-It was raining that night in Fairfield beginning around 11 pm, with an actual storm coming through at 11:30, around the time JC left her apartment and began the paper-burning. It was clear by 1 am.
-JC received KM's last text at 12:52 am. It was a picture message, a photo of a photo of KM, taken by her boss at her internship.
-According to law enforcement, the phone's GPS and the phone itself were turned off sometime around 12:45 am Sunday.
-In spite of what some have asserted, including Nancy Grace, it's entirely possible for picture texts to take several minutes and sometimes even hours to arrive after they're sent.
-JC sent KM a "good morning" text before he went to sleep that night. (per 8/18/2011 JC radio interview)
Sunday, August 14 (Phase I)
-JC did not receive an answer to his customary good morning text, but wasn't overly concerned & assumed KM was running late for work or was busy.
-David's Bridal at Tri-County Mall is 7 miles from KM's home, opens at 12 noon on Sundays and closes at 6 pm.
-JC texted her throughout the day on Sunday, and also tried calling. Becoming concerned at the lack of response, he got permission from his manager at Papa John's to leave work and check on KM.
-JC's workplace is anywhere from 2.2 to 4.3 miles from KM's home, assuming he works at one of the 3 closest Papa John's locations.
-He arrived at her home around 7 or 7:30 pm Sunday evening.
-The timeline suggests he did not call her workplace or contact her co-workers during her work shift on Sunday. If he'd called David's Bridal (which closes at 6) or one of KM's co-workers, he would have learned she didn't show up for work at all, and he would have been alarmed about her well-being sooner than 7 or 7:30.
-He was "worried"/he "had a feeling something was going on"/he "freaked out"/he "panicked" (his words from different interviews) the moment he saw her car parked at home, and the reason he always gives for his fear is that she and her car were supposed to be at work. This is, in itself, another indicator he didn't call her workplace. If he'd called, he would have known she hadn't gone to work before he drove up and saw her car.
-Contradicting himself, however, in one interview he said he expected her to be getting home from work around 7 or 7:30 Sunday evening. (Not clear how he can expect her home from work, and panic because she's not at work, at the same moment.)
Sunday, August 14 (Phase II)
-JC "ran" into her apartment, using his key, and did not notice whether the door was locked. She was gone.
-Nothing else was missing except her red Blackberry cell phone. Her keys and purse were also in the apartment.
-KM's engagement ring, which she was presumably wearing, is also missing. The ring is a zigzag of nine small marquis-cut diamonds set in yellow gold.
-KM doesn't make her bed normally so there was no way to tell if she had slept in it.
-There were no signs of forced entry, a struggle, or anything else unusual, except that her dog was shut in her bedroom, instead of the bathroom which would have been KM's usual habit.
-The dog had relieved itself in the bedroom, so it was evident to JC that KM had been gone for some time.
-At this point JC "freaked out" and "immediately called friends, family, police."
-His call to 911 was made around 8 pm.
-In the 911 call, he mentions KM's purse being in the apartment, so he had to have been inside already. But when the dispatcher asked if he was at the apartment, he said, "I'm heading there now." If we take him at his word, he must have found her missing, left, gone somewhere, and called 911 while on his way back to the apartment.
-JC says KM's father was with him when he went into the apartment. (The first or second time, or both? This is not clear. Did he perhaps leave to pick him up before calling 911?)
-In the 911 call, JC tells the dispatcher that he has been with KM for 6 years and that she's "not deceiving"; also that there were some "questionable people" attending the Sacred Heart festival nearby.
-JC said he and KM have attended the Sacred Heart festival every year for the 6 years they've been dating. They also attended it Friday night, August 12, even though KM was tired and didn't really want to go. (8/18/2011 JC radio interview)
General
-Though previously a fairly regular poster on FB, JC's FB Wall shows no activity between July 27 and August 15 (when he began to talk about KM being missing).
-August 16, 2011 was Katelyn's 22nd birthday and the one year anniversary of her engagement. JC and friends threw a party for her in absentia.
-KM's friend Ashley G. and JC's sister Megs say KC had a stalker, someone who was "obsessed" with her. JC has said more than once there is no such stalker.
-In his August 18 radio interview, JC said he didn't have a lawyer because he didn't do anything wrong. It's unclear whether this is still true 10 days later.
-JC told Nancy Grace he took and passed a polygraph the 2nd day after KM went missing. This was the first mention of it in the media, though he gave multiple other interviews after the date of the polygraph.
-It is uncertain how many polygraphs he took, how many he passed or failed, or who administered them, whether law enforcement or private agency.
-On August 27 in a radio interview, Fairfield's Chief of Police Mike Dickey refused to confirm or deny whether JC has in fact taken a polygraph test.
-In interviews, JC sometimes speaks of KM in the past tense, and sometimes does not.
-There is no evidence of past domestic violence between JC and KM.
-Experts on Nancy Grace's TV show says JC does not fit the psychological profile of someone who would harm her.
-The largest search in the history of Fairfield law enforcement has turned up no trace of KM.
-There is no evidence of foul play or a struggle in her home, JC's home, or their vehicles.
-There has been no activity on KM's cellphone, bank account, or credit cards since she disappeared.
Information
-KM was 21 years old at the time of her disappearance on August 13 or 14, 2011.
-KM had been engaged to her fiance JC for a year and they'd been dating for 6 years. JC's step-sister Megs has known her for 8 years and introduced them shortly after she first hung out with KM. JC said that they were a couple from that time forward. (Not clear on 6 versus 8 years issue.)
-The couple had plans to move to Colorado in a few months, and to marry eventually, after JC turned 25, but not imminently.
-They were moving to Colorado "with some friends" per Megs on FB. The move to Colorado was KM's idea, according to JC.
-JC lives with his mother and stepfather, 0.2 miles from KM's townhome. Her home is en route to his workplace.
-KM attends the Art Institute of Cincinnati, works a co-op job at the school store, has an internship, and has another job at David's Bridal in Tri-County Mall.
-KM was adopted and does not have a good relationship with her mother (per friends' comments and her online journal entries), or, she has a very close relationship with BOTH her parents (per 8/18/2011 JC radio interview).
-KM shares a townhouse with her adoptive father David Markham but effectively lives alone, because he had all but moved in with his girlfriend by the time of her disappearance.
-KM was supposed to move in with JC and his family in 2 weeks. (Per the KM FB group. This statement was not seen by me, but reported by others here at WebSleuth.)
-KM has a small dog who is usually closed in the bathroom when she isn't home, and had a bed, food, and water there.
Pre-Disappearance
-Friends of KM's saw her with JC at the Sacred Heart church festival on Friday night, August 12. It is uncertain if anyone saw her at any point on Saturday besides JC.
-A cousin of JC, Gabrielle K, asserted on FB on 8-26 that "other people" did see KM on Saturday (though she adds she doesn't know who). GK also says that KM posted a birthday greeting on GK's FB Wall at 1pm "that day," presumably Saturday the 13th because that was the day people were inquiring about. (This could be verified by someone who is FB friends with GK...)
-Quoting DimeDetective: "Sacred Heart Church Festival was going on approximately 0.4 miles from KM’s townhouse the weekend of her disappearance (6 p.m.-midnight Friday 8/12, 5:30 p.m.-midnight Saturday 8/13, 3 p.m.-9 p.m. Sunday 8/14)."
-David Markham spent the night with his girlfriend (with whom he'd mostly moved in) on Saturday, August 13th. This seems to be the norm since JC characterized KM as someone who "stays in a house by herself" in his 911 call.
Saturday, August 13
-KM and JC had plans to meet with his parents on Saturday to discuss the Colorado move, but they cancelled because KM was too tired.
-KM and JC had a "totally normal night" with no arguments and no odd moods or behavior on her part.
-JC left her apartment at 12 midnight Saturday (per his 911 call), or between 11 and 11:30 (in all his subsequent interviews including Nancy Grace).
-JC says KM was tired and getting ready for bed when he left. "She was going to bed. She wasn't going out to do anything, so she would've been in her bed." (quote from his 911 call)
-JC did a lot of errands for KM because she was so busy, and she had requested that JC burn some old bills and other papers of hers (too many to just tear into pieces, as he told Nancy Grace). He did so in a friend's firepit that night after leaving her house.
-KM's current paperwork, bills, etc. are still at her apartment. JC only burned old papers. KM was guided in this action by JC's mother who had recommended how long to keep various papers based on a magazine article.
-JC's mother said JC and KM often have friends over for fires, and don't own a shredder, so they thought that was the best way to get rid of papers.
-KM and JC texted back and forth regarding the paper-burning while it was going on, and she said she wished she could have been there for it, adding "but that's okay." He told her she could be there when he burned some of his papers.
-It was raining that night in Fairfield beginning around 11 pm, with an actual storm coming through at 11:30, around the time JC left her apartment and began the paper-burning. It was clear by 1 am.
-JC received KM's last text at 12:52 am. It was a picture message, a photo of a photo of KM, taken by her boss at her internship.
-According to law enforcement, the phone's GPS and the phone itself were turned off sometime around 12:45 am Sunday.
-In spite of what some have asserted, including Nancy Grace, it's entirely possible for picture texts to take several minutes and sometimes even hours to arrive after they're sent.
-JC sent KM a "good morning" text before he went to sleep that night. (per 8/18/2011 JC radio interview)
Sunday, August 14 (Phase I)
-JC did not receive an answer to his customary good morning text, but wasn't overly concerned & assumed KM was running late for work or was busy.
-David's Bridal at Tri-County Mall is 7 miles from KM's home, opens at 12 noon on Sundays and closes at 6 pm.
-JC texted her throughout the day on Sunday, and also tried calling. Becoming concerned at the lack of response, he got permission from his manager at Papa John's to leave work and check on KM.
-JC's workplace is anywhere from 2.2 to 4.3 miles from KM's home, assuming he works at one of the 3 closest Papa John's locations.
-He arrived at her home around 7 or 7:30 pm Sunday evening.
-The timeline suggests he did not call her workplace or contact her co-workers during her work shift on Sunday. If he'd called David's Bridal (which closes at 6) or one of KM's co-workers, he would have learned she didn't show up for work at all, and he would have been alarmed about her well-being sooner than 7 or 7:30.
-He was "worried"/he "had a feeling something was going on"/he "freaked out"/he "panicked" (his words from different interviews) the moment he saw her car parked at home, and the reason he always gives for his fear is that she and her car were supposed to be at work. This is, in itself, another indicator he didn't call her workplace. If he'd called, he would have known she hadn't gone to work before he drove up and saw her car.
-Contradicting himself, however, in one interview he said he expected her to be getting home from work around 7 or 7:30 Sunday evening. (Not clear how he can expect her home from work, and panic because she's not at work, at the same moment.)
Sunday, August 14 (Phase II)
-JC "ran" into her apartment, using his key, and did not notice whether the door was locked. She was gone.
-Nothing else was missing except her red Blackberry cell phone. Her keys and purse were also in the apartment.
-KM's engagement ring, which she was presumably wearing, is also missing. The ring is a zigzag of nine small marquis-cut diamonds set in yellow gold.
-KM doesn't make her bed normally so there was no way to tell if she had slept in it.
-There were no signs of forced entry, a struggle, or anything else unusual, except that her dog was shut in her bedroom, instead of the bathroom which would have been KM's usual habit.
-The dog had relieved itself in the bedroom, so it was evident to JC that KM had been gone for some time.
-At this point JC "freaked out" and "immediately called friends, family, police."
-His call to 911 was made around 8 pm.
-In the 911 call, he mentions KM's purse being in the apartment, so he had to have been inside already. But when the dispatcher asked if he was at the apartment, he said, "I'm heading there now." If we take him at his word, he must have found her missing, left, gone somewhere, and called 911 while on his way back to the apartment.
-JC says KM's father was with him when he went into the apartment. (The first or second time, or both? This is not clear. Did he perhaps leave to pick him up before calling 911?)
-In the 911 call, JC tells the dispatcher that he has been with KM for 6 years and that she's "not deceiving"; also that there were some "questionable people" attending the Sacred Heart festival nearby.
-JC said he and KM have attended the Sacred Heart festival every year for the 6 years they've been dating. They also attended it Friday night, August 12, even though KM was tired and didn't really want to go. (8/18/2011 JC radio interview)
General
-Though previously a fairly regular poster on FB, JC's FB Wall shows no activity between July 27 and August 15 (when he began to talk about KM being missing).
-August 16, 2011 was Katelyn's 22nd birthday and the one year anniversary of her engagement. JC and friends threw a party for her in absentia.
-KM's friend Ashley G. and JC's sister Megs say KC had a stalker, someone who was "obsessed" with her. JC has said more than once there is no such stalker.
-In his August 18 radio interview, JC said he didn't have a lawyer because he didn't do anything wrong. It's unclear whether this is still true 10 days later.
-JC told Nancy Grace he took and passed a polygraph the 2nd day after KM went missing. This was the first mention of it in the media, though he gave multiple other interviews after the date of the polygraph.
-It is uncertain how many polygraphs he took, how many he passed or failed, or who administered them, whether law enforcement or private agency.
-On August 27 in a radio interview, Fairfield's Chief of Police Mike Dickey refused to confirm or deny whether JC has in fact taken a polygraph test.
-In interviews, JC sometimes speaks of KM in the past tense, and sometimes does not.
-There is no evidence of past domestic violence between JC and KM.
-Experts on Nancy Grace's TV show says JC does not fit the psychological profile of someone who would harm her.
-The largest search in the history of Fairfield law enforcement has turned up no trace of KM.
-There is no evidence of foul play or a struggle in her home, JC's home, or their vehicles.
-There has been no activity on KM's cellphone, bank account, or credit cards since she disappeared.
Chili Fries
Man Sleuth
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- 247
Katelyn's dad has talked to the press. He made comments at the vigil a while ago (and sounded understandably distraught):
http://www.fox19.com/story/15300630/prayer-vigil-held-for-missing-fairfield-woman
He also made comments to the press yesterday:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110827/NEWS01/108280346/Missing-woman-s-friends-keep-searching?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I don't think LE has told him not to talk, I think it's just that the media has been more interested in JC.
At first I didn't think anything seemed out of the ordinary about JC. But the interview he did where he kept saying he wasn't trying to force her to move to Colorado or get married...that caught my attention. Maybe he just worded things that way because that was something LE had questioned him about and made him feel pressured or because people in the community had been talking about him forcing her to get married and move to Colorado. He could be innocent and was just responding to stuff he keeps hearing.
I still am very much on the fence about him and am definitely willing to wait to see what happens before accusing him. I know we've often seen boyfriends and husbands accused when they are innocent. I also obviously know that significant others have a high incidence of guilt when women go missing but right now there's just not enough to tell one way or another as far as JC. I just hope for answers for all Katelyn's loved ones.
http://www.fox19.com/story/15300630/prayer-vigil-held-for-missing-fairfield-woman
He also made comments to the press yesterday:
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110827/NEWS01/108280346/Missing-woman-s-friends-keep-searching?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE
I don't think LE has told him not to talk, I think it's just that the media has been more interested in JC.
At first I didn't think anything seemed out of the ordinary about JC. But the interview he did where he kept saying he wasn't trying to force her to move to Colorado or get married...that caught my attention. Maybe he just worded things that way because that was something LE had questioned him about and made him feel pressured or because people in the community had been talking about him forcing her to get married and move to Colorado. He could be innocent and was just responding to stuff he keeps hearing.
I still am very much on the fence about him and am definitely willing to wait to see what happens before accusing him. I know we've often seen boyfriends and husbands accused when they are innocent. I also obviously know that significant others have a high incidence of guilt when women go missing but right now there's just not enough to tell one way or another as far as JC. I just hope for answers for all Katelyn's loved ones.
DianaElaine
Well-Known Member
MOO ... Admin: if this shouldn't be listed, please feel free to remove.
People who COULD be involved, even though they have been checked out, since LE doesn't always get the right person, the first time:
1) Boyfriend
2) Father
3) Mother
4) Boss
5) Stranger
6) Someone who obsessed about her or admired her from afar.
7) Neighbor
Anybody else?
People who COULD be involved, even though they have been checked out, since LE doesn't always get the right person, the first time:
1) Boyfriend
2) Father
3) Mother
4) Boss
5) Stranger
6) Someone who obsessed about her or admired her from afar.
7) Neighbor
Anybody else?
- Status