CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

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dotr: I'm drawing a complete blank here - who is the A to whom you refer?

Thanks......

Sorry, that was not very clear- I meant Audrey, but now that you mention it, I am not sure why I added it in the first place, meantime- since I have it right here, a video I found about Camaros, in all of them not unlike other cars the emphasis seems to be how macho guys get girls with them- times have changed , glad that AG got to enjoy her camaro...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2228853272890098159#

This recent video, shows a young man (mechanic) longing for a woman who comes to the garage with a camaro, but by the end of the video-he sleeps with her and thus, he becomes the driver of the camaro and she- his adoring passenger....
[video=youtube;YjHTyc6jtP8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjHTyc6jtP8[/video]
 
1st post - Hello all. I live in Ancaster. I have a theory about motive and opportunity in this case which I'll elaborate on later. I need more details on AG's smoking habits. I'd be grateful if PK can provide some responses.

- Was AG a heavy smoker? Approx. how many packs per day?
- Did AG always smoke outside of her house? You previously stated AG would smoke in the garage with the garage door up.
- What kind of cigarettes did AG smoke? Did she ever purchase 6Ns smokes (Sago's, etc)?
- Did she ever drive out to 6Ns to purchase smokes? eg. Caledonia smoke shacks, Oshweken, etc?
- As a night owl, would AG ever go outside for a smoke in the middle of the night?
- Did you ever arrive at the house and find the garage door up with AG in the house? Did she ever forget to close the garage door before turning in for the night.

1010011010
 
1st post - Hello all. I live in Ancaster. I have a theory about motive and opportunity in this case which I'll elaborate on later. I need more details on AG's smoking habits. I'd be grateful if PK can provide some responses.

- Was AG a heavy smoker? Approx. how many packs per day?
- Did AG always smoke outside of her house? You previously stated AG would smoke in the garage with the garage door up.
- What kind of cigarettes did AG smoke? Did she ever purchase 6Ns smokes (Sago's, etc)?
- Did she ever drive out to 6Ns to purchase smokes? eg. Caledonia smoke shacks, Oshweken, etc?
- As a night owl, would AG ever go outside for a smoke in the middle of the night?
- Did you ever arrive at the house and find the garage door up with AG in the house? Did she ever forget to close the garage door before turning in for the night.

1010011010

Welcome to Websleuth 1010011010 ! Are you wondering about the smoking in part because AG used to keep her pack in her sweatpant waistband and those pants were ripped? I wondered if someone went to grab them and worse ensued...maybe AG's smokes or lighter was considered a "trophy'? anyway curious to know what you think!
 
1st post - Hello all. I live in Ancaster. I have a theory about motive and opportunity in this case which I'll elaborate on later. I need more details on AG's smoking habits. I'd be grateful if PK can provide some responses.

- Was AG a heavy smoker? Approx. how many packs per day?
- Did AG always smoke outside of her house? You previously stated AG would smoke in the garage with the garage door up.
- What kind of cigarettes did AG smoke? Did she ever purchase 6Ns smokes (Sago's, etc)?
- Did she ever drive out to 6Ns to purchase smokes? eg. Caledonia smoke shacks, Oshweken, etc?
- As a night owl, would AG ever go outside for a smoke in the middle of the night?
- Did you ever arrive at the house and find the garage door up with AG in the house? Did she ever forget to close the garage door before turning in for the night.

1010011010

Welcome 666! I will patiently wait to hear your theory. All theories are welcome here!
 
Have these questions been answered yet:

- did LE recover the murder weapon(s)?
- was Audrey's car driven in the 24 hours prior to her death?
- did Audrey call her coffee group to say she wouldn't be there on the final Wednesday or did she just fail to show up? (the articles don't seem to say either way - or, I missed it)
- did PK touch the body in any way other than to check for a pulse as directed by 911?
- what exactly does LE have regarding DNA?
- what did LE have as evidence against DS other than the fact that he's "different" and he was in the barn area?
- what was the origin of the 'Amazing Grace' email - did Audrey Google it and then decide to send it to some people?
- did the people who received 'Amazing Grace' think it was odd for Audrey to send something of that nature?

Still far too many questions......:maddening:
Excellent questions NSU and I also wondered if LE were able to take AG's camera into their possession for processing (fingerprints and other possible DNA) and possibly pic's were on the camera that could provide leads. imo
 
I'm thinking sudden out-of-control rage over a disagreement.

I can see that happening, but the part I do not get is the 'sexual component"- and that AG was found on her back, eyes open- but I would imagine if it was someone AG knew well, that they would have covered her face and not need to take a" trophy"
 
New article.
http://www.thespec.com/opinion/editorial/article/597929--no-answers-many-questions-in-gleave-case
"Even with modern technology and awesome investigative resources, things often go wrong. Things went wrong in the Audrey Gleave case. Terribly wrong.

For the time being at least, the case leaves more questions than answers. As depicted in the just-completed four-part Jon Wells feature in The Spectator, it’s a story of a brutal killing, without obvious motive. And it touches us in ways many of these stories do not. She wasn’t on the wrong side of the law. She wasn’t living a high-risk lifestyle, as far as anyone can determine. She was an ordinary, if somewhat idiosyncratic, personality living out her retirement years in the house she and her estranged husband built. She could be our mother, grandmother, favourite aunt or friend.

Was she targeted by some predator? Was she simply in the wrong place at the wrong time? Is a killer at large and a threat in that semirural community or to Hamilton in general?"
 
I can see that happening, but the part I do not get is the 'sexual component"- and that AG was found on her back, eyes open- but I would imagine if it was someone AG knew well, that they would have covered her face and not need to take a" trophy"

If LE had said "rape" as opposed to "sexual component" I'd totally think it was someone she didn't know. But I can see some acquaintance going nuts and letting his rage morph into some sort of sexual mutilation. Though the part about the trophy does make one think of serial killer. The Spec story wasn't very clear on that trophy aspect.

But I'm inclined to agree with PK's thought that she was expecting someone. He said (the Spec said) when he'd go there, and enter the garage, she would meet him in there. It was always that way. In those times, she probably left her purse inside. That could explain her being in the garage, and the purse (and perhaps the dogs) inside.

I've wondered if she made an oral arrangement at some point when she was out, to have someone drop something off. Like if an independent shopkeeper was out of something, but said he could drop it off later.
 
Just an aside on southern Ontario rural communities. About 10 years ago I was talking to an LE officer who told me, in the summer the fields are crawling with transients.
I often see unsavory looking characters trying to hitch rides on rural roads, and
I'm always hearing about theft (car and home break-ins) in my area.

We can only imagine that with cameras everywhere in the cities, thieves and killers are happily heading for the sticks.
 
Hi 1010011010! More new people all the time! Audrey - you have many people searching for justice.

:welcome::welcome4::welcome:
 
1st post - Hello all. I live in Ancaster. I have a theory about motive and opportunity in this case which I'll elaborate on later. I need more details on AG's smoking habits. I'd be grateful if PK can provide some responses.

- Was AG a heavy smoker? Approx. how many packs per day?
- Did AG always smoke outside of her house? You previously stated AG would smoke in the garage with the garage door up.
- What kind of cigarettes did AG smoke? Did she ever purchase 6Ns smokes (Sago's, etc)?
- Did she ever drive out to 6Ns to purchase smokes? eg. Caledonia smoke shacks, Oshweken, etc?
- As a night owl, would AG ever go outside for a smoke in the middle of the night?
- Did you ever arrive at the house and find the garage door up with AG in the house? Did she ever forget to close the garage door before turning in for the night.

1010011010

The question I've highlighted in the quoted post is also something I've been wanting to ask but keep forgetting! (For PK when he returns!)
 
Copied from the new link dotr posted. This part really struck me:

Was she targeted by some predator? Was she simply in the wrong place at the wrong time? Is a killer at large and a threat in that semirural community or to Hamilton in general? At this point, there’s a better than even chance we won’t get answers to those questions, since the case is getting increasingly cold, the only suspect released due to a lack of sufficient evidence. David Scott, a troubled, often homeless man battling schizophrenia, was identified as a prime suspect early in the investigation, but released when lack of evidence — including DNA — made the Crown utter the dreaded indictment: “No reasonable prospect of conviction.”

Police don’t talk about murder investigations, certainly not unresolved ones, and certainly not ones where the case may have been mishandled to some degree. So those questions linger. Why the intensive, nearly exclusive focus on Scott? Why weren’t other suspects scrutinized to the same extent, even if just to rule them out? Granted, Scott’s demeanour, location and history were cause for suspicion. But standard investigative procedure is to compile massive evidence that will stand the scrutiny of a trial, and that didn’t happen in this case. How early in the process was the Crown’s office consulted? Because the standard of proof is higher for the Crown than for police, it makes sense for that higher standard to be applied early in an investigation, to identify weaknesses in the case early. Again, that didn’t happen in this case, and ultimately the Crown acknowledged the evidence was insufficient. So it was back to square one, or as Wells put it, “perhaps even further back than that.”

That meant starting from scratch on an ice-cold trail. It meant re-interviewing witnesses who have now had many months to forget relevant information, or to be influenced by subsequent events, so their recollections and testimony will almost certainly be weaker. It meant much more time has elapsed for the perpetrator to cover his tracks, perhaps even lose himself, and/or to strike again. Hopefully, Audrey Gleave’s story won’t end here. She deserves better, and so do the rest of us.

Howard Elliott

 
I bumped into my friend following is some points of interest:
-All important documents were found in AGs purse. There was no banking information in her purse, nor could LV find banking records in the house. LV had to go to major branches making enquiries and finally found AG banked at the Teachers Credit Union.
-AG paid for everything (including groceries) with a credit card, she did not debit. Once/month a withdrawl was made for several hundred dollars. She questioned what she would need that money for. (me assuming she paid PK in cash)
-LV purchased a new car and LE followed up asking questions where the monies came from etc. So clearly everyone is suspect.
-They were all shocked to find out about prior marriages over the several years she knew AG only fartface and AG mother in law was ever mentioned.
HER speculation/questions.
-something or someone made AG as paranoid as she was
-was AG in a witness protection program?
-was AG a CIA at some time? (me thinking of Chalk River)
-was AG being bribed, lending a helping hand (cash) to someone (ie: a secret pregnancy, child given up, recently reconnected?)

ummm...that's all I remember right now.
 
I bumped into my friend following is some points of interest:
-All important documents were found in AGs purse. There was no banking information in her purse, nor could LV find banking records in the house. LV had to go to major branches making enquiries and finally found AG banked at the Teachers Credit Union.
-AG paid for everything (including groceries) with a credit card, she did not debit. Once/month a withdrawl was made for several hundred dollars. She questioned what she would need that money for. (me assuming she paid PK in cash)
-LV purchased a new car and LE followed up asking questions where the monies came from etc. So clearly everyone is suspect.
-They were all shocked to find out about prior marriages over the several years she knew AG only fartface and AG mother in law was ever mentioned.
HER speculation/questions.
-something or someone made AG as paranoid as she was
-was AG in a witness protection program?
-was AG a CIA at some time? (me thinking of Chalk River)
-was AG being bribed, lending a helping hand (cash) to someone (ie: a secret pregnancy, child given up, recently reconnected?)


ummm...that's all I remember right now.

Wow - OK, I highlighted the points in the quoted post which are of interest to me (of course, the whole thing is of interest to me!:))

So many people seem to have so many questions. And thoughts. And theories. :twocents:
 
I bumped into my friend following is some points of interest:
-All important documents were found in AGs purse. There was no banking information in her purse, nor could LV find banking records in the house. LV had to go to major branches making enquiries and finally found AG banked at the Teachers Credit Union.
-AG paid for everything (including groceries) with a credit card, she did not debit. Once/month a withdrawl was made for several hundred dollars. She questioned what she would need that money for. (me assuming she paid PK in cash)
-LV purchased a new car and LE followed up asking questions where the monies came from etc. So clearly everyone is suspect.
-They were all shocked to find out about prior marriages over the several years she knew AG only fartface and AG mother in law was ever mentioned.
HER speculation/questions.
-something or someone made AG as paranoid as she was
-was AG in a witness protection program?
-was AG a CIA at some time? (me thinking of Chalk River)
-was AG being bribed, lending a helping hand (cash) to someone (ie: a secret pregnancy, child given up, recently reconnected?)

ummm...that's all I remember right now.

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for the post!

I'd wondered about a CIA or CSIS connection too. Those folks often do have regular jobs as a cover. A woman familiar with nuclear info would be a great asset, especially way back when things were much more male dominated.

I wondered about the child thing to, and had recently found this (a child born to an AG and given up in 1969, apparently in the state of PA).

http://forums.adoption.com/sealed-records/143378-attention-birth-mom-dads-8.html

Following it, I think I saw she was only 16 at the time, but that could have been a cover, some bs so no-one would connect the poster to our AG. I think when I clicked "all posts" by the GA in that forum there was mention of the child as having reddish hair. PA is not far from here...and a good place to go and have a baby in secrecy).
 
I wonder if AG usually gave funds/food to a group or person at Christmas time and her ill health gave reason for someone to have to pick it up or "to go get it".Speaking of food, some people get mighty touchy about having a special (cake) recipe handed to someone else, especially if there is a chance that cake may appear in a public bakery..
 
...just a follow up. Went a little further into the given-up-baby thing (my last post) and it does appear to be a different AG. Unless there was some dis-information set up on other sites to thwart making a connection.
 
We all seem to be on the same page here (no pun intended).

1. I've been wondering about a child in AG's past (either given up for adoption or aborted). This would explain why Audrey began University later than we usually think one would begin University in Ontario.

Question for PK - was there any indication (photos, etc.) of a child in Audrey's past?

2. And the giving to charities aspect - I would imagine it would be to animal charities. Yes, someone could have been sent to pick up the money donation since Audrey wasn't feeling well. (But then again, you'd think that Audrey would know the person picking up the donation.)

Just thinking out loud here.......
 
Greetings fellow page dwellers :)

Some other thoughts:

What would AG do if someone came to the door unannounced? Would she motion them to the garage, and then open the door herself from the inside. Or would she deny any access? (Maybe this has been addressed already....?)

Were there any "religion peddlers" in the area at that time? (We get them here, weekly...
Just had some yesterday. I don't answer...anymore)

I wondering if the dogs would bark well in advance if someone was approaching the house. I assume, like mine, they would. If I were a stranger up to no good, I'd be tempted to pick another house and leave, once I heard the dogs. Unless I knew how to handle those dogs, or had info that they would be handled by AG, to prevent attack.
 
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