trial day 41: the defense continues its case in chief #122

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
Because ALV has had a lot of experience with liars. Abused women lie to everyone all the time.

Because ALV has had a lot of experience with psychopaths. Psychopaths are ace abusers. She never calls Jodi a psychopath after 44 hours of interviews.

Because ALV had access to real time conversations, thousands of words between them, as well as conversations with others, and private writings of both, and knows how to analyze them as an objective observer.

IMO
Right. Many abuse victims I've met don't/won't necessarily lie until and unless they're actually confronted with evidence or suggestion of abuse. Its a lot more likely they'll lie by omission. There's also a lot of minimization and denial of abuse until latter stages of emotional recovery I'd never quantify as lying.

When was it stated that Alyce had a lot of experience with psychopathy because I'd missed that. There is a well established link between abuse and psychopaths, however, my concerns would lie in how much research LaViolette has studied in regards to it and the little fact that she supports court ordered therapy for batterers. Psychopaths, of course, are very skilled manipulators and even better liars, very often. And LaViolette wouldn't call her a psychopath anyway...it isn't a mental health diagnosis used by therapeutic clinicians but rather one used by forensic psychs. If anything she would have been dx'd with aspd as a stopgap measure...only LaViolette never performed any assessment because she isn't a psychologist or psychiatrist. And Samuels rather shoddy tests pointed to 'a' personality disorder but no follow up or specialized forensic assessment, like the PCL-R or PPI-R, specifically designed for psychopathy.

Family courts are very ugly places for victims and survivors sometimes for folks who haven't been 'there'. Court ordered mediation with someone you're terrified of (I was actually alone in an elevator with my STBX at the courthouse!); court mandated therapy for abusers which is arguably ineffective based on recidivism accounts by victims themselves (and I'd argue totally inappropriate for psychopaths fullstop); 'open access' to shared children, until and unless the other parent does something to restrict such access. (In my case that happened after months of unsupervised visits - when I'd been begging my attorney and the judge to see how dangerous he was the whole time.) It can be hell. Literally.
 
I've watched Juan's cross three times already tonight.
I might put this on repeat and listen all weekend.
:great:
 
coming out of the gates after the long wait like a stallion with his "snow white" analogy!!!:great: So worth the wait and just brilliant for those that get him!!!

Mark Eirglesh and Lonnie Combs (who I usually like) on Dr. Drew and the other talking heads just don't get it and the inference he is making. They insinuated he needed to be gentle and make her a prosecution witness. He's just getting started my dear talking head peeps. Monday isn't that far off, but he will still keep that aggressive style he is known for. For all the crap Wilmott got in...pleased to see the judge overruled all her objections but maybe one against Juan!! Next week is gonna be the BOMB!!!
 
The two people on this planet that know JA better than anyone else, when hearing about TA's death, IMMEDIATELY thought JA was involved! Her own parents didn't even have a temporary stall to mull it over. BOOM!

----------------------
Yes PA. and the interviews cant be let in, too incriminating!:what: if ANY thing is in it should be those interviews! who knows her better than her parents. I wonder what was up with operation on her butt, her Dad mentions it on the tape..What a crock of carp. :banghead: :seeya:
 
I was asking about the drawing of Snow White as opposed to the all of ALV's "silly titles". To be more specific - when and where did Jodi draw this?
Thanks.

I'm sorry. This trial is making a lot of us go cuckoo. Disregard me.
 
She was reading all the text messages back and forth.

Text messages are real time.

She was reading all the emails back and forth.

It's a brave new world

IMO

You cannot possibly know the REAL meaning behind a bunch of texts, especially when many of them were lost and/or deleted.

Also, there were many calls in between, which were also not heard, so it changes what the texts mean.

I used to read my DD's texts when she was 14 and 15, to try and get a handle on her relationships etc. I was constantly messing up the interpretations, when i would confront her about what I THOUGHT they meant. [ She knew I read them, it was our agreement in exchange for giving her some other 'freedoms']

Anyway, one cannot really know what texts mean and what intent and history was. ESPECIALLY someone being paid to find one thing or another.

When I read my DD's texts I was looking for her boyfriends to be horrible people---and sometimes it almost seemed that way--but I usually misinterpreted their true words. :angel:
 
on the jury feel. Seriously, normal guys listening to an "expert" telling them that this woman who slaughtered this guy was a "victim" because...well...she said so and ...power imbalance...and patriarchy. But what about this poor dead man slaughtered in his own bathroom. No, he's not the victim, Jodi is. And then they hear that this "expert" repeatedly speaks about Snow White as an abuse victim. That is, when she's not "interpreting" the e-mails of the slaughtered guy and his various dates. And the DT thinks the jury will buy this bull?


I just watched a 10 minute video of JM crossing ALV. They way that ALV was smirking and laughing towards the defense team over the Snow White questions makes me want to smack her (heck, the whole defense) with a wooden spoon.
I think we need a wooden spoon smacking smiley.
 
Molly, it IS a brave new world, and one that ALV has not bothered to join. Anyone living with today's technology understands that you can't always read emotion or nuances in the flat medium of IMs, texts and emails. Very innocent words can be made to sound horrendous, depending on who is reading them and with what intent.

It's a shame that TA was a gentleman in his style with the texts, etc. It would have been almost comical to have her interpret those messages if he was addicted to the thousands of abbreviations that most younger people use in the texts. The trial wouldn't have even started yet. She'd be in a library, with an internet/cell dictionary, trying to figure out what the heck anyone was saying :)
 
At the end of the day, while the rest of the courtroom observers left, the brunette and the blonde talked to the mitigation specialist while Nurmi talked to LaViolette.
Then they walked out of the courtroom arm and arm with LaViolette.








:tyou:

you go tiger with the pics, love it!! :floorlaugh:
iircc Yes the mitigation specialist was the loudest laugh out of the 3.. isn't that misconduct of some sort? nohecknomorechicaswholaughallowedbackinthecourtroom >> someone needs to get Starbucks to the bailiff pronto!
 
Okay kids, heading to bed.

I'm so sad there is not court on Fridays. :(

See you all in the am! Happy discussions and no TOs! ;)
 
Which begs the question: Which attorney would you rather have on your side? JM or KN/JW? JM speaks for those who no linger can. JMV

If I had a murdered love one, I would not want JM in the courtroom.

There is a big difference between being passionate about something and acting as he does....and that is JMO
 
Because ALV has had a lot of experience with liars. Abused women lie to everyone all the time.

Because ALV has had a lot of experience with psychopaths. Psychopaths are ace abusers. She never calls Jodi a psychopath after 44 hours of interviews.

IMO

You do realize she is a defense witness, being paid good money to provide testimony supporting Jodi, and that they would not hire/call a witness (like the many others they went through prior to these ones) who would call her anything like a "psychopath"? Seriously?

remember TA called himself a sociopath?

Who does that? Makes no sense. Who hacked Travis' email again? :)

Here's some extra context from journal entries that you were mentioning:

""I love him. I could not possibly love him not, though I wish I could stop. Turn it off like a light bulb. Duct tape it down so it can't turn back on. Or better yet, just cut the circuit. Cut off its light source. Make it dead in a second. Lifeless. A meaningless network of wires that do and mean nothing."

~ Jodi Arias, journal entry, 2007"

Wow, right down to the duct tape. Doesn't get creepier than that. All the way back in 2007, too.
 
JM's snow white analogy is pretty brilliant. Because of his nature I think it's hard for him to walk away from a line of questioning without eliciting the exact point he wants to make, so when a witness won't cooperate it's very frustrating, for us and especially for him. I could tell by the smirk on AL's face when he brought up the snow white speech that this was going to be an embarrassing fact for her. Academics especially love using fairy tales to make their case. I was once asked to re-write a fairy tale in a politically correct fashion for a psych class, so I get it. Psychology is a soft science at best, conjecture/subjective interpretation at its worst, and pure projection at its most heinous. It's no secret that a lot of people who go into psychology/mental health have a lot of issues of their own. AL has issues, no doubt, and to use a child's fairy tale to bolster a theory about domestic abuse, or gender roles, or whatever--tells us more about her personally than the case she was trying to make!

i am a lay person no physc classes. when alv smirked at jm and seemed to try to control his questions i thought, well well alv you have issues and i just seen them. :moo:
 
Lets review shall we?

Jodi makes plans to go on a trip to see several people ending with seeing Ryan B, her "potential new love interest" in Utah. To prepare for this trip Jodi rents a car in another town 100 miles away even though there are car rental places in Yreaka. When offered a red car Jodi politely says thanks but no thanks I prefer one not so noticable. Jodi then travels on to see her ex Daryl B that she livedwith/dated for 6 years and that she dumped but still lived with to date Travis to "borrow" 2 5 gallon gas cans. She also just happens to give Daryl B something that required a remote which she left in the car because she forgot to give it to him, she turns around after leaving to do this. She travels on and buys another 5 gallon gas can in the same town she "gets her nails done". In that town some "skaters messed with her tag" as some funny prank or something? Although later on, days later, when her tag on the back of the car is upside down and she gets pulled over for it she blames it on those "skaters". She has not had a long phone call conversation with Travis except for him calling her twice on 6/2/08 at 3:04 am and 3:21 am. Jodi calls Travis on 6/3/08 at 12:37 pm, 1:51 pm, 8:16 pm and 8:34 pm......ALL of those calls are 2 mins or less. Jodi buys gas for her car and the THREE gas cans before leaving California to go to Mesa, AZ. Jodi turns OFF her cell phone before entering AZ. Jodi dyes her hair before going to Mesa, AZ. Jodi buys NO gas, food items or anything else while in AZ. Jodi kills Travis with a knife AND a 25 auto (the same caliber that just happens to have been stolen from her grandparents home) and tries to clean the crime scene some. Jodi then leaves AZ and still buys NO gas in AZ or any other items. On 6/4/08 at 11:37 pm Jodi calls Travis leaving a voice mail saying something inane about when he comes to visit her in Yreka even though she knows he is dead. Jodi arrives in Utah to visit with Ryan B 23 hours later than she was expected and blames it on getting lost. Jodi has fun, grinds on Ryan, goes about her life as if nothing was wrong. Jodi goes home, goes to work, talks to her family again going about her life as if nothing was wrong.

Then we have Jodi on the stand, during cross, talking about her time spent those 3 or 4 days. We have Jodi admit that her visit with Ryan B was AN ALIBI. I'll repeat that, Jodi says on the stand in front of the jury that her visit with Ryan B on 6/5/08 WAS AN ALIBI!!!

I really think that says it all when it comes to "self defense".

MOO

Please, PLEASE tell me you are a lawyer!
 
ALV has totally turned my view of this case 180 degrees. I'm not sure what the Jury is doing with her testimony, but if there is one woman who is familiar with domestic abuse on the panel, they are looking at a hung jury. More than one--murder two or less. And, JM isn't doing the prosecution any favors by using his one speed fits all on her--he is just looking boorish and annoying.

IMO

My opinion is that any woman (myself included) who has been affected by domestic violence would be put off by Alyce LaViolette's testimony.

Did Jodi Arias ever have broken ribs from Travis? Did Travis pound her black and blue? Did Travis split her lip or break her jaw? Did he violently rape her after a miscarriage that was precipitated by his own abuse? Did he pound her with his fists so badly that she had to be rushed to an ER and suffered a detached retina?

He was mean to her. He said ugly words to her. He made her feel bad. He called her names. There is NO EVIDENCE that he was ever anything even close to VIOLENT with her. Any claims that he ever kicked, hit, or choked her come from one person: a known, admitted liar.

I think most women who have seen domestic violence up close would be put off by the assertion of Ms. LaViolette that Travis was a violent abuser. There is no evidence to prove that. Not a single photo. Not a single police report. Not a single person witnessed anything close to violence from Travis toward Jodi.

It infuriates me toward the witness, certainly not toward the prosecutor. She has made a mockery of millions of women who have suffered abuse from partners... real abuse, not imagined abuse, not just mean words, not just ugly text messages. If I were on that jury, I'd be thoroughly pissed off that this "expert witness" chose to defend the abuser over the victim--to the tune of $300 an hour.
 
I am new to this forum but I absolutely must sound off, I apologize in advance so you are forewarned--proceed with caution...

1) Dr. Samuels used the DSM III, any self-respecting, competent MH professional is using the DSM IV TR and in some cases finding any tidbit/diagnostic information related to the coming release of the DSM V---this is a critical reference book that ALV has no clue or training on, whether it be the first release or the much anticipated DSM V. This is like a Dr. who doesn't have a guideline to help them diagnose medical conditions.

2) Jodi presented evidence, through her own writings, observed actions and various individuals' observations, as an obsessive stalker with elements of Cluster B personality DO. In fact, her mother and father provide verbal evidence that she had rage/anger issues while living in her home of origin, yet there is no evidence or behavorial history reported that Mr. Alexander had a hx of anger or aggression.

3) Mr. Alexander, unexposed to the personality type of Ms. Arias, struggled to be kind while desperately, and sometimes frustratedly, trying to let go of Ms. Arias--he tried repeated as evidenced by documented evidence. Understand, that that this is a conundrum for "normal" people, such as Mr. Alexander, because they are committed to decency and quite frankly decency does not matter to psychologically disrupted people such that which Ms. Arias presented as--social norms are irrelevant to Borderline or Antisocial PD. And don't forget that Travis' background would suggest an exposure to addictive practices, such as his addiction, both typical and not, to the sex offered and used by Ms. Arias, hence the fatal attraction to what Ms. Arias offered and he deeply craved.

4) No matter what you ever do to end a relationship it is never okay or acceptable to brutally kill someone. We all have choices in this life and at the end of the day Jodi chose to have and marry Travis no matter what, and when he said no she made a premediated decision that she would make sure Mimi or any marriageable woman would never win him over her.

Thank You So Much for your explanation on what Travis must have seen too late and how it was hard to extricate himself from her.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
172
Guests online
2,408
Total visitors
2,580

Forum statistics

Threads
603,635
Messages
18,159,821
Members
231,790
Latest member
KristenLoren
Back
Top