Identified! CA - Mendocino Co, 2 WhtFem Teens, Jul'79 *Francine Trimble & Kerry Graham*

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q64ceo said:
So, what was that tooth found not belonging to either of the two about?

Talkin about the BBC link up on the page
Click to expand...

Very interesting videos on this link. I have watched them several times and noticed this :

The tooth is possibly from:

someone of Asian origin ( shovel shaped incisor )
and could belong to the perp
an undiscovered body
or inadvertently from another forensic case.

Also duct tape was found which they believe was used to bind the victims.

The video also shows the crime scene and the type of terrain they were discovered in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18529367
 
A few questions:
1. Aside from the duct tape, how do they know that they were murdered? From my understanding, the bones showed no signs of trauma (bullet holes, chipped bones from stab wounds, broken neck bones from strangulation).

2. I was also wondering how they know that they were middle school-aged kids. Couldn't they have been late bloomers? I've seen high school boys who can pass for sixth-graders and girls did not develop at the rate they do today.

3. Isn't this the same case where LE believed they were runaway kids? Didn't they have that theory before concluding that they were not related? I wonder what, if any, additional evidence led them to believe that they were runaways.

I also think the tooth is unrelated to the case. It's probably from a Native American, whom descended from Asia.
 
Sometimes I start to think that these two didn't travel together or even know each other. That some type of circumstance just put them together. We know they are not maternally related, but could possibly be step siblings.

Why is it believed they were from the Midwest? Was there any type of testing done to determine this?

I think the pictures of them are misleading because something just does not seem right.

Look at this comparison:

http://www.mendocinosheriff.com/missing/coldcases.html

I feel that his is way off and in NamUs they do not show the colored one.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10450

Then in her NamuUs profile it says the earring is ( "Fetish" type earring of a bird, possibly hand made from shell material. Type of jewelry commonly made by hippies and Native American Indians. Believed to be handmade from machine materials. ) I am not seeing this description in the pic of the earring that is shown.

https://identifyus.org/en/cases/10447

And I am wondering why there are no rule outs
 
Anyone following this case; use the link below to grab print screens of the Dentals & DNA before google crawls again. The full report has already been crawled; the case profile has not LINK Mendocino County, California
12 to 16 year old White Male

Complete - Insufficient DNA for profiling
Complete and entered below
Type mtDNA Y-STR

Dental information / charting is available and will be entered later (Explain below) - One or more teeth present
Baby/primary teeth present

X-Rays available
Models available
Photographs available
 
Julespa said:
Here is the webpage for Derran:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1876dmca.html

and the UID: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/111umca.html

The reconstruction looks very similar, I know the height is off but since the UID was found along with what is thought to be his girlfriend perhaps they were on the run for 5 years. Anyone else have any thoughts?
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The height seems an issue, however, a 14 year old's average height is 5'3"-5'6". With this in mind, it is possible this is an estimated height or guesstimate of how tall he would be as an adult. There are several cases in NAMUS that have pretty strange (really, really tall) heights for kids when you look at the average growth rate and this could throw off some of our matches. Maybe the height can be verified if there is family. I am a bit skeptical of a 6'2" 14 year old IMOO.
 
LucyOso said:
The height seems an issue, however, a 14 year old's average height is 5'3"-5'6". With this in mind, it is possible this is an estimated height or guesstimate of how tall he would be as an adult. There are several cases in NAMUS that have pretty strange (really, really tall) heights for kids when you look at the average growth rate and this could throw off some of our matches. Maybe the height can be verified if there is family. I am a bit skeptical of a 6'2" 14 year old IMOO.
Click to expand...

The average might still be fairly small, but the range is wide. I went to school with a couple of guys who were that big by that age. I'm also reading 6'0" for Derran on his Doenet page (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1876dmca.html).
 
LucyOso said:
The height seems an issue, however, a 14 year old's average height is 5'3"-5'6". With this in mind, it is possible this is an estimated height or guesstimate of how tall he would be as an adult. There are several cases in NAMUS that have pretty strange (really, really tall) heights for kids when you look at the average growth rate and this could throw off some of our matches. Maybe the height can be verified if there is family. I am a bit skeptical of a 6'2" 14 year old IMOO.
Click to expand...

My nephew is 14 years old, and he is 6 feet 6 inches tall.
 
kpdx said:
I'd like to see a rule out list, too.

Interesting piece on this case on BBC program (warning, skeletal remains shown): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18529366

found via Mendicino County's page: http://www.mendocinosheriff.com/missing/coldcases.html on UIDs (who are still not in NAMUS).

Aside from the impacted wisdom teeth, the report says the lack of complete skull bone fusion indicated their age.

Based on some reading, wisdom teeth and skull fusion is usually complete by age 25...meaning they may be a bit older than indicated.

Thus, I am curious as to whether Linda Lovell (LKA 1974) https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/9136/183 and her companion, Stephen Packard have been compared https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/14418.

Linda (other photos in her NAMUS image section) and Stephen definitely have an uncanny resemblance, and went missing from Mendicino County in 1974. They were hitchhiking through CA on their way up to Seattle, WA and last heard from/seen/cashed traveler's check in Mendicino.

There are some definite dissimilarities, but I think its worth a suggestion if someone is in touch with CA LE, if only to get it on the county sheriff's radar in case they do discover more remains in the area.

Reading through their cold cases, there were two murders around 1973 and 1974 of a young male and young female who have a resemblance to John and Jane. Probably unconnected, but is does raise the hinky meter.

CarlK, I know you have been in touch mostly with the MP LE on possibles for this case, but any chance you have reached out to CA LE?
Click to expand...

This is what I was thinking also.

The area (Westport) where Linda and Stephen were last known to be is very close to where the remains were found. I also am not sure I trust the info that has been provided on these UIDs'. Namus has the male's height between 5'2" and 5'11" (way too broad), has both their ages between 10 and 20 (again, way too broad), lists her as brown hair but does a recon with blonde hair, plus it says DNA was insufficient to obtain a sample even though they ruled out the two being related via DNA? And then, with all this wrong or unknown info, they have a specific date they are believed to have died?

Just within the last couple days there was a case resolved on Charley Project where the man's remains weren't ID'd for 21 years because they'd been listed as female. A while back, Heidi Balch was ID'd after decades of waiting because the date her remains were found preceded the date she supposedly went missing.

I think sometimes we need to look outside the parameters, because that would also explain why LE never put the two together.
 
It was stated earlier in this thread, but I think it's worth repeating - that it's possible that these two kids were associated with the Peoples Temple.

The Peoples temple was active in Mendocino County in the years preceding the November 18, 1978 mass suicide/murder in Guyana. One PT congregation was located near the town of Ukiah (in Mendocino County). Hundreds of people moved to Guyana in 1977-78 from several PT congregations in Northern California.

The location and timeframe fits perfectly to the circumstances of these two kids' deaths.
 
CarlK90245 said:
It was stated earlier in this thread, but I think it's worth repeating - that it's possible that these two kids were associated with the Peoples Temple.

The Peoples temple was active in Mendocino County in the years preceding the November 18, 1978 mass suicide/murder in Guyana. One PT congregation was located near the town of Ukiah (in Mendocino County). Hundreds of people moved to Guyana in 1977-78 from several PT congregations in Northern California.

The location and timeframe fits perfectly to the circumstances of these two kids' deaths.
Click to expand...

It's ironic that you're discussing theories because I was wondering what the prevalent theory is. My only grievance with that theory is that after all these years and people that were a part the People's Temple from that time and location, why hasn't one of them said something?

My solution in testing that theory is maybe tracking down former members on some forums where former members associate and asking if anyone remembers two kids who disappeared around that period.

I haven't been able to find any forums that are active or large. If anyone can find some, let me know?
 
Or would isotope testing be an option to see what regions there were from? How much does normally cost?
 
The department of religious studies at SDSU runs a very comprehensive website on Jonestown and Peoples Temple. Unfortunately it looks like their discussion forum was shut down earlier this year but perhaps one of the contacts could answer questions or point us in the right direction?

http://jonestown.sdsu.edu
 
Spoke to Fielding M. McGehee III, who runs the Jonestown Institute at SDSU. He said that he does not believe the two unidentified kids have any connection to Jonestown.
 
DrDMike said:
Spoke to Fielding M. McGehee III, who runs the Jonestown Institute at SDSU. He said that he does not believe the two unidentified kids have any connection to Jonestown.
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Sounded like he was already familiar with the case. Was he?
 
Huge huge huge huge development that I just found out........
Both of these kids were female. Spoke with the case manager and he said they recently did DNA testing and it showed that it was not one male and female but both were female.
Also, he said that he is certain the peoples temple was not involved and there were other alike murders in other counties but they can not link them. I asked if they could be foster kids and he said maybe but more likely runaways.
 
DrDMike said:
Huge huge huge huge development that I just found out........
Both of these kids were female. Spoke with the case manager and he said they recently did DNA testing and it showed that it was not one male and female but both were female.
Also, he said that he is certain the peoples temple was not involved and there were other alike murders in other counties but they can not link them. I asked if they could be foster kids and he said maybe but more likely runaways.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much!

new NCMEC links. Not sure what they did but none of the previous URLs have been working on any case I follow
NCMEC Girl
NCMEC Boy

Girl NamUs UP #10447
"Boy" NamUs UP #10450
 
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