17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #16

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He is not LE, so he does not need training or qualification to call 9-11. He only mentioned his race after he was asked about it by the dispatcher. Racial profiling is done by people in official positions of power such as LE. Saying that a private citizen is profiling is not really an accurate use of the term.

GZ called the police because TM was young, black, male and on foot. In GZ's mind, TM matched the stereotype of a burglar. GZ didn't see TM commit a criminal act, nor did he see TM do anything that would indicate he was a burglar. TM wasn't trying doors to see if they were unlocked, or peering into windows or carrying a crowbar to pry them open. He was just walking down the street and talking on his phone.
 
IF big ol whopping IF Trayvon jumped him, but how do you get around the fact that it is simply not logical or even reasonable to presume such a thing?

Trayvon did not know Zimmerman, and had no feelings of animus towards him at all, he did not deliberately seek out Mr. Zimmerman, he was being followed by Zimmerman, which would be enough to cause him some anxiety as to why someone was following him, but he was doing nothing wrong, he was not in fear that something illegal would be found on him, or that there was anything untoward going on except that someone who appeared to be a little weird was following him.

Not so George Zimmerman, he was invested in this chase, it is apparent because he ignored everything that he had been told in Neighborhood watch meetings and everything he had to read and sign when he got his permit to carry and anything he was told in the classes that he took. It is obvious that he KNEW that Trayvon was a criminal, and also obvious by his own words that he was not going to let this one "get away"

Which person of the two had the incentive to escalate a confrontation?

Unless you are willing to say that it must have been Trayvon because he was a teenageboy, who did the things that teenage boys sometimes do before they figure out which persona is really them, or unless you have some deep seated conviction that because he was a teenager and black that he HAD to have a hair trigger temper and would obviously be the one to strike first, then there is no reason to believe that Trayvon would have initiated a confrontation which he had no interest in, and every reason to believe that George Zimmerman would because he was completely invested in it. It is also reasonable to note that even if Zimmerman did in fact start the confrontation, once he had killed Trayvon, he was the only one left standing to tell the tale, and it is entirely in his interest to claim that Trayvon started it by attacking him, since I am reasonably sure he really doesn't want to go to jail. IMO JMHO and stuff.

That's a ton of assumption < mod snip>, how he would react in certain situations, etc.

I have known people to flip out if someone looks at them wrong or if they felt threatened in some sort of way.
 
Now I'm confused, I thought Trayvon was shot in the front???? Why/how could Trayvon be on his stomach if he was shot in the front???

I wonder if George slipped and fell on his butt on the wet grass, maybe bonked his head on a sprinkler, Trayvon turned to walk/run and George didn't want him to get away so shot him in the back?? Thus none of Trayvon's blood on George?? Can't wait til we get the autopsy...
 
Interestingly, I think just as there is a certain reaction to a black teen in a hoodie, there is also a certain reaction to people perceived to be in positions of power or privilege. People in such positions are aware of this.

JMO

What power does a retired out of state magistrate have over the police in this case?
 
What do you think he meant when he said "we don't need you to do that?"

Tony,

There is no reasonable answer to that question that relieves George Zimmerman of responsibility since everyone knows exactly what the dispatcher meant including George Zimmerman, the only real defense is that what George did was not illegal, not smart, but not illegal, but when someone ends up dead because you made a series of horrible decisions, even if they weren't illegal, you are legally responsible. IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
I wonder if George slipped and fell on his butt on the wet grass, maybe bonked his head on a sprinkler, Trayvon turned to walk/run and George didn't want him to get away so shot him in the back?? Thus none of Trayvon's blood on George?? Can't wait til we get the autopsy...

I think this very well could be what happened, but instead of running away what if Trayvon turned to see if George needed help and that is when George pulled the trigger thus the chest wound the funeral director spoke of.
 
Tony,

There is no reasonable answer to that question that relieves George Zimmerman of responsibility since everyone knows exactly what the dispatcher meant including George Zimmerman, the only real defense is that what George did was not illegal, not smart, but not illegal, but when someone ends up dead because you made a series of horrible decisions, even if they weren't illegal, you are legally responsible. IMO JMHO and stuff.

I agree.
 
It's relevant to me because if there was a struggle...you cannot just look at GZ and dissect his past and attitudes without looking at the OTHER PERSON who was in that struggle. TM had increasingly been getting into trouble. His Twitter account tells us a lot about him IN HIS OWN WORDS. If it is fair to judge GZ every word and action...and not do the same to TM?

Can the person who wrote those tweets, many angry and profane...been upset enough to decide to beat up GZ? It is possible, despite whatever those who would make TM "perfect" choose to ignore. If he is dead because of a fight that HE initiated, then that is a HUGE part of this story.

WE DON"T KNOW YET, do we? So we need as much info on both these people. TM is an excellent source of info on HIMSELF. If there is ANY possibility that TM was the aggressor in the FIGHT..and there is...everything needs to be known.

bbm
I just cant see my way into this. so far as I am concerned, granted I am female and a long time peruser of crime, so I may have additional reasons to fear a largish man following me...I am not perfect, just like trayvon....at trayvon's age I was even less close to perfect but I digress....

in my VERY HUMBLE OPINION the fact that GZ was STALKING trayvon, who, no matter WHAT song lyrics he put on his twitter, no matter that he was suspended from school (as was I, once, alas! the second time I was caught smoking!! the very THINGS some websleuthers would say about me, at 17, were I shot dead in the rain alone!) no matter to me, even if he threw the first punch (which I do NOT believe he did) he was being stalked by a dude with a GUN who got OUT OF HIS CAR to come after him! I'd be terrified! you better believe I might throw a punch if he didnt back away from me IMMEDIATELY!!

with all due respect it absolutely boggles my mind that zimmerman can be viewed as a victim here.
 
Of course they would.

It's interesting to me that Zimmerman still hasn't met face to face with either of his lawyers to date. I wonder why?

Until he's charged with something why retain and pay him, for what?
 
IF big ol whopping IF Trayvon jumped him, but how do you get around the fact that it is simply not logical or even reasonable to presume such a thing?

Trayvon did not know Zimmerman, and had no feelings of animus towards him at all, he did not deliberately seek out Mr. Zimmerman, he was being followed by Zimmerman, which would be enough to cause him some anxiety as to why someone was following him, but he was doing nothing wrong, he was not in fear that something illegal would be found on him, or that there was anything untoward going on except that someone who appeared to be a little weird was following him.

Not so George Zimmerman, he was invested in this chase, it is apparent because he ignored everything that he had been told in Neighborhood watch meetings and everything he had to read and sign when he got his permit to carry and anything he was told in the classes that he took. It is obvious that he KNEW that Trayvon was a criminal, and also obvious by his own words that he was not going to let this one "get away"

Which person of the two had the incentive to escalate a confrontation?

Unless you are willing to say that it must have been Trayvon because he was a teenageboy, who did the things that teenage boys sometimes do before they figure out which persona is really them, or unless you have some deep seated conviction that because he was a teenager and black that he HAD to have a hair trigger temper and would obviously be the one to strike first, then there is no reason to believe that Trayvon would have initiated a confrontation which he had no interest in, and every reason to believe that George Zimmerman would because he was completely invested in it. It is also reasonable to note that even if Zimmerman did in fact start the confrontation, once he had killed Trayvon, he was the only one left standing to tell the tale, and it is entirely in his interest to claim that Trayvon started it by attacking him, since I am reasonably sure he really doesn't want to go to jail. IMO JMHO and stuff.
My opinion is anything is possible. TM's tweets certainly tell of a young man who was either faking being something he was not...or had ecome someone angry, profane, degrading to women, etc. Just like Casey Anthony's own words gave us an opinion of her that certainly contradicted the "perfect Mother" that her family swears.

One does not need to have a trigger temper...if one is a teenager, increasingly getting in trouble at school, now on supension...and instead of being with your friends...shipped off to someplace where you know no one. That might make a teenager angry. Then, add in boredom...and a weird guy following you. That might make you even madder. Bad enough to be in this boring place...away from friends...but now this WHITE LATINO is hasseling him by following him.

Did TM say, "You got a problem with me?' or something similar? That ounds like the start of a confrontation. He could have said, "Sir, I'm on my way home...staying with my Dad. Is anything wrong?"

I don't thnk ANYONE had killing on their mind. < mod snip >
 
What do you think he meant when he said "we don't need you to do that?"

That they didn't need for him to. That implies that they weren't forbidding him from following TM, no matter how much some people want it to mean that. Why not just say "do not follow him"?
 
That's a ton of assumption on your part based on the fact you know nothing of TM's personality traits, how he would react in certain situations, etc.

I have known people to flip out if someone looks at them wrong or if they felt threatened in some sort of way.

Yet, although there is evidence that TM was not a perfect person, that he made the same mistakes that many young kids make, there is zero evidence that he was in physical confrontations habitually, that he fought or attacked people who annoyed him. There is no evidence that can be found that shows that he was a young man with a propensity for violent encounters.

There seems to be some evidence that George Zimmerman had some temper issues, notably that he was required to take anger management classes and had had problems due to physical altercations in the past.

History is often a reasonable predictor of future behavior when it is all you have to go on and unfortunately in this case it is. Add to that the fact that Trayvon had no reason to confront anyone, unless you are willing to believe that in spite of having no history of violent encounters all of a sudden he decides to physically fight with someone that he doesn't know and holds no animosity toward, simply because the man was following him and he thought it creepy or annoying.

IMO my assumptions are more valid and logic based than to simply assume that because George Zimmerman said self defense Trayvon MUST have hit him or jumped him or somehow started the physical fight, since as previously noted, George Zimmerman has every reason to want everyone to believe that Trayvon started things....IMO JMHO and stuff.
 
My opinion is anything is possible. TM's tweets certainly tell of a young man who was either faking being something he was not...or had ecome someone angry, profane, degrading to women, etc. Just like Casey Anthony's own words gave us an opinion of her that certainly contradicted the "perfect Mother" that her family swears.

One does not need to have a trigger temper...if one is a teenager, increasingly getting in trouble at school, now on supension...and instead of being with your friends...shipped off to someplace where you know no one. That might make a teenager angry. Then, add in boredom...and a weird guy following you. That might make you even madder. Bad enough to be in this boring place...away from friends...but now this WHITE LATINO is hasseling him by following him.

Did TM say, "You got a problem with me?' or something similar? That ounds like the start of a confrontation. He could have said, "Sir, I'm on my way home...staying with my Dad. Is anything wrong?"

I don't thnk ANYONE had killing on their mind. But I can see how a bored, angry teenager, just suspended, maybe showing off to the girlfriend on the phone...might strike out at some guy following him.

You are saying what I want say, keep talking. :seeya:
 
My opinion is anything is possible. TM's tweets certainly tell of a young man who was either faking being something he was not...or had ecome someone angry, profane, degrading to women, etc. Just like Casey Anthony's own words gave us an opinion of her that certainly contradicted the "perfect Mother" that her family swears.

One does not need to have a trigger temper...if one is a teenager, increasingly getting in trouble at school, now on supension...and instead of being with your friends...shipped off to someplace where you know no one. That might make a teenager angry. Then, add in boredom...and a weird guy following you. That might make you even madder. Bad enough to be in this boring place...away from friends...but now this WHITE LATINO is hasseling him by following him.

Did TM say, "You got a problem with me?' or something similar? That ounds like the start of a confrontation. He could have said, "Sir, I'm on my way home...staying with my Dad. Is anything wrong?"

I don't thnk ANYONE had killing on their mind. But I can see how a bored, angry teenager, just suspended, maybe showing off to the girlfriend on the phone...might strike out at some guy following him.

And instead of George profiling Trayvon as a criminal, he could have rolled down his window and smiled nicely at Trayvon and said "hey young man, my name is George Zimmerman, I am the community neighborhood watch captain, it's raining outside would you like a ride to your door?"
 
My opinion is anything is possible. TM's tweets certainly tell of a young man who was either faking being something he was not...or had ecome someone angry, profane, degrading to women, etc. Just like Casey Anthony's own words gave us an opinion of her that certainly contradicted the "perfect Mother" that her family swears.

One does not need to have a trigger temper...if one is a teenager, increasingly getting in trouble at school, now on supension...and instead of being with your friends...shipped off to someplace where you know no one. That might make a teenager angry. Then, add in boredom...and a weird guy following you. That might make you even madder. Bad enough to be in this boring place...away from friends...but now this WHITE LATINO is hasseling him by following him.

Did TM say, "You got a problem with me?' or something similar? That ounds like the start of a confrontation. He could have said, "Sir, I'm on my way home...staying with my Dad. Is anything wrong?"

I don't thnk ANYONE had killing on their mind. But I can see how a bored, angry teenager, just suspended, maybe showing off to the girlfriend on the phone...might strike out at some guy following him.


Some kids in today's world act a certain way to avoid being bullied. That doesn't mean that is who they are to the core.
 
My opinion is anything is possible. TM's tweets certainly tell of a young man who was either faking being something he was not...or had ecome someone angry, profane, degrading to women, etc. Just like Casey Anthony's own words gave us an opinion of her that certainly contradicted the "perfect Mother" that her family swears.

One does not need to have a trigger temper...if one is a teenager, increasingly getting in trouble at school, now on supension...and instead of being with your friends...shipped off to someplace where you know no one. That might make a teenager angry. Then, add in boredom...and a weird guy following you. That might make you even madder. Bad enough to be in this boring place...away from friends...but now this WHITE LATINO is hasseling him by following him.

Did TM say, "You got a problem with me?' or something similar? That ounds like the start of a confrontation. He could have said, "Sir, I'm on my way home...staying with my Dad. Is anything wrong?"

I don't thnk ANYONE had killing on their mind. But I can see how a bored, angry teenager, just suspended, maybe showing off to the girlfriend on the phone...might strike out at some guy following him.

Well, all the more reason to NOT stalk a dangerous individual like that.
 
"My boy?"

There may wel be reason to charge GZ. But the exaggerations, distortions, hysteria and outright lies require a few of us to try to give balance. No one is supposed to object to an elected politcian saying Whites are hunting Blacks like dogs?

No one should point out TM's REAL picture? It's relevant because, if, for whatever reason, Opie of Mayberry RFD has decided to style himself in a way, and talk in a way, and use the profanity , and degradation of women common to ...Skinheads...well, that's just the truth. We cannot just give out a picture of Opie and say that's WHO HE IS NOW. Because that's false. THE TRUTH matters in justice. Dying tragically does not alter the TRUTH.

TM's Twitter account does not show a young man who wants to talk about aviation, about football. He is not choosing a picture of himself in a football uniform. Maybe he was just "posing." But since YOU all are dealing in guesses...all to the detriment of GZ...you force others to guess...just to be fair. Maybe he wanted his girlfriend to think he was "tough"...maybe he was angry...maybe he decided to jump this weird guy?

There should be no "my guy" or "your guy." There should just be an investigation into the truth. That means considering warts on all side. Because TM is dead does not mean he could not have started the fight...been WINNING...and then lost to a bullet. That's a tragedy. Not Whites hunting Blacks like dogs in the street. Not "war on Black men." Or any of the other hysteria.
TM's twitter account shows an average teenager.His twitter account reflects his age.His twitter account looks like ALL our teens accounts unless they're the exception.Trayvon is my boy.He's our child walking down the street
That's all I think about.What if it would have been my kid? I think that's why we are so angry,so outraged because we think that could have been my kid.
 
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