17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #19

[Gin]

I just read that to mean that there would be no charges bought to GM. I used to be a paralegal in my former but I have gotten really rusty. Isn't the GJ secret anyways?

Absolutely. And theoretically, you are right about GJ's being secret, but human nature is human nature, sometimes. I think it's wise to avoid risking this, if she can.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Does anyone remember the difference between a "deposition" and an "investigative interview?"

I think the SA is doing "investigative interviews" with all witnesses right now. I think she is probably waiting for all forensics to come back... and probably has had to send in evidence to be tested because it wasn't done. I also think we're dealing with a few separate investigations. The FBI and DOJ are also involved. I would much rather everyone take their time and do a proper investigation. The worst thing they can do is another rushed investigation. They are doing the right thing for everyone in this case by not rushing.

The unfortunate thing about "investigative interviews" is that if there is ever an arrest, "investigative interviews" do not have to be released under the Sunshine Laws. :banghead:

 

[LolaMoon08]

I would also like to know if George is cooperating with this new SA's investigation? We all know he was "cooperative" when it involved the SPD, I'm just wondering if that has changed now that there is an actual investigation taking place?

Has his lawyer said anything about that? I know the lawyer said GZ would turn himself in peacefully, if there was an arrest, but has he said anything about GZ meeting and cooperating with the new SA?

 

[vlpate]

Then why was I accessed extra dues when they paved the streets in my condo complex? Why was I accessed extra dues when the last hurricane to hit my area ripped up the palm trees and they had to be replaced? My written HOA states that all owners are responsible for all common grounds, and as an owner therefore a member of the HOA equal owner of all common ground.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

If someone is killed in your newly paved parking and through areas, will they have legal grounds to sue you? No.

"and as an owner therefore a member of the HOA equal owner of all common ground."

You own a shared interest in the common grounds. You own your condominium outright. If someone is shot inside your home, you could be sued under certain circumstances.

You have no control over the common grounds, you only have control of the inside of your dwelling. The HOA has control of the common grounds. Individual condominium owners cannont be sued for that which they have no control over.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have been in charge of multi-million dollar assets for a very long time - one was a condo community with an HOA. I don't know how your deed is worded, I didn't deal with sales, only management of the common areas - the HOA and management company has insurance on all common areas to protect them in the event of a lawsuit.

An interesting note that hasn't come up - we always made any contract employee carry liability insurance, I wonder if there was a contract with GZ or the NW program.

 

[Emeralgem]

Sorry bout that....just the way it appeared. That's pretty sad that they back pedaled so fast. I think an arrest is imminent...they just don't want to go out on a limb.

Seems to me there could be quite alot of back peddling going on right now at all levels, but I'm just suspicious like that....I also hope you are correct in thinking there will be an arrest..I'm not too certain of that being the case...Guess we'll just have to wait and see.. JMHO

 

[Karmady]

Does anyone remember the difference between a "deposition" and an "investigative interview?"

I think the SA is doing "investigative interviews" with all witnesses right now. I think she is probably waiting for all forensics to come back... and probably has had to send in evidence to be tested because it wasn't done. I also think we're dealing with a few separate investigations. The FBI and DOJ are also involved. I would much rather everyone take their time and do a proper investigation. The worst thing they can do is another rushed investigation. They are doing the right thing for everyone in this case by not rushing.

The unfortunate thing about "investigative interviews" is that if there is ever an arrest, "investigative interviews" do not have to be released under the Sunshine Laws. :banghead:

Depositions are sworn testimony given under oath in front of a court reporter in the context of a pending litigation. Both sides (or all sides if there are more than two parties) are entitled to be present and question the witness. If it is a "discovery" deposition, it can be used to impeach the deponent's testimony at trial or in an affidavit subsequently presented to the court. If it is a deposition to preserve trial testimony it can be used in place of the live witness testimony at trial if the parties agree or if certain criteria are met regarding the reason why the witness can't testify in person. jmo

 

[LambChop]

If someone is killed in your newly paved parking and through areas, will they have legal grounds to sue you? No.


You own a shared interest in the common grounds. You own your condominium outright. If someone is shot inside your home, you could be sued under certain circumstances.

You have no control over the common grounds, you only have control of the inside of your dwelling. The HOA has control of the common grounds. Individual condominium owners cannont be sued for that which they have no control over.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have been in charge of multi-million dollar assets for a very long time - one was a condo community with an HOA. I don't know how your deed is worded, I didn't deal with sales, only management of the common areas - the HOA and management company has insurance on all common areas to protect them in the event of a lawsuit.

An interesting note that hasn't come up - we always made any contract employee carry liability insurance, I wonder if there was a contract with GZ or the NW program.

If the HOA is sued with the policy that only covers $1 million and the jury awards $10 million the homeowners will all jointly be assessed by the HOA for the reminder of the award. You, as an individual homeowner in this community end up paying the remainder split equally with everyone else who is a property owner. That is how it works.

GZ was not an employee of the HOA and I have not seen anything that claims he was. jmo

 

[vlpate]

He was a volunteer Neighborhood Watch, so am I! You don't patrol, you don't sign a contract, you don't get paid, and there are no shifts. I'll call in the middle of the night if there is an accident or loud noise like a gunshot.

I was just going by some of the things online that I've found. I don't suppose it's the same everywhere, obviously. It sounds like what you are doing is being a concerned citizen, something everyone should do - good for you!

Anyway, here's where I got the "shift" information:
http://www.volunteerguide.org/minutes/service-projects/neighborhood-watch

"Since most Neighborhood Watch groups work in shifts, find a shift that best suits your current schedule."

 

[Gin]

If someone is killed in your newly paved parking and through areas, will they have legal grounds to sue you? No.

Really? What if an unarmed teen was killed by your volunteer armed security guard?
The guy that was listed in your association's newsletter as the point guy to call for any criminal concerns??

GZ was well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines, he just chose not to follow them. Ok, but at that point he became a volunteer armed security guard. IMO/JMO

 

[grandmaj]

http://www.mcall.com/news/nationworld/sns-ap-us-neighborhood-watch-liability,0,140761.story

Plus, lawyers say, Exhibit A would be a newsletter sent by the association to residents in February, the same month as the shooting. It said Zimmerman was the go-to person for residents who had been the victims of a crime.


Under the heading "Neighborhood Watch," the newsletter's message recommended that residents first call police and then "please contact our Captain, George Zimmerman ... so he can be aware and help address the issue with other residents."

That seeming endorsement of Zimmerman exposes the 7-year-old association to possible legal action by Martin's parents, homeowners association attorneys said.

 

[jjenny]

Really? What if an unarmed teen was killed by your volunteer armed security guard?
The guy that was listed in your association's newsletter as the point guy to call for any criminal concerns??

GZ was well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines, he just chose not to follow them. Ok, but at that point he became a volunteer armed security guard. IMO/JMO

Well I guess if all of this is true his father's g/f might end up as one of the people paying.

 

[m00c0w]

Really? What if an unarmed teen was killed by your volunteer armed security guard?
The guy that was listed in your association's newsletter as the point guy to call for any criminal concerns??

GZ was well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines, he just chose not to follow them. Ok, but at that point he became a volunteer armed security guard. IMO/JMO

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have to show that the HOA was liable in some manner. If he was "well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines", then the HOA did what they were supposed to do, and Zimmerman acted on his own. To put it another way...

If Zimmerman crashed into another car on common HOA grounds (while "patrolling" as he was told not to do), would Zimmerman be solely liable, or would the victim be able to sue the HOA for the incident Zimmerman was liable for?

 

[Desdemona]

It sounds as if the family is trying to convince the public that GZ was attacked while on his way back to his car while walking on the cut through sidewalk when the body was found further down between the houses, which makes it appear that either GZ went after TM, or TM was trying to get away from GZ. Otherwise TM's body would have been found closer to the cut through. I doubt if TM drug GZ down that far. jmo

We really don't know what happened, do we? They could have been walking along while the verbal altercation took place, before any physical fighting began. From the neighbors' 911 calls, it sounded like the yelling/fighting went on for a bit. Who knows? I'm still waiting to learn the investigative version of what took place, rather than relying on the voices in the fog. We haven't even seen/heard GZ's actual statement to LE that night, have we?

My post was in response to Papa, who had circled a spot on the map, saying that those speaking in support of GZ have claimed that this was the location of the shooting itself and of TM's body on the ground. My point was that it would be silly for anyone to have conspired to claim a false location for TM's body, since the actual location of TM's body is a known fact. Thanks.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Yep, the only thing that could exonerate the Homeowner's Association is if Zimmerman signed the rules stating that he understood he wasn't supposed to carry a gun or follow other residents around.

From what we know so far, it would seem the Neighborhood Watch in that particular development was possibly under the control of Zimmerman and maybe a few friends of his, and they were sort of making up their own rules while ignoring whatever the local authorities had told him. That's just my perception of things. :twocents:

 

[mercuriod]

Yep, the only thing that could exonerate the Homeowner's Association is if Zimmerman signed the rules stating that he understood he wasn't supposed to carry a gun or follow other residents around.

From what we know so far, it would seem the Neighborhood Watch in that particular development was possibly under the control of Zimmerman and maybe a few friends of his, and they were sort of making up their own rules while ignoring whatever the local authorities had told him. That's just my perception of things. :twocents:

Ironic part of all this is Zimmerman is not an owner therefore not even part of the HOA. Zimmerman is a renter so any action against the HOA will not affect him one iota.

jmo, imo and all that jazz

 

[csziggy]

That's nice!! He ran the concession stand!! Us cheerleaders had to do that all through Pop Warner and High School. That was hard work!!

MOO

This is a late reply on this subject, but my husband came up an idea why Trayvon was no longer playing football. The same as Trayvon, My husband was very tall and played football in junior high. He was heavier than Trayvon and in his high school pictures looks like a big hefty football player type. But he was taken off the team because he was not aggressive enough.

The way some of the teachers described Trayvon, he was the same way, not aggressive. Even his football coach said that:

"There's no way I can believe that, because he's not a confrontational kid," said Jerome Horton, who was one of Martin's former football coaches and knew him since he was about 5. "It just wouldn't happen. That's just not that kid."
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2012/03/trayvon_martins_friends_say_he.html

Just a thought so IMO, JMO, etc.

 

[suzihawk]

Well I guess if all of this is true his father's g/f might end up as one of the people paying.

Well, if I were her I'd be hanging a 'For Sale' sign ASAP (assuming she's an owner vs. renter). The possible HOA suit would just be one of the many reasons. JMO

 

[Gin]

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have to show that the HOA was liable in some manner. If he was "well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines", then the HOA did what they were supposed to do, and Zimmerman acted on his own. To put it another way...

If Zimmerman crashed into another car on common HOA grounds (while "patrolling" as he was told not to do), would Zimmerman be solely liable, or would the victim be able to sue the HOA for the incident Zimmerman was liable for?

JMO/IMO, I don't believe the HOA in any way did what they were supposed to do. They should have had a memo of understanding that was signed by any and all neighborhood watch members. Without that, they endorsed Z's unique relationship with them by listing him in the newsletter.
There won't be a neighborhood watch group in the country that will say Z's armed patrolling/pursuing is standard procedure. In fact, most would say behaving that way one time would get you kicked out of the neighborhood watch. It's dangerous, and it's totally against neighborhood watch principles.

About your car example--I believe both Z and the board/association would be sued.

 

[ThoughtFox]

If I'm not mistaken, you'd have to show that the HOA was liable in some manner. If he was "well briefed on neighborhood watch guidelines", then the HOA did what they were supposed to do, and Zimmerman acted on his own. To put it another way...

If Zimmerman crashed into another car on common HOA grounds (while "patrolling" as he was told not to do), would Zimmerman be solely liable, or would the victim be able to sue the HOA for the incident Zimmerman was liable for?

If believe he didn't sign something exonerating them of blame, then they are still liable, especially since this happened in a commons area where people are allowed to walk around.

Zimmerman's idea of "patrolling" and Neighborhood Watch's definition are probably two different things.

The woman who set up the program for that neighborhood told them not to leave their homes or vehicles for instance.

From the New York Times

SANFORD, Fla. — Last August, Wendy Dorival got a call about setting up a local neighborhood watch. As the volunteer coordinator for the Police Department here, she gets such calls regularly, and the city already had at least 10 active watch groups. So she thought nothing of this call, from George Zimmerman.

She set up a visit for the next month at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, a gated community that had been dealing with a string of burglaries. When 25 residents showed up, a decent turnout, she had the residents introduce themselves; after all, people join the groups to look out for each other. She then gave a PowerPoint presentation and distributed a handbook. As she always does, she emphasized what a neighborhood watch is — and what it is not.

In every presentation, “I go through what the rules and responsibilities are,” she said Thursday. The volunteers’ role, she said, is “being the eyes and ears” for the police, “not the vigilante.” Members of a neighborhood watch “are not supposed to confront anyone,” she said. “We get paid to get into harm’s way. You don’t do that. You just call them from the safety of your home or your vehicle.”

Using a gun in the neighborhood watch role would be out of the question, she said in an interview.

 

[Desdemona]

His grandmother had just died. Could they have been his grandmother's? jmo

He told school authorities they belonged to a friend. When pressed, he refused to give the name of the friend. He refused to say where he got them. I can think of no reason whatsoever why he would not have saved his butt by revealing that the rings and earrings belonged to his deceased granny, if that was the truth! JMO