17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[jaded cat]

A nose COULD be broken from a 9mm recoil but it's bloody unlikely.

Would being in close quarters to each other make any difference? If GZ wasn't able to extend his arm to fire, could the gun recoil? :waitasec:

 

[Reader]

Originally Posted by Donjeta
“So he’s concerned because he’s exposed to many people he doesn’t even know,” O’Mara added.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/nationa...#ixzz1sEy1xubi


Well, how inconsiderate of the jail officials, not to make sure all the other criminals in jail are people that GZ knows and approves of.

Exposed....like they have a disease or something?

He doesn't even know....so he has a problem with people he doesn't know? Oh right, we know what happens when George meets someone he doesn't recognize don't we? Maybe the other people there need protection from him!

 

[jaded cat]

I feel sorry for him. He lived his life believing he's an energetic law abiding citizen, and he went to jail believing he was protecting his neighbors.

I also feel great empathy for Trayvon, and his parents. Both parents, but particularly his mother has pulled at my heartstrings. They have handled their horrible pain of loss with more grace than I could ever muster.

I feel empathy for everyone in this story. If only, if only if only is the mantra. If only one of these two young men had behaved civilly, their lives and their family's lives wouldn't be ruined.

BBM

That's the only part of your post I can take exception to. He went to jail because he acted foolishly. When he called 911, he was potentially protecting his neighbors. When he pulled out his gun, he became a potential criminal. The justice system will determine whether what he did was foolish and reached the level of criminal behaviour or if he was within the SYG, self defense, whatever.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Exposed....like they have a disease or something?

He doesn't even know....so he has a problem with people he doesn't know? Oh right, we know what happens when George meets someone he doesn't recognize don't we? Maybe the other people there need protection from him!

BBM

Only if they let him keep his gun. :moo:

 

[JeannaT]

BBM

That's the only part of your post I can take exception to. He went to jail because he acted foolishly. When he called 911, he was potentially protecting his neighbors. When he pulled out his gun, he became a potential criminal. The justice system will determine whether what he did was foolish and reached the level of criminal behaviour or if he was within the SYG, self defense, whatever.

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon. And in GZ's mindset, this young man might commit a crime and then be out of there before the non emergency response arrived.

To me, that's important.

 

[Talina]

I feel sorry for him. He lived his life believing he's an energetic law abiding citizen, and he went to jail believing he was protecting his neighbors.

I also feel great empathy for Trayvon, and his parents. Both parents, but particularly his mother has pulled at my heartstrings. They have handled their horrible pain of loss with more grace than I could ever muster.

I feel empathy for everyone in this story. If only, if only if only is the mantra. If only one of these two young men had behaved civilly, their lives and their family's lives wouldn't be ruined.

Based on the facts we know so far (not inference or conjecture) I'm really curious what behavior of Trayvon's that particular evening would be considered uncivil?

 

[HMSHood]

Question for the legal types here: what would be the benefit of George waiving his right to a speedy trial?

TIA.

The 6th Amendment says this:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I feel sorry for him. He lived his life believing he's an energetic law abiding citizen, and he went to jail believing he was protecting his neighbors.

I also feel great empathy for Trayvon, and his parents. Both parents, but particularly his mother has pulled at my heartstrings. They have handled their horrible pain of loss with more grace than I could ever muster.

I feel empathy for everyone in this story. If only, if only if only is the mantra. If only one of these two young men had behaved civilly, their lives and their family's lives wouldn't be ruined.

BBM

We've been through this before, but I'll say it again: NO ONE can reasonably be expected to be civil to a stranger who is following them, or who confronts them.

So you must believe that TM's "incivility" was him jumping GZ as GZ claims.

 

[JBean]

Question for the legal types here: what would be the benefit of George waiving his right to a speedy trial?

TIA.

IANAL but generally speaking the main benefit is it gives him more time to prepare his defense. But by that same token if the defense does not think that the prosecution is ready-it can be wise to request a speedy trial- so that the prosecution doesn't have time to make their case. All depends on circumstances.

ETA: come to think of it I wonder if the SYG hearing has any play in the right to a speedy trial.

 

[Talina]

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon.

To me, that's important.

I've always felt that his call being to the non-emergency number rather than 911 was very important but not necessarily for the same reason as your post.

To me, him calling the non-emergency number rather than 911 tells me that whatever he observed about Trayvon that made him suspicious was not to the level of being an emergency (eg nothing criminal in his behavior). I then ask myself: If that is the case, then what was so urgent that he felt he couldn't lose sight of him and had to follow him so that he didn't get away?

IMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The 6th Amendment says this:

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.

Thanks. Yes, I know the Constitution guarantees the right to a speedy trial. My question was, what benefit would GZ gain from waiving this right?

IIRC his lawyer said he didn't see the trial starting this year, or for at least a year, or something like that. I interpret that to mean that he will advise GZ to waive his right to a speedy trial.

So what would be the benefit to him for doing so? I would think the defense would want to get the thing to trial ASAP to give the prosecution less time to gather more evidence.

But I'm not a lawyer.

 

[jaded cat]

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon.

To me, that's important.

Ok, if he thought his neighbors needed protecting, why did he call the non-emergency number? It can't be both ways. The dispatcher told him police were on their way.

He is not a LEO. He reported something he thought was suspicious. He fulfilled his duty at that point. When people call the non-emergency number to report something, the police are not obligated to rush to that location. They may be answering actual 911 calls, responding to real emergencies.

GZ didn't tell the dispatcher that TM was doing anything illegal at the time he called, or while he was on the line with him. GZ thought he looked suspicious because that's his mind set. It was laid out quite clearly in his conversation with the dispatcher.

The fact that he called the Non-Emergency is at the core of the matter.

 

[Karmady]

IANAL but generally speaking the main benefit is it gives him more time to prepare his defense. But by that same token if the defense does not think that the prosecution is ready-it can be wise to request a speedy trial- so that the prosecution doesn't have time to make their case. All depends on circumstances.

I think, speaking very generally, that a guilty defendant benefits from a waiver and an innocent one does not. Here, however, the huge amounts of public attention play probably the most significant role. Overall, for that reason, I think delay until the whole matter slips out of the public eye and emotion dies down on all sides is probably in his best interest. Particularly since if the case is dismissed or he is found not guilty, it's not like he will get his life back any time soon, or ever, in fact. jmo

 

[Karmady]

Ok, if he thought his neighbors needed protecting, why did he call the non-emergency number? It can't be both ways. The dispatcher told him police were on their way.

He is not a LEO. He reported something he thought was suspicious. He fulfilled his duty at that point. When people call the non-emergency number to report something, the police are not obligated to rush to that location. They may be answering actual 911 calls, responding to real emergencies.

GZ didn't tell the dispatcher that TM was doing anything illegal at the time he called, or while he was on the line with him. GZ thought he looked suspicious because that's his mind set. It was laid out quite clearly in his conversation with the dispatcher.

The fact that he called the Non-Emergency is at the core of the matter.

Because he wasn't sure? Just suspicious? And I may have this wrong but, I think by the time he said Trayvon was headed to the back gate he knew a car was on the way, no?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon. And in GZ's mindset, this young man might commit a crime and then be out of there before the non emergency response arrived.

To me, that's important.

So if he thought he needed to protect his neighbors, why didn't he call 911?

It can't go both ways. Either he perceived Trayvon as a serious enough threat to his neighbors to call 911 (just like he did over, oh, the stray dog, for example) or harmless enough that he didn't need to bother, and could simply call the nonemergency number instead.

Not only that, the dispatcher told him, twice, that officers were on the way, so he knew it wasn't going to take them an hour or more to get there.

ETA: Jaded Cat, get out of my head! LOL.

 

[JBean]

I think, speaking very generally, that a guilty defendant benefits from a waiver and an innocent one does not. Here, however, the huge amounts of public attention play probably the most significant role. Overall, for that reason, I think delay until the whole matter slips out of the public high and emotion dies down on all sides is probably in his best interest. Particularly since if the case is dismissed or he is found not guilty, it's not like he will get his life back any time soon, or ever, in fact. jmo

I think-in this case- both benefit for exactly the reasons you state. It is very wise, to put this thing out as far as possible so that the wounds are not so raw.

 

[LinasK]

This may seem like a small detail to most, but to me it's huge.

GZ didn't call 911. He called the nonemergency number. It could have been an hour or who knows how long before LE showed up. I believe GZ thought he would have a long wait before there was any response, and felt the need to track Trayvon because no one from LE would be there anytime soon. And in GZ's mindset, this young man might commit a crime and then be out of there before the non emergency response arrived.

To me, that's important.

Then, if TM was such a threat, why call the non-emergency number instead of 911??? Is it because he cried wolf so often that he didn't think they'd come? Like calling on an 8-year old?

 

[Reader]

Based on the facts we know so far (not inference or conjecture) I'm really curious what behavior of Trayvon's that particular evening would be considered uncivil?

Thanks! I didn't want to be picky but that phrase kept sticking in my craw!

Since I don't believe a thing George or his family and friends have said about what happened, and apparently neither does Ms. Corey, there is no evidence that Trayvon did anything 'uncivil' that tragic night.

George however did admittedly kill Trayvon and I call that uncivil and more, murder.

It's not uncivil to try to avoid and run from someone who is chasing you for unknown reasons and won't identify themselves or say why they are chasing you. It's not uncivil to fight for your life when attacked by someone who has a gun.

IMO

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I think, speaking very generally, that a guilty defendant benefits from a waiver and an innocent one does not. Here, however, the huge amounts of public attention play probably the most significant role. Overall, for that reason, I think delay until the whole matter slips out of the public eye and emotion dies down on all sides is probably in his best interest. Particularly since if the case is dismissed or he is found not guilty, it's not like he will get his life back any time soon, or ever, in fact. jmo

Good points, but then again, there was a huge amount of public attention focused on Danielle Van Dam's murder, and David Westerfield's attorney did not waive.

Of course, that didn't work out so well for him.

OTOH, I am pretty sure I remember after the trial the prosecution saying they were processing evidence up until the last minute.

So maybe that was a wise move on Steven Feldman's part.

But then again, I don't see GZ's prosecution relying so much on trace evidence like fibers as in DW's case.

And why would GZ need so much time to prepare a defense? Isn't his defense self-defense/SYG? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

But I'm not a lawyer.

 

[magnolia]

BBm

Really? She could clearly see GZ's swollen nose from her 2nd floor window? Because I'm such a PIA about what's being reported, I had MrJC go outside and I looked at him from our 2nd floor window. Not knowing how many feet away she was, we tried it with him moving closer and further away, changing angles and posture. It is 6:45 pm here, sun is shinning and I can clearly see him. I could see his face but I wouldn't have been able to tell if his nose was swollen. In broad daylight. Sun shinning brightly.

How did this woman, from her 2nd story window, at night, with only porch and courtyard lighting , see GZ's swollen nose? Was there blood on his nose? Blood on his shirt? His jacket? Surely if she could see his broken nose, she could have seen these other details.

Here's the deal, for me, myself and I only. I wish both sides would, with the exception of parents, STFU! The story itself is tragic, it doesn't need embellishing or minimizing. It needs to stand alone, on facts and forensic evidence. Since not one member of the media has their grubby little hands on all the facts and all the evidence. SHUT UP! You don't know any more than the rest of the general public.

I wonder if TM's parents are being followed continuously. Maybe, left to themselves, they would say less. What they wanted to happen, has happened. Now, they can only sit back and wait for the slow wheels of justice to turn.

GZ's parents should be able to speak in defense of their son. No matter what they feel inside, he is their son and they should stand behind him. His
brother and casual acquaintances need to STFU because they aren't helping GZ at all.

lease:

Who said the women saw GZ's swollen nose at night?

Jorge Rodriguez, Zimmerman's next-door neighbor, told Reuters that when he saw Zimmerman the day after the incident, "he had two big, butterfly bandages on the back of his head, and another big bandage...on the bridge of his nose." He was talking to a police detective in his driveway.

Rodriguez's wife Audria also said she saw the bandages and a third neighbor, who spoke only on condition of anonymity, agreed with the Rodriguez couple's account. "I saw two bandages on the back of his head, and his nose was all swollen up," said the witness, who had watched from a nearby second-floor window.