17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #26

[PaintingAnemone]

Yes suzi you are correct. Here is Mr. Hornsby's answer when Dr. Fessel posted that question to him....

04-15-2012, 09:30 PM
rhornsby
Board Certified Criminal Trial Lawyer

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Orlando, Florida
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Fessel
If one of George's friends gets on TV and says well George told me this and George told me that, could the SA make them take the stand and then question them about what George told them from what they said on TV?

Yes, they could.


This post can be found on thread #25, post #661.

Thank you for the clarification on this! It must be a misconception on my part that hearsay is not allowable - or is it just that we're supposed to allow for the fact that it's second hand? In any case, good to know.

 

[nomoresorrow]

The only thing "mobile" in this case is all of the excuses being made for GZ.

AMO~

 

[cityslick]

Your analogy, in this case, doesn't fit IMO. I was simply referring to one's appearance, not any actions they were engaged in. And, in this case, I have seen/heard no evidence of Trayvon being engaged in any suspicious activity - the only thing that GZ based his suspicions on were based on appearance - PERIOD IMO.

Do you deny people judge others on appearance every single day?

Look at the way that woman dresses, can't she afford to wear something nicer?
Look at that kid with his jeans low and underwear showing, he must be a gang banger?
Look at that man dressed in a suit, he must be a very nice guy and smart?

 

[annalia]

ITA, PA. And, BTW, I totally enjoy the way you express yourself so clearly and eloquently.

But I'm not so sure about the BBM above. If I'm not mistaken, Richard Hornsby said it would be admissable in court.

IMO

Haven't we seen in other cases, friends/family testified as to what the defendant said?

I though inadmissible hearsay would be if GZ told someone something and that person told another person, the last person's account would be hearsay? Admissible would be if he told that person directly?

JMHO

 

[suzihawk]

was it pouring? If so, why was TM out walking? I don;t think I recall reading it was pouring, I'd also like to know if it was rainging when he left.

<snipped for political irrelevance>

Why shouldn't he be out walking regardless of whether it was raining or not or how hard it was raining? What difference does that make?

Left where?

 

[cityslick]

Seems to me that someone on the ground being beaten by someone on top pretty well defines the "affair" being "stationary" as opposed to "mobile" and was clearly the ONLY point of my original comment being referenced.

Where did the encounter start (asking him what he was doing there)?

 

[nomoresorrow]

Do you deny people judge others on appearance every single day?

Look at the way that woman dresses, can't she afford to wear something nicer?
Look at that kid with his jeans low and underwear showing, he must be a gang banger?
Look at that man dressed in a suit, he must be a very nice guy and smart?

Again, you're missing my point. I wasn't born yesterday and I'm well aware of the fact that far too many go through life assessing others using a shorthand approach, rather than taking the time to look closer and more deeply. Moving on...

 

[Aedrys]

Are you saying we should just regard everything in the charging document as if it is fact? AC & team charged GZ with 2nd degree murder, so it is fact, they have enough evidence to support the charge??

No one is saying that. We're all waiting for this to go to trial. In the meantime, we can talk about what we believed happened. Just because we agree with the prosecution so far doesn't mean we're rushing to judgment here. Personally, I want to see the trial and what evidence is presented before accusing other people of rushing to judgment. We can talk about this in civilized manner. That's what this forum is for. We can agree to disagree too. We won't know who is really responsible for what happened or even what happened until trial. Now, all we can do is look at what has come out and speculate. It is our right to do that.

 

[annalia]

Your analogy, in this case, doesn't fit IMO. I was simply referring to one's appearance, not any actions they were engaged in. And, in this case, I have seen/heard no evidence of Trayvon being engaged in any suspicious activity - the only thing that GZ based his suspicions on were based on appearance - PERIOD IMO.

And all of the analogies about everyday profiling is apples/oranges and irrelevant to this case, unless all of those people who profile took it upon themselves to claim the ones they were profiling were up to no good and needed to be chased after with a loaded weapon.

Sure we can say that we all profile, we can probably even say that we can even profile people by what they write on the internet, but it all has zilch to do with GZ's profiling that night and what led to the death of a kid. And it's a diversion, to make GZ not so bad that he profiled Trayvon that night.

JMHO

 

[cityslick]

Again, you're missing my point. I wasn't born yesterday and I'm well aware of the fact that far too many go through life assessing others using a shorthand approach, rather than taking the time to look closer and more deeply. Moving on...

This was your point:

(BBM)


RE: BBM ^^ IMO That statement right there sums up why GZ is in the situation he's in today... because he based his suspicions/opinion on Trayvon's appearance. Unlike you it seems, many of us have formulated opinions, not based on the photos of Trayvon or George, but on the information we have/know thus far in this case. JMO~

My point is simply he's in this position because he acted on those suspicions, which may be what you meant anyway.

I agree, way too many judge simply off of appearance, probably a good majority.

 

[suzihawk]

Do you deny people judge others on appearance every single day?

Look at the way that woman dresses, can't she afford to wear something nicer?
Look at that kid with his jeans low and underwear showing, he must be a gang banger?
Look at that man dressed in a suit, he must be a very nice guy and smart?

Or a hoodie even?

Prolly not the best analogy to use in this particular case. Just sayin'.

 

[cityslick]

And all of the analogies about everyday profiling is apples/oranges and irrelevant to this case, unless all of those people who profile took it upon themselves to claim the ones they were profiling were up to no good and needed to be chased after with a loaded weapon.

Sure we can say that we all profile, we can probably even say that we can even profile people by what they write on the internet, but it all has zilch to do with GZ's profiling that night and what led to the death of a kid.


JMHO

BBM

That happens too, sometimes even by LE.

 

[Aedrys]

Again, you're missing my point. I wasn't born yesterday and I'm well aware of the fact that far too many go through life assessing others using a shorthand approach, rather than taking the time to look closer and more deeply. Moving on...

I agree. We all judge. However, just because we judge someone, doesn't give us the right to stalk, assault, or kill someone based on our judgment. GZ should have stayed in his car and let the real authorities handle the situation, but his judgment of Trayvon would not let him do that. That is a lesson I hope GZ has learned through all of this.

 

[cityslick]

Or a hoodie even?

Prolly not the best analogy to use in this particular case. Just sayin'.

Doesn't hide the fact that people still do it. Doesn't make it right.

That's the real elephant in the room. There is a certain percentage of folks who are outraged at this case but would of judged TM the exact same way that night.

 

[annalia]

BBM

That happens too, sometimes even by LE.

GZ isn't LE.

 

[Elley Mae]

Do you deny people judge others on appearance every single day?

Look at the way that woman dresses, can't she afford to wear something nicer?
Look at that kid with his jeans low and underwear showing, he must be a gang banger?
Look at that man dressed in a suit, he must be a very nice guy and smart?

I will and always have looked at people exactly like they present themselves.

 

[PaintingAnemone]

Do you deny people judge others on appearance every single day?

Look at the way that woman dresses, can't she afford to wear something nicer?
Look at that kid with his jeans low and underwear showing, he must be a gang banger?
Look at that man dressed in a suit, he must be a very nice guy and smart?

Judging people privately is one thing, but when those preconceptions are used to assume a person is a criminal and up to no good (and then act on those preconceptions) that's a problem. I've seen it referred to that there was some recent crime in Zimmerman's neighborhood that had been committed by young black men, but that doesn't mean he can freely assume that any young black man is automatically suspect, and that appears to be exactly what he did. That would be the equivalent of me assuming every white male between the ages of 25 and 40 is a possible serial killer. It simply cannot be assumed that a person is committing some sort of crime based on their physical appearance. That is why some sort of indication of wrongdoing (not just "I don't like his looks") is required, hence probable cause.

I think Zimmerman understood this completely, or else he would not have taken care to describe Martin the way he did, i.e. looking at houses, possibly on drugs, hands in his pants, etc. I am unclear as to how much of that would normally be considered suspicious, since he does not say Martin was looking in windows or casing the places - should the kid have stared at the sidewalk his entire way home? - and I don't know how he would have been able to tell Martin was possibly on drugs from his car. It's just a very general, "I don't like how this guy looks," kind of description, IMO.

 

[cityslick]

GZ isn't LE.

Even if he was, it's still doesn't justify the action. You can't go shooting people just because they 'look' a certain way, even if you are LE.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting"]Amadou Diallo shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[LolaMoon08]

Don't be accusing. There are evil-minded people who would make everything a crime, not because they care, but because they can. They condemn everybody: some for what they have done, others for what they may do. It is the sign of a narrow mind, as cruel as it is vile, for they charge so immoderately that of specks they fashion beams with which to put out the eyes. In the midst of excitement, they push everything to extremes. The large soul, on the other hand, finds an excuse for everything, if not in intention then inattention.

The Art of Worldly Wisdom - Baltarsar Gracian

That is my opinion of the type of person George Zimmerman is and the reason Trayvon Martin is dead.

MOO

 

[LolaMoon08]

was it pouring? If so, why was TM out walking? I don;t think I recall reading it was pouring, I'd also like to know if it was rainging when he left.



I do as well, can't wait til he is out of office.

As a Floridian, we walk/run/dance/play/run errands/ in the rain? It's what we do! If we didn't leave our homes everytime it rained here... we would never get anything done. I see you are a Gator fan, so I can only assume that you have lived in Florida?

Walking in the rain in Florida is like walking in the snow up North.