2008.06.09 vs 2008.06.16 Why the Discrepancy?

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Thanks Theonly1.

About the discrepancy or CA having feelings too?

Why do you think the date was reported wrong?

The date being reported wrong and KC being spineless enough to go along with it is one of the biggest mysteries in this case along with WHY ZFG.

My guess, though, is that CA didn't think it through....she probably was not calm and just spouted that date off after a quick glance at the calendar. KC is so terrified of her mother that she just went with it ... maybe hoping it would throw LE off for awhile.
 
I think that MAYBE Casey originally left the Sunday before (June 9) and brought Caylee back for a Father's Day visit with Gr Grandpa ..

I still think this is the case ..
 
Hi Marla. That's my point. If KC left on the 8th or 9th with Caylee, their lives altered that week since KC and Caylee had never stayed away before then beyond a night or two. THAT'S WHY I THINK FATHER'S DAY WOULD BE REMEMBERED AS BEING THE LAST DAY CAYLEE CAME HOME.

Now if Caylee was home the week of the 9th with CA watching her in the evenings as usual, the date mix up would not stand out as much. Noone can figure out where Caylee had been sleeping beyond the night of the 9th. All all of a sudden she's with CA again on June 15. How and when did she get there? Where were KC and Caylee sleeping June 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14? Were they together or apart? CA doesn't say Caylee was at home that week. What were the circumstances leading to Father's Day? If KC and Caylee WERE at home that week why would THAT be overlooked?

Fight around CA's b-day - girls leave - no girls all week - Caylee with CA on 6/15. How? Another fight.

or,

Fight around CA's b-day - girls leave 6/9 - girls return home 6/10 and normal ensues a few more days - CA goes to Mt Dora with only Caylee - returns home - another fight.

Either way, how could they erase a whole week and why?

The error was discovered from pics on their camera. Surely, between the four Ants one of them would of realized their collective error prior to that and corrected themselves to LE. It would be an important enough "detail" to get straight I would think. Unless of course one would like to divert the real timeline for some reason.
 
Hey, WAISI.

OT...but I got a good chuckle outta, "You mean to tell me..." That little phrase says it all.

We should prolly go spend some quality time on the 6/15 thread. I don't know how well we mapped out the key events of that day quite frankly. We have the Nursing home timing, the EPass records to help us know when Cindy & Caylee returned home. Of course, the cell pings. And, IIRC, we may even have a timecard for George. All could be used to better reconstruct 6/15.

Since...
  • George worked that PM and,
  • Cindy was focused more on it bein' Father's Day for her father vs. George,and
  • Casey was focused on Tony-time, and
  • Lee may have been outta town
...Father's Day may not have seemed all that special @ the G&C house last year.

I'm not tryin' to sway one way or the other on intentional vs. unintentional for using 6/9 initially vs. 6/16...just trying to suggest one explanation. With the exception of it being Father's Day the day before (and noted above likely not all that special a designation @ G&C's house last year) the events of 6/9 and 6/16 were very, very similar from George's perspective.

And per, the 6/10-6/14 thread, I'm sure you know I do advocate that Caylee was already sorta missing from G&C's life beginning 6/9....so...hope that helps.

That's another thing - George didn't lift a finger to figure out where his granddaughter was. He can't remember that he took his wife to the beach without Caylee and then did not see Caylee at all for a whole week? No concern, no angst? Or was Caylee with the Ants the week leading up to Father's Day? (with the exception of the 9th)

Why did the Ants not say "we haven't seen Caylee since CA's 50th b-day weekend"? That is significant. "CA was hoping for some attention, had the week off but our children had no time for us and KC was pissed that CA balked about babysitting because CA wanted something special for herself for a change. That is why we remember the EXACT weekend all hell broke loose."

Maybe Father's Day was not important but four people do not loose a whole week of memory at the same time. They chose to alter the date. Why?

THEY ARE REPORTING THE DATE OF THE LAST TIME THEY SAW THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER not when they fought with their daughter. You'd think that would be important enough to put thought into before barking out just any date.
 
Hey, Woe. I understand completely where you're comin' from.

My explanation isn't all that great...its just the one I'm comfortable with based on the information I've seen. There are plenty of holes in any & everything I'm giving you here.

In general, I tend to agree w/ INTN...in haste (recall the state of panic :yow: Cindy was in by the time she placed that 3rd 911 call?)...I think Cindy genuinely made the error. She stated that she looked @ a calendar and got the dates screwed up. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for that initial mistake. I understand you may not.

By the bond hearing, 7/22, Cindy had time to collect her thoughts, but, didn't recant until LE showed her the Father's Day video. I think this supports your argument to a degree. For my mind's model of Cindy-behavior...it just seems she has a hyper-state of denial (perhaps chronic exposure to this is the genesis of Casey's deceitful behavior) and wanted to keep her original date until proven otherwise (a.k.a. bein' just plain stubborn).

We've all had time to sit and mull over this :read:...hindsight being 20/20...with rational minds ...not having our daughter & grandaughter involved, LE :cop: camped out in our home. I just don't apply rational & logical thinking to what Cindy did when she initially picked that date. But, that's just me.

I'm sure you've seen the "6/10-6/14..." thread for my thoughts on what was going on those dates. IIRC, Shadow (or another WS) provided the sourced info that indictated that's when Cindy stated Casey & Caylee had started their "bonding" time trip. The week of Cindy's b-day was supposed to be a "bonding" time for the 3 of them...but, Casey skipped out living :tipsy: la vita loca, bueno/bella-vita/vida/vici [amen] . I'm not prepared to say w/ certainty G&C didn't see Caylee @ all that week...I dunno. I'm inclined to believe they saw Caylee much less that week, and perhaps, not at all. I've not posted the details, but, I have theory of one-upsmanship that I believe may have been going on these weeks beginning ~5/30 between Cindy & Casey...escalating...with Caylee being used as the pawn...reaching the climax 6/15-16.

So....I'm thinkin' in Cindy's stressed mind :hypno: that first week or two, the transition week that started 6/9 may have contributed to her picking that date off the calendar x% and maybe plain human error y%. I think you (Woe) would add in a hefty z% for intentionally picking the date to be deceptive (no?). I think z% may have ramped up from 0% to something after 7/16. So...perhaps there's a place where we cross the same line of thinking, eh?

Casey went along with it. WTH did she have to lose? She was trying to deceive LE from the start. :pinocchio:
 
That's another thing - George didn't lift a finger to figure out where his granddaughter was. He can't remember that he took his wife to the beach without Caylee and then did not see Caylee at all for a whole week? No concern, no angst? Or was Caylee with the Ants the week leading up to Father's Day? (with the exception of the 9th)

Why did the Ants not say "we haven't seen Caylee since CA's 50th b-day weekend"? That is significant. "CA was hoping for some attention, had the week off but our children had no time for us and KC was pissed that CA balked about babysitting because CA wanted something special for herself for a change. That is why we remember the EXACT weekend all hell broke loose."

Maybe Father's Day was not important but four people do not loose a whole week of memory at the same time. They chose to alter the date. Why?

THEY ARE REPORTING THE DATE OF THE LAST TIME THEY SAW THEIR GRANDDAUGHTER not when they fought with their daughter. You'd think that would be important enough to put thought into before barking out just any date.

...all good thoughts IMHO, Woe.

My :twocents: the Anthony's heads were all ('ceptin' Casey) so in a state of shock :eek: that once Cindy came up w/ a date they all ran with it...not stopping to challenge it. Lee made a statement to LE to this effect regarding his opinion of why Casey chose that date, IIRC.

...which, against my better judgement, :poke: tempts me to expand on the dynamic at play, IMHO.

Albeit at very high-risk to taking on a "rant"...I can offer what I'm thinking as to the dynamic in the Anthony's household. And so as not to come across as trying to stereotype anyone...lemme just say I have some personal experience with this one :rolleyes: - your mileage may vary. :)

There's a saying, "If Momma ain't happy...ain't nobody happy." [sic]

And for anyone willing to accept my male perspective (HP notwithstanding apparently :rolleyes:)...with the women in that house behaving the way we've seen them behave...I expect George has long been resigned to stay outta the middle of Cindy-Casey conflicts. He's prolly charged that hill a few times :fight: and borne the wounds. :ouch: :

I AM NOT excusing/condoning/suggesting George being resigned to indiffference where Caylee's safety was involved (recall @ one point he "chased" Casey)...just recognizing that on a day-to-day basis, IMHO, George stayed out of the fights between the two. :argue: Not to mention some apparent financial difficulty George was responsible for digging the family into...I'm sure his opinion was very quickly beatin' down into a "yes, Dear"...when it came to challenging Cindy's opinion. :HBwhiteflag:

FWIW, I've noted before that George called Casey 1 time from his cell phone for the entire period 6/1-6/15...so....FWIW...this is at least one piece of evidence we have that George left dealing w/ Casey to Cindy in general.

OK...I'll expect a few 'incoming' for that...but...there it is...
 
...all good thoughts IMHO, Woe.

My :twocents: the Anthony's heads were all ('ceptin' Casey) so in a state of shock :eek: that once Cindy came up w/ a date they all ran with it...not stopping to challenge it. Lee made a statement to LE to this effect regarding his opinion of why Casey chose that date, IIRC.

...which, against my better judgement, :poke: tempts me to expand on the dynamic at play, IMHO.

Albeit at very high-risk to taking on a "rant"...I can offer what I'm thinking as to the dynamic in the Anthony's household. And so as not to come across as trying to stereotype anyone...lemme just say I have some personal experience with this one :rolleyes: - your mileage may vary. :)

There's a saying, "If Momma ain't happy...ain't nobody happy." [sic]

And for anyone willing to accept my male perspective (HP notwithstanding apparently :rolleyes:)...with the women in that house behaving the way we've seen them behave...I expect George has long been resigned to stay outta the middle of Cindy-Casey conflicts. He's prolly charged that hill a few times and borne the wounds. :HBwhiteflag:

I AM NOT excusing/condoning/suggesting George being resigned to indiffference where Caylee's safety was involved (recall @ one point he "chased" Casey)...just recognizing that on a day-to-day basis, IMHO, George stayed out of the fights between the two. :argue: Not to mention some apparent financial difficulty George was responsible for digging the family into...I'm sure his opinion was very quickly beatin' down into a "yes, Dear"...when it came to challenging Cindy's opinion.

FWIW, I've noted before that George called Casey 1 time from his cell phone for the entire period 6/1-6/15...so....FWIW...this is at least one piece of evidence we have that George left dealing w/ Casey to Cindy in general.

OK...I'll expect a few 'incoming' for that...but...there it is...


And isn't it interesting that when Casey was given the opportunity to pick a family member to meet in private.....who does she pick?? George!

She was hoping for a little of that "Yes, Dear..." from him.

I think you have pinned the family down well.
 
...all good thoughts IMHO, Woe.

My :twocents: the Anthony's heads were all ('ceptin' Casey) so in a state of shock :eek: that once Cindy came up w/ a date they all ran with it...not stopping to challenge it. Lee made a statement to LE to this effect regarding his opinion of why Casey chose that date, IIRC.

...which, against my better judgement, :poke: tempts me to expand on the dynamic at play, IMHO.

Albeit at very high-risk to taking on a "rant"...I can offer what I'm thinking as to the dynamic in the Anthony's household. And so as not to come across as trying to stereotype anyone...lemme just say I have some personal experience with this one :rolleyes: - your mileage may vary. :)

There's a saying, "If Momma ain't happy...ain't nobody happy." [sic]

And for anyone willing to accept my male perspective (HP notwithstanding apparently :rolleyes:)...with the women in that house behaving the way we've seen them behave...I expect George has long been resigned to stay outta the middle of Cindy-Casey conflicts. He's prolly charged that hill a few times and borne the wounds. :HBwhiteflag:

I AM NOT excusing/condoning/suggesting George being resigned to indiffference where Caylee's safety was involved (recall @ one point he "chased" Casey)...just recognizing that on a day-to-day basis, IMHO, George stayed out of the fights between the two. :argue: Not to mention some apparent financial difficulty George was responsible for digging the family into...I'm sure his opinion was very quickly beatin' down into a "yes, Dear"...when it came to challenging Cindy's opinion.

FWIW, I've noted before that George called Casey 1 time from his cell phone for the entire period 6/1-6/15...so....FWIW...this is at least one piece of evidence we have that George left dealing w/ Casey to Cindy in general.

OK...I'll expect a few 'incoming' for that...but...there it is...

I'll give you a :gold_star: for some pretty good insight into that screwy family
 
I'll give you a :gold_star: for some pretty good insight into that screwy family

:) Thanks, Victoria...I feel somewhat uniquely qualified...having a screwy brain inside my head :offtheair: :bang:

:blushing:...sorry to get off the pavement onto the dirt road here...my apologies :blowkiss:

OK...where were we? 6/9 vs. 6/15 :thumb:
 
Hi! I like the illustrations.

Yes, CA may have first said June 9 out of despair and confusion.

She may have reported the date that the big fight took place where she tried to lay down the law to KC which sent KC into "I'll show you" mode. BUT, once she realized her mistake, she did not correct it. Nor did GA.

My advice to all men and women is don't let another person kidnap your brain outta your own head. Keeping peace is one thing as in I don't have to argue every point with my spouse. But there is no excuse for GA's "blind eye" to what was going on in that house.

Why do we think KC and Caylee did not sleep at home the 10th - 14th? I bet Caylee was there on the 14th which is why CA took her up to Mt. Dora with her. Maybe KC stayed with TL and never returned home the morn of the 15th giving CA no choice but to take Caylee with her. It was no longer about Caylee but became about a power play of who should be overseeing her care. I agree, Caylee was lost in the shuffle and what was in her best interest was no longer the focus of either woman's actions.

But GA never stepped into help either. Just saying. If their arrangement was not "traditional" in that CA brought home the bacon, then he best learn how to take over some of the other "unpaid" jobs around the house such as child care or address his daughter himself.
 
Hi! I like the illustrations.

Can you tell I'm bored? :bang:

Why do we think KC and Caylee did not sleep at home the 10th - 14th? I bet Caylee was there on the 14th which is why CA took her up to Mt. Dora with her.
*snipped*

You've, no doubt, heard the saying, "There's liars, there's d@mn liars, and then there's statisticians."...

On the "Seeking new info 6/10-6/14..." thread starting @ post #344 (scroll down here) you can see the basis for my argument Casey & Caylee were @ Lee's. This is on page 14 of a 17-page thread, and it is a pretty-quick read.

To expand on this just a little further, I believe a case can be made with the pings that Casey was @ Lee's (not G&C's) on the afternoon of 6/16 - which allows ruling out a drowning. I'm a little out on a limb with this one because some of the same cell towers service both Lee's (former home) AND G&C's homes. My hypothesis is that when Casey is @ G&C's we see a pretty random pattern of the pings bouncing back'n forth between 2 towers - one to the south and one to the northwest. Further, IMHO, when Casey is @ Lee's (former home) we see a string of pings ONLY from the northwest tower. Of course, other things might explain this phenomena (e.g. cell tower load shifting, etc.)...but...that's what a hypothesis is anyway. JWG has looked at some independent computer forensics data to see if it can support/detract from this hypothesis...so...its kinda an ongoing thing ;)

...I'm getting pretty far down that dirt road now...no GPS either :sonar: ...I'd better turn around.

Anyway...we can take it up on the 6/10-6/14 thread if you wanna. :)
 
I've read that thread over and over. I need it in story form with pics.:yes: I can't hold the facts in my head from thread to thread to piece together something that makes sense to me.

I'm not convinced Lee watched Caylee often. Plus he had roomies. They did not communicate all that much. When KC was looking for a sitter, his number was not dialed (flurried calls).
 
I'm just not buying that all 4 of them "ran" with Cindy's date "mix-up" ..

George, Cindy and Casey all got the date wrong ..
I firmly believe that Casey and Caylee were gone from the Anthony home the week prior, being June 8 or 9 ..
Betcha Caylee was dropped off for Father's Day ..
Casey and Cindy probably had the big blow-out when Casey returned to pick up Caylee ..

I think it will all come out at the trial ..
This maybe why the Anthony's have finally shut up!
 
Marla, if you have not already, please see thread 6/10-14. June 9 and 13 show KC somewhere else other than Hopespring. No concrete evidence for the 10th, 11th and 12th as to where she/they slept as far as I know.
 
Marla, if you have not already, please see thread 6/10-14. June 9 and 13 show KC somewhere else other than Hopespring. No concrete evidence for the 10th, 11th and 12th as to where she/they slept as far as I know.

Will do .. :seeya:
 
Reading back through this thread I see that a number of sleuthers have pointed out what I am about to point out, so please don't get the idea I am trying to take credit for the insights of yolorado, SeriouslySearching, or others. :slap:

Anyhow, I thought it would be instructive to see how the "Caylee last seen" dates evolved in those first few days after the police were called in. I, for one, buy into Bond's idea that Cindy mis-identified the last time she saw Caylee due to nothing more than extreme shock. :shocked2:

The first dates thrown out were in Cindy's last 911 call:
OP: how long has she been missing for?
CA: I have not seen her since the 7th of June.
Cindy may have been thinking 17th of June and just said 7th...who knows? But the fact is clear she had just heard Caylee was kidnapped and unimaginable fear and anxiety must have gripped her at that point.

Mother of the Year finalist KC :princess:then is put on the phone and gives her first version of the timeline:
OP: can you tell me a little bit what's going on?
KC: my daughter's been missing for the last 31 days.
Given the call was made July 15 (very late), this would put Caylee missing on June 14, unless KC does inclusive counting, which would place it on the 15th. But was KC really trying to be precise or was she using precise phrases in an attempt to appear to be helpful? :waitasec:

IMHO, KC used Homer Simpson logic to rationalize the use of "31 days". Something like this:

  1. It's been about a month since I have seen Caylee.
  2. July is a month.
  3. July has 31 days.
  4. It has been 31 days since I have seen Caylee.
  5. "Oooooh...a piece of gum!"
IOW, I don't think KC sat there and counted back in her head to figure out how many days had transpired. She guesstimated.

Later that night, at about 10:15 PM, Cindy writes and signs a statement saying the last time she saw Caylee was Sunday, June 8. Understandable. The Father's Day visit was on a weekend and memorable, but in her agitated state and not looking at a calendar, she simply got it wrong by a week. :bang:

KC writes her statement nearly three hours later. Knowing Cindy said she last saw Caylee on Sunday, June 8, she knows the only way a dropping-Caylee-off-at-nanny scenario will work is if it plays out the next day, Monday June 9. The fact that KC goes along with this scenario convinces me that she did not earlier count the number of days since Caylee went missing and instead did take the Homer Simpson approach of just using a common day-count for a month.

Tony's roommate Roy signs a statement 24 hours later saying KC and Caylee were at his and Tony's place on the 13th. Roy is remembering things a little better than the mother of the year.

A little earlier than that Kristina C. recalls going for a walk with KC and Caylee on the 12th or 13th. I believe we have since determined she got those dates wrong.

Even earlier than that, however, Ricardo is telling LE KC and Caylee spent the night of June 9th with him and they left together on the morning of the 10th.

Eventually Cindy is presented with statments from the good folk at Mt. Dora along with the time stamps from her camera, and realizes she was off by a week. That's fine. She was whacked by the unexpected hurricane KC and was off by a week in her altered state.

KC, on the other hand, went along with the flow. She did not really know.

And she did not care.
 
Heh, I love the Homer Simpson logic! Totally plausible train of thought for Casey, I agree. So much about this case is so confusing and illogical. It may be prudent to ask, "What would Homer do?" in regards to other parts of this case, too:rolleyes:

Whoo hoo! My first post :angel:
 
A little earlier than that Kristina C. recalls going for a walk with KC and Caylee on the 12th or 13th. I believe we have since determined she got those dates wrong.


JWG, What date was it? Do you know? I have not read about this change.
 
JWG said:
A little earlier than that Kristina C. recalls going for a walk with KC and Caylee on the 12th or 13th. I believe we have since determined she got those dates wrong.


JWG, What date was it? Do you know? I have not read about this change.

I must have missed it too ..
When did "we" determine Kristina got her dates wrong?
 
I must have missed it too ..
When did "we" determine Kristina got her dates wrong?

Marla, perhaps the most comprehensive post can be found here. The net is we could not find evidence of KC being in the area of Lake Underhill in early June at the hours Kristina said they got together (or any other time, for that matter). We did find evidence of KC being in the area of Jay Blanchard Park on June 13 at hours that could be consistent with Kristina's statements. However, you will see a lot of speculation as to what went on.
 

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