4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

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Actually what he was doing is very common among those who suffer from OCD. Many OCD sufferers do this and feel great shame about it. Their families will typically get on them about this, but it is done by the OCD sufferer to relieve stress. He likely was doing it in the middle of the night and putting it in the neighbor's trash so his family would not know he was doing it. JMO
Is there an actual source to him having actual OCD (not just "eating OCD" or whatever his aunt claimed) or is this just massive speculation to force a circular peg into a square hole?
 
I'm wondering about the human and animal hairs. If the hair doesn't match any of the victims then whose is it?! If it doesn't match the victims or their pets, will we ever learn where the hair came from or what kind of animal it belongs to?
[snipped BM] I hope we do but I believe we can't discuss why.

jmo
 
Not really. We actually have no idea if the defense have run the DNA or not. But, AT wouldn't be fighting so hard to get the information on the processing of the DNA by LE if she didn't think something is very, very wrong with it. I can think of a few ways AT may know that there is something majorly wrong with the prosecution's DNA evidence.

If AT thought the DNA was right she would just cast doubt on the veracity by having experts explain how touch DNA gets everywhere. But that's not what AT is doing. That tells me AT's experts likely could not replicate the prosecutions DNA results.

Meanwhile, the prosecutor is doing all he can to hide that information and acts as though he is privileged and shouldn't be questioned and even gets angry when AT asks for it. That's not normal.

If the prosecution is certain his DNA evidence is correct he should have 0 qualms about sharing the details of the entire process with the defense. The fact he is fighting so hard not to disclose the process, which is required to be documented by the FBI, makes it look like he has no confidence in the veracity of what was done. So, instead of simply requesting that the FBI give him the information, he's doing all he can to purposefully avoid getting it.

All JMO.
Is she though?

It seemed at the last hearing the issues she was still unsatisfied with were requests regarding the IGG and the three unknown dna profiles.

The processing and matching of the dna on the sheath to BK is completely separate from the IGG.
 
Is she though?

It seemed at the last hearing the issues she was still unsatisfied with were requests regarding the IGG and the three unknown dna profiles.

The processing and matching of the dna on the sheath to BK is completely separate from the IGG.
Right... there seems to be a lot of conflation occurring between the DNA processing and analysis and IGG... not sure if that's intentional or not, but it's certainly a head-scratcher.

From the motion for protective order:

motion-for-protective-order.png
This is, IMO, very clear and leaves little that is open to interpretation.
 
so the family finding no trash in their bins is less odd? im much more likely to notice no trash in my bins and be weirded out than trash that's been separated into individual bags.

especially if any of my sisters' (i personally have two, too), who i spent all of childhood and my young adult college years living with, were OCD...id definitely know about. if separating trash was something they were compelled to do that wouldn't be anything unusual.

but when you look at reports of how his sister felt...her spidey senses went off. i wouldn't be surprised at all if the trash had something to do with that.

she knows him much much much much better than any of us or our speculation. her reported reaction to his behavior tells us all we need to know!
I believe he was only sorting his own trash into individual bags, although it could have been the family trash, IDK. But this is not an unusual behavior for someone with OCD and he did report himself as having that in his online posts.

The report about his sister - that is only rumor. <modsnip>

"Sources told NBC’s Dateline that one of the accused killer’s older siblings grew increasingly suspicious of her brother and his behaviour when the family gathered to spend the holidays together."

<modsnip>
 
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Actually what he was doing is very common among those who suffer from OCD. Many OCD sufferers do this and feel great shame about it. Their families will typically get on them about this, but it is done by the OCD sufferer to relieve stress. He likely was doing it in the middle of the night and putting it in the neighbor's trash so his family would not know he was doing it. JMO
I respect people's willingness to keep an open mind on all matters of this, or any, case. It's at the core of "innocent until proven guilty."

However, when we have a suspect who has been formally charged, and we have court documents to show probable cause, then at some point I have to ask myself...how much benefit of doubt do I give this person? He's still "innocent until proven guilty," of course, and that doesn't change until a plea or conviction. This must be kept at the forefront, imo, along with the fact that we only know a small fraction of the evidence. But, it can also go too far the other way.

In order for BK to truly be innocent, we have to accept a lot of assumptions the other way. We would have to accept the likelihood of either LE misconduct, genetics laboratory mistakes, or otherwise ineptness or underhandedness on some level. We would have to accept that the DNA on the sheath was placed there by someone else, or misidentified by the lab, and it was done so before any Kohberger sample was even taken. We'd have to accept that the person whose DNA swab (BK) mistakenly matched to the sheath DNA, also drove the same kind of car seen coming and going from the crime scene. We would then have to accept that this same person and car just happened to belong to someone who likes to drive around within a relatively short cell tower range of King rd., in the wee early morning hours, and did so at least twelve other times prior to the murders, with no known explanation.

Then we have to accept that since he wore gloves and was putting his garbage in ziplock bags and distributing them in neighbor's trash cans, again in the wee early morning hours, that he must have OCD and not be trying to hide anything related to the crime that happened at the King rd. house. The house he'd driven close to twelve times prior, and that a car just like his was at during the murders while he was admittedly out driving around, and where by mistake or misconduct, his DNA was found under one of the victims.

There is a LOT we don't know yet, but I don't feel like a laboratory mistake or LE misconduct can explain BK's before and after behaviors. If I took them apart and looked at each behavior one at a time, okay, maybe they are unrelated to the crime. But as a whole, I'm having a hard time fighting for his innocence, especially considering the number of factors involved, including DNA. JMO.
 
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Not really. We actually have no idea if the defense have run the DNA or not. But, AT wouldn't be fighting so hard to get the information on the processing of the DNA by LE if she didn't think something is very, very wrong with it. I can think of a few ways AT may know that there is something majorly wrong with the prosecution's DNA evidence.

If AT thought the DNA was right she would just cast doubt on the veracity by having experts explain how touch DNA gets everywhere. But that's not what AT is doing. That tells me AT's experts likely could not replicate the prosecutions DNA results.

Meanwhile, the prosecutor is doing all he can to hide that information and acts as though he is privileged and shouldn't be questioned and even gets angry when AT asks for it. That's not normal.

If the prosecution is certain his DNA evidence is correct he should have 0 qualms about sharing the details of the entire process with the defense. The fact he is fighting so hard not to disclose the process, which is required to be documented by the FBI, makes it look like he has no confidence in the veracity of what was done. So, instead of simply requesting that the FBI give him the information, he's doing all he can to purposefully avoid getting it.

All JMO.
Respectfully, how do you know what AT thinks?

Plus, the scenario you describe is incorrect as I recall it. The Idaho State Police lab processed the DNA. The FBI did the IGG. AT has not had to request any DNA, so it wouldn't be possible for the P to become angry when AT requested the DNA.

The P did react with a bit of outrage over the unidentified DNA when she tried to make it sound suspicious that it hadn't been submitted to COD, and the P said she knew it didn't qualify for CODIS. That's not at all the same thing as what you describe above nor does it indicate anything sinister IMO. MOOooo
 
I respect people's willingness to keep an open mind on all matters of this, or any, case. It's at the core of "innocent until proven guilty."

However, when we have a suspect who has been formally charged, and we have court documents to show probable cause, then at some point I have to ask myself...how much benefit of doubt do I give this person?
I am all for not stoning people and I have probably annoyed several people on several threads with keeping my mind open about if the most popular theory for the culprit is the correct one or not.

However, in this case I'll eat my hat if he is not guilty.
In the beginning I thought that maybe there could be like the tiniest possibility that he did not do it alone, but yeah, no way. MOO
 
In order for BK to truly be innocent, we have to accept a lot of assumptions the other way.

We would also have to accept that there’s still a mass college student murderer on the loose. No one seems worried about that. On either side. And indeed there have been no more similar murders, despite the fact that whoever killed Maddie, Kaylee, Ethan, and Xana had to have been very, very angry, and very willing to murder.
 
I respect people's willingness to keep an open mind on all matters of this, or any, case. It's at the core of "innocent until proven guilty."

However, when we have a suspect who has been formally charged, and we have court documents to show probable cause, then at some point I have to ask myself...how much benefit of doubt do I give this person? He's still "innocent until proven guilty," of course, and that doesn't change until a plea or conviction. This must be kept at the forefront, imo, along with the fact that we only know a small fraction of the evidence. But, it can also go too far the other way.
Either way we need to consider all possibilities.
In order for BK to truly be innocent, we have to accept a lot of assumptions the other way. We would have to accept the likelihood of either LE misconduct, genetics laboratory mistakes, or otherwise ineptness or underhandedness on some level. We would have to accept that the DNA on the sheath was placed there by someone else, or misidentified by the lab, and it was done so before any Kohberger sample was even taken.
Yes, any of this is possible. His lawyer is having to fight hard to discover the entire process used. She has already described it as a "bizarre experiment" in a court document. I don't think she would make that allegation unless something is very wrong.
We'd have to accept that the person whose DNA swab (BK) mistakenly matched to the sheath DNA, also drove the same kind of car seen coming and going from the crime scene.
With some 33,000 white Elantras in the area, this is NOT impossible AND there is ZERO evidence that the Elantra in Pullman was the same Elantra in Moscow on the night of the murders nor that the occupant of the Elantra ever went inside 1122 King Rd. And why the circling? Because that makes no sense at all, especially with a criminology student who would know he didn't want his car to be noticed if he were to commit such a crime. Whoever was in the white car was circling for some reason. That vehicle may have had nothing at all to do with the murders.
We would then have to accept that this same person and car just happened to belong to someone who likes to drive around within a relatively short cell tower range of King rd., in the wee early morning hours, and did so at least twelve other times prior to the murders, with no known explanation.
The cell tower that 1122 King Rd uses is on Paradise Creek St. This is also the cell tower that is used by the UofI library which is .8 mile from 1122 King Rd AND just so happens to be open until 2am. There is reciprocity between WSU and UofI. You can see it listed here - WSU students enjoy library privileges at UofI:

BK is a PhD candidate. PhD candidates have to do research. IMO, it is much more likely that those 12 times he was in range of the cell tower, he was actually at the UofI library than that he was at 1122 King Rd. When I was in grad school, I went to the library at another school that had a medical library because my university library didn't have the materials I needed. I went about a dozen times and then never again because I had exhausted my options for research for that specific project and was deep into the writing stage of my paper. I didn't need the medical library again because the project was in the completion stages. It is more likely, IMO, that a PhD student was doing late night research at the nearby UofI library than murdering 4 people he didn't even know, especially when there is zero DNA evidence in his car, apartment, office and family home linking him to any of the victims. He didn't know the victims and apparently didn't know of the victims. That's just common sense. But, IMO, the person who wrote the PCA doesn't understand what PhD students do, so, IMO, he didn't realize that there could be a simple and innocent explanation for BK being in the area.

Then we have to accept that since he wore gloves and was putting his garbage in ziplock bags and distributing them in neighbor's trash cans, again in the wee early morning hours, that he must have OCD and not be trying to hide anything related to the crime that happened at the King rd. house.
Wearing gloves and sorting trash are both OCD behaviors. There is a real fear of contamination by people with OCD. I don't think BK's parents and sisters were vegan and he is so sensitive about this his aunt said he wouldn't accept vegetables cooked in pans that had previously ever had meat cooked in them. People with OCD wear gloves to try to prevent germs from touching their skin.



Let me point out, that LE apparently didn't find anything of interest in his sorted trash or I'm pretty sure that would have been leaked to the media as Ohio is not under the gag order. BK would have had anxiety as he knew things were going wrong at school and he had been fired from this TA job. He clearly had not told his father of his troubles at school on the drive home and also I'm pretty sure he knew his parents could not pay for him to take these classes, so he was going to have to find another job to continue at WSU or not go back and apply to a different school. That is enough to cause anyone anxiety. So these unusual behaviors of wearing gloves and sorting trash don't surprise me.
There is a LOT we don't know yet, but I don't feel like a laboratory mistake or LE misconduct can explain BK's before and after behaviors. If I took them apart and looked at each behavior one at a time, okay, maybe they are unrelated to the crime. But as a whole, I'm having a hard time fighting for his innocence, especially considering the number of factors involved, including DNA. JMO.
The ONLY evidence is his DNA allegedly on the sheath. But it is touch DNA which could have gotten on the sheath without BK ever being in the presence of the sheath. Again, I think his attorney knows something is very wrong with the DNA and is fighting for him.

Everything in the PCA and in regards to BK's behavior can be explained using common sense and reasoning. I really hope that the prosecution has a lot more evidence because, if not, this looks more likely to be a case of false arrest than not. Still, I want to hear the prosecution's case before deciding for myself, but so far, it seems to me that their case is quite weak.

All JMOO.
 
Well there is this...

The Trash Pick-up/Policies as per the Indian Mountain Lake Deed Restrictions of his parents subdivision where BK was allegedly sealing trash in bags prior to his arrest:

"Trash, garbage and or other waste must be kept in sealed bags which are to be placed in sealed containers with lids. No loose bags are permitted. All trash containers/receptacles must be properly secured and maintained in good repair. There is a 5 can limit for garbage collection."

My parents subdivision in the mountains has that same regulation. But it is not asking them to use ziplock baggies. It just means that when they put their trash out, the large garbage bags need to be tied off at the ends, so trash doesn't fall out when the truck dumps the bins out.

It certainly didn't call for the ritual that BK was carrying out in the middle of the night. JMO
 
How do you know the defense haven't done their own DNA and IGG? And if defense has done it, what IF they got a completely different result? IF that has happened, it explains why AT really wants to see the prosecution's DNA process. She has described the prosecution's IGG result as the result of a "bizarre experiment." AT may well know something important the prosecution doesn't know.

It is clear that whatever the problem AT has detected with the DNA, they are considering that the result may have come from an intermittent software error or contamination:
View attachment 444741
All JMO.
If the DT had done their own test, and it came back that BK did not match the unknown sheath DNA, there would have already been an emergency hearing and he would be out already, while things were being cleared up.

No way AT would be messing with the constitutionality of the Grand Jury proceedings if she had already proven his DNA was not a match.
 
This. IMO. I've noticed that. If he didn't feel threatened he'd keep his cool.
Maybe he is feeling annoyed as opposed to threatened? He may feel she is being purposely misleading in court at times and she is filing endless time consuming motions and trying to sway public opinion. It might be aggravating and stressful.
 
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I would ignore that statement since it has no source. What we do know from sources though is that DNA has helped to exonerate 575 people. So, I'm not sure why it's being twisted into DNA can wrongly convict an innocent person?

In fact, The Innocence Project (link below) makes the argument that DNA testing should be available to all defendants. So, they seem more than comfortable with it/confident in it. jmo Some of the wrongfully convicted confessed against themselves; others had an informant lying or a faulty eyewitness identification.

I see no wrongful convictions where the DNA of the convicted was shown to be a match to the DNA retrieved from the crime scene.

jmo

dna-and-wrongful-conviction-five-facts-you-should-know
 
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