4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #88

[Jurisprudence]

Maybe he is feeling annoyed as opposed to threatened? He may feel she is being purposely misleading in court at times and she is filing endless time consuming motions and trying to sway public opinion. It might be aggravating and stressful.

Agree. I wouldn't feel threatened and would have lost it a long time ago - specifically with the first Motion to Compel made public in the face of a gag order putting forward many inaccurate statements. Imo, they have exhibited considerable restraint. She's accused them of misconduct and LE of planting evidence. This is theatre for public consumption imo. And, I would have made a motion asking the court to stop her from making any such further statements without proof or, face sanctions - especially since he has gagged the case.

jmo

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

Everything in the PCA and in regards to BK's behavior can be explained using common sense and reasoning. I really hope that the prosecution has a lot more evidence because, if not, this looks more likely to be a case of false arrest than not. Still, I want to hear the prosecution's case before deciding for myself, but so far, it seems to me that their case is quite weak.

All JMOO.

RSABBM

Really? Am I misunderstanding the bolded portion? This statement implies that BK should not have been arrested. Is that what you meant to convey?

 

[10ofRods]

Is there an actual source to him having actual OCD (not just "eating OCD" or whatever his aunt claimed) or is this just massive speculation to force a circular peg into a square hole?

There are quite a few positions in between "Verified OCD" and "massive speculation."

First, there's also OCP (distinct from OCD - takes real clinical skill to decide which is which).

And the fact that some people/nations define addiction as a form of compulsive behavior is a factor. Over-eating, etc. is defined in some catalogues of mental illness as OCD or OCP.

The source on "OCD" is his aunt, as you state.

The source on his addiction are friends from high school (and there's been no challenge raised by the family). The addiction fits with the phone-stealing thing.

Is the stealing a compulsion? Not sure how this matters to non-treating lay persons.

"Actual" OCD is complex, and often diagnosed when particular medications work, or there is a strong family history. None of this is completely clear, even in the academic literature. Here's my own run-down (based on professional experience) of the symptoms of OCD (with the goal of allowing all of you to make up your own minds - as it does not appear that Kohberger has clear diagnoses or therapeutic relationships with anyone resembling a Mental Health Professional):

Here are the three main traits of OCD (NOT OCP):

• obsessions – where an unwanted, intrusive and often distressing thought, image or urge repeatedly enters your mind
• emotions – the obsession causes a feeling of intense anxiety or distress
• compulsions – repetitive behaviours or mental acts that a person with OCD feels driven to perform as a result of the anxiety and distress caused by the obsession.

No one can prohibit an aunt or other person from giving an opinion. However, there's no evidence that BK had so much anxiety that he was repeatedly performing the same actions. So, if it is the case that he was (for example) afraid of getting blood/body fluids on himself, we don't know that. We don't know if he was repeatedly cleaning things, etc.

IMPO.

 

[10ofRods]

There are 1,167 registered wrongful convictions for murder in the US.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/report-black-people-7-5-times-more-likely-to-be-wrongfully-convicted-of-murder-than-whites-risk-even-greater-if-victim-was-white

I'd prefer a juried publication but thank you for providing a link. (It doesn't give a lot of information on the overall topic - but it's a difficult one to research).

Your data deals with Black people. Those of us who are people of color are quite interested - but AFAIK, BK is not a black person. Part of this data is about showing that there are disparities related to skin color/perceived "race."

Are you saying these stats apply to a "white" male?

 

[kittythehare]

This. IMO. I've noticed that. If he didn't feel threatened he'd keep his cool.

I personally have great difficulties in keeping my cool while following this non saga which is exactly the same as every other saga that typically occurs in every case. I find it tedious, like contemplating a vacuum would be.

I am not the prosecutor.
I do not feel threatened.

 

[m00c0w]

Just a couple of points out of this:

Yes, any of this is possible. His lawyer is having to fight hard to discover the entire process used. She has already described it as a "bizarre experiment" in a court document. I don't think she would make that allegation unless something is very wrong.

Defense attorneys use this type of language all the time. They would be pretty bad defense attorneys if they weren't trying to cast doubt over every part of the process possible... I don't find it remarkable that this defense attorney is doing exactly that.

With some 33,000 white Elantras in the area, this is NOT impossible AND there is ZERO evidence that the Elantra in Pullman was the same Elantra in Moscow on the night of the murders nor that the occupant of the Elantra ever went inside 1122 King Rd. And why the circling? Because that makes no sense at all, especially with a criminology student who would know he didn't want his car to be noticed if he were to commit such a crime. Whoever was in the white car was circling for some reason. That vehicle may have had nothing at all to do with the murders.

Where did you get that there are 33k white Elantras in the area? There are only 25k people in Moscow, for instance. 32k in Pullman. That's... quite a large ratio of white Elantras to residents. Additionally, there is evidence that the occupant of BK's elantra went inside 1122 King Rd, in the form of a knife sheath with BK's DNA on it. And an eyewitness account of a male stranger inside the residence that fit his general description. Additionally, this white Elantra bore a distinct feature - it didn't have a front license plate.

The cell tower that 1122 King Rd uses is on Paradise Creek St. This is also the cell tower that is used by the UofI library which is .8 mile from 1122 King Rd AND just so happens to be open until 2am. There is reciprocity between WSU and UofI. You can see it listed here - WSU students enjoy library privileges at UofI:

I'm not a student (or not a student anymore). Can I still check out materials? - LibAnswers

libanswers.uidaho.edu

Do you know how FBI CAST performs their analysis? And that they have experts that will testify on behalf of this analysis? When you get historical cell site data, you get both the azimuth of the connection and signal strength. CAST will go out and do site surveys to determine where the signal strength best aligns with the report. (https://vault.fbi.gov/cellular-anal...survey-team-policy-guide-0997pg-part-01-of-01 - section 4.5.5 covers this)

They're not just looking at what cell tower the phone connected to and blindly guessing.

The ONLY evidence is his DNA allegedly on the sheath. But it is touch DNA which could have gotten on the sheath without BK ever being in the presence of the sheath. Again, I think his attorney knows something is very wrong with the DNA and is fighting for him.

You're just waving away a lot of circumstantial evidence because it is inconvenient. That is not the "only" evidence, nor do we have anything but a defense assertion that it's even "touch" DNA.

Everything in the PCA and in regards to BK's behavior can be explained using common sense and reasoning. I really hope that the prosecution has a lot more evidence because, if not, this looks more likely to be a case of false arrest than not. Still, I want to hear the prosecution's case before deciding for myself, but so far, it seems to me that their case is quite weak.

All JMOO.

You seem to be under the impression that there may have been technical errors in processing the SNP profile that was retrieved from the knife sheath that pointed to BK in IGG, that also seemed to carry over when the STR DNA profile was built. And these errors coincidentally matched the DNA of the buccal swab from someone who lives in a nearby town, owns a white elantra with no front license plate that frequents that area, whose physical description matches that of the person seen inside the house at the time of the murder, whose phone was turned off during the time of the murder, but activity shows it going towards and away from the homicide location before and after the homicides, respectively.

All one big misunderstanding. Unluckiest man ever.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

The cell tower that 1122 King Rd uses is on Paradise Creek St. This is also the cell tower that is used by the UofI library which is .8 mile from 1122 King Rd AND just so happens to be open until 2am. There is reciprocity between WSU and UofI. You can see it listed here - WSU students enjoy library privileges at UofI:

The geofence warrant (or whatever it was called) was for cell numbers within 1/2 mile of the King Rd house. I am one who tends to believe that cell tower data can be accurate within a lot closer proximity than others might think. The geofence warrants proves it within a 1/2 mile, at least.

It is more likely, IMO, that a PhD student was doing late night research at the nearby UofI library than murdering 4 people he didn't even know, especially when there is zero DNA evidence in his car, apartment, office and family home linking him to any of the victims. He didn't know the victims and apparently didn't know of the victims. That's just common sense. But, IMO, the person who wrote the PCA doesn't understand what PhD students do, so, IMO, he didn't realize that there could be a simple and innocent explanation for BK being in the area.

LE knows if the cell phone was moving during those 12 other times, IMO, by comparing the cell pings in different sectors. And what about his cell reportedly "touching" the King Rd. wifi? I'm not just going to accept that as rumor but then fully believe BK was hard at work studying criminology until 2am at the UofI library. He doesn't even attend UofI.

With some 33,000 white Elantras in the area, this is NOT impossible AND there is ZERO evidence that the Elantra in Pullman was the same Elantra in Moscow on the night of the murders nor that the occupant of the Elantra ever went inside 1122 King Rd.

I've mentioned the lack of camera footage showing the white elantra exiting Pullman or entering Moscow. I also see this as a problem and hope the prosecution has more footage than what was in the PCA. I think they probably do. But, I'm not dissuaded by the "33,000" number, or "in the area," which is vague. And how many of those white elantras were driving around at 3 or 4am on the 13th? And the one circling the King Rd house cannot just be dismissed. There is other digital evidence confirming some of the events and timing, so just because there isn't full camera footage of the car parking and the driver entering the house and committing the crime doesn't mean it isn't involved. We'll have to see how all the evidence combines.

The ONLY evidence is his DNA allegedly on the sheath. But it is touch DNA which could have gotten on the sheath without BK ever being in the presence of the sheath. Again, I think his attorney knows something is very wrong with the DNA and is fighting for him.

I've heard it's touch DNA but don't know what the source is for that.

What it would seem to come down to is that the DNA evidence is surreptitious, LE and the laboratory are mistaken, camera footage is worthless, cell tower data is inaccurate, but BK is innocent because common sense says he's obviously OCD, studies all night at a different university library, drives the same car as 33,000 other people at 3am within a 1/2 mile of King road, over and over again, innocently, except it's not his car there the night of the murders because his phone was off.

I'm all for questioning the evidence and making sure LE and the prosecution are doing their jobs correctly. I really am. I see some holes that I'd like filled in this case, as well. But AT better have a lot more believable excuses than anything I've read here. BK's "driving around" is more believable. JMO.

 

[Helechawagirl]

Bryan Kohberger's trial postponed after he waived right to speedy trial - Internewscast Journal

MOSCOW, Idaho — The trial for a man accused of stabbing four University of Idaho students to death late last year will not happen as scheduled on Oct. 2.

internewscast.com

Something seems different with his expression... can't put my finger on it.....From August 23rd, 2023
View attachment 442670

His face looks fuller, almost puffy.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Either way we need to consider all possibilities.

Yes, any of this is possible. His lawyer is having to fight hard to discover the entire process used. She has already described it as a "bizarre experiment" in a court document. I don't think she would make that allegation unless something is very wrong.

Which document? TIA

With some 33,000 white Elantras in the area, this is NOT impossible AND there is ZERO evidence that the Elantra in Pullman was the same Elantra in Moscow on the night of the murders nor that the occupant of the Elantra ever went inside 1122 King Rd. And why the circling? Because that makes no sense at all, especially with a criminology student who would know he didn't want his car to be noticed if he were to commit such a crime. Whoever was in the white car was circling for some reason. That vehicle may have had nothing at all to do with the murders.

This is not a true statement imo. The only evidence we have lends itself to it being more probable than not that it is his car. If you know for certain that there is no evidence his car was there please share it.

The cell tower that 1122 King Rd uses is on Paradise Creek St. This is also the cell tower that is used by the UofI library which is .8 mile from 1122 King Rd AND just so happens to be open until 2am. There is reciprocity between WSU and UofI. You can see it listed here - WSU students enjoy library privileges at UofI:

I'm not a student (or not a student anymore). Can I still check out materials? - LibAnswers

libanswers.uidaho.edu

BK is a PhD candidate. PhD candidates have to do research. IMO, it is much more likely that those 12 times he was in range of the cell tower, he was actually at the UofI library than that he was at 1122 King Rd. When I was in grad school, I went to the library at another school that had a medical library because my university library didn't have the materials I needed. I went about a dozen times and then never again because I had exhausted my options for research for that specific project and was deep into the writing stage of my paper. I didn't need the medical library again because the project was in the completion stages. It is more likely, IMO, that a PhD student was doing late night research at the nearby UofI library than murdering 4 people he didn't even know, especially when there is zero DNA evidence in his car, apartment, office and family home linking him to any of the victims. He didn't know the victims and apparently didn't know of the victims. That's just common sense. But, IMO, the person who wrote the PCA doesn't understand what PhD students do, so, IMO, he didn't realize that there could be a simple and innocent explanation for BK being in the area.

His alibi as provided by the defense is that he was driving around alone. Not that he was at a library at a school other than his own, across the border in the State of Idaho. jmo

Wearing gloves and sorting trash are both OCD behaviors. There is a real fear of contamination by people with OCD. I don't think BK's parents and sisters were vegan and he is so sensitive about this his aunt said he wouldn't accept vegetables cooked in pans that had previously ever had meat cooked in them. People with OCD wear gloves to try to prevent germs from touching their skin.

Contamination OCD | Made of Millions Foundation

Contamination OCD is a subset of Obsessive Compulsive Disorder in which a person experiences intense fears about being contaminated by germs or diseases.

www.madeofmillions.com

OCD & Contamination: Washing & Cleaning Compulsions/Rituals

List of common OCD rituals/compulsions related to germs|contamination|disease: handwashing, cleaning, showering, disinfecting, sanitizing, & toileting.

www.steveseay.com

Everything You Need to Know About Contamination OCD - Impulse

There may be no illness more self-diagnosed than obsessive compulsive disorder. In fact, it’s commonplace to hear people exclaim that they’re “so OCD” because they prefer a tidy house or they wash their hands before sitting down at the dinner table.

impulsetherapy.com

In the dark in the middle of the night in one's kitchen?

Let me point out, that LE apparently didn't find anything of interest in his sorted trash or I'm pretty sure that would have been leaked to the media as Ohio is not under the gag order. BK would have had anxiety as he knew things were going wrong at school and he had been fired from this TA job. He clearly had not told his father of his troubles at school on the drive home and also I'm pretty sure he knew his parents could not pay for him to take these classes, so he was going to have to find another job to continue at WSU or not go back and apply to a different school. That is enough to cause anyone anxiety. So these unusual behaviors of wearing gloves and sorting trash don't surprise me.

Source please.

The ONLY evidence is his DNA allegedly on the sheath. But it is touch DNA which could have gotten on the sheath without BK ever being in the presence of the sheath. Again, I think his attorney knows something is very wrong with the DNA and is fighting for him.

Source please.

Everything in the PCA and in regards to BK's behavior can be explained using common sense and reasoning. I really hope that the prosecution has a lot more evidence because, if not, this looks more likely to be a case of false arrest than not. Still, I want to hear the prosecution's case before deciding for myself, but so far, it seems to me that their case is quite weak.

All JMOO.

MOO - They get one bite at the apple here. It's the way our judicial system works in the US. This is not false arrest imo and any allegation of this is not appropriate imo.

 

[maconrich]

I want to ask a stupid question, so I apologize in advance.

How do we know BK was sorting his own trash? As in opposed to say sorting veggie or fruit peelings, bones, etc from the rest of the trash?

IIRC so IMO, there were anon comments 1. he was observed taking his trash to a neighbor's bin, and 2. at time LE busted into the house he was apparently sorting his trash - although it was later stated he was on the stairs (going down to the basement) - which isn't necessarily a contradiction.

But, again, do we actually know that he was sorting his own trash?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I want to ask a stupid question, so I apologize in advance.

How do we know BK was sorting his own trash? As in opposed to say sorting veggie or fruit peelings, bones, etc from the rest of the trash?

IIRC so IMO, there were anon comments 1. he was observed taking his trash to a neighbor's bin, and 2. at time LE busted into the house he was apparently sorting his trash - although it was later stated he was on the stairs (going down to the basement) - which isn't necessarily a contradiction.

But, again, do we actually know that he was sorting his own trash?

Not a stupid question, but I would have to ask why sort peelings into a separate zip lock bag? And more concerning, discarding them into a neighbors trash bin under the cover of darkness? It just doesn't make logical sense to me.

MOO

 

[Nova]

...
Whenever the media uses "unnamed sources" that is a guarantee that they are making up the story. Thus far other than one brief statement from BK's family, BK's parents and sisters have not spoken to media.

(Emphasis added.)

Mark Felt, a/k/a "Deep Throat", begs to differ.

 

[kittythehare]

I want to ask a stupid question, so I apologize in advance.

How do we know BK was sorting his own trash? As in opposed to say sorting veggie or fruit peelings, bones, etc from the rest of the trash?

IIRC so IMO, there were anon comments 1. he was observed taking his trash to a neighbor's bin, and 2. at time LE busted into the house he was apparently sorting his trash - although it was later stated he was on the stairs (going down to the basement) - which isn't necessarily a contradiction.

But, again, do we actually know that he was sorting his own trash?

we don't know. lE impounded the dumpster so they certainly do know.
i imagine the tip came from them if you're referring to something not on pCA?

 

[maconrich]

Not a stupid question, but I would have to ask why sort peelings into a separate zip lock bag? And more concerning, discarding them into a neighbors trash bin under the cover of darkness? It just doesn't make logical sense to me.

MOO

Thank you for being kind ♥ Why? I don't know - a quirk? Wants the veggies to be together, etc? Does help keep the kitchen trash bin from getting stinky so fast, so maybe sensitive to smells? Again, I don't know. But I mainly wasn't sure how that know it was just his personal trash. I've pretty much thought it probably was then realized I could be making assumptions.

@kittythehare that you too! I don't think it was in the PCA - possibly from LE in PA? Total speculation because IIRC a source wasn't named.

Edited to change a how to a that.

 

[Chloegirl]

I want to ask a stupid question, so I apologize in advance.

How do we know BK was sorting his own trash? As in opposed to say sorting veggie or fruit peelings, bones, etc from the rest of the trash?

IIRC so IMO, there were anon comments 1. he was observed taking his trash to a neighbor's bin, and 2. at time LE busted into the house he was apparently sorting his trash - although it was later stated he was on the stairs (going down to the basement) - which isn't necessarily a contradiction.

But, again, do we actually know that he was sorting his own trash?

MSN

This is one of the sources

 

[maconrich]

MSN

This is one of the sources

A named source, Monroe County First Assistant District Attorney Michael Mancuso. Thank you! So Mancusco is putting two and two together (more or less) IMO.

"The 28-year-old suspect was also “wearing latex medical-type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into separate Ziploc baggies,” Mancuso said."

and

" Hiding his trash, Mancuso suggested, could explain why “the trash pull that was done days before” the raid had only detected DNA profiles of his family members “but not from him.”

MSN

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

A named source, Monroe County First Assistant District Attorney Michael Mancuso. Thank you! So Mancusco is putting two and two together (more or less) IMO.

"The 28-year-old suspect was also “wearing latex medical-type gloves and apparently was taking his personal trash and putting it into separate Ziploc baggies,” Mancuso said."

and

" Hiding his trash, Mancuso suggested, could explain why “the trash pull that was done days before” the raid had only detected DNA profiles of his family members “but not from him.”

MSN

At that point surely BK must have assumed that LE had his DNA (from the sheath / house) and that's what LE would search for, looking for a match.

So he put his own trash in other people's waste bins, probably in ziplock bags with bleach sprayed into them or something, in the hope that he would remain not located.

But surely he of all people would know that if LE did have his DNA they wouldn't stop trying to find him - and he must have surely known he could have lost a hair or some clothing fibre or spittle or sweat or even cut himself slightly as well as the left behind sheath. He would have surely known that simply putting his own trash elsewhere wasn't enough and also that must mean he knew for sure they were likely on to him.

I reckon when he had the traffic stops, at that point, he would know 100%

 

[Kemug]

There are 1,167 registered wrongful convictions for murder in the US.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/news/report-black-people-7-5-times-more-likely-to-be-wrongfully-convicted-of-murder-than-whites-risk-even-greater-if-victim-was-white

Mr Google just informed me that in 2020, there were 21, 570 murders in the US. I hate to think how many murders there have already been in this century. So 1,167 wrongful convictions over whatever time period is really the proverbial drop in the ocean (although of course that does not take away from the awfulness of the wrongfully convicted person's situation.) But this figure of 1,167 in no way points to a strong likelihood of BK being wrongfully accused, in fact quite the opposite IMO.

 

[Kemug]

His face looks fuller, almost puffy.

And his hair is now a much lighter colour.

 

[girlhasnoname]

His face looks fuller, almost puffy.

I believe the Defense is working on making BK look as less alike as his pre arrest photos and mug shots as possible. It's a strategy, but the thing is the State has plenty of photos and arrest photo so I think this is going to work against them in the long run.

MOO