4 Univ of Idaho Students Murdered, Bryan Kohberger Arrested, Moscow, Nov 2022 #93

[Chloegirl]

I was hesitant to bring this up since the alibi was submitted, others have connected the dots to Ted Bundy's first suspected victim Joyce Margaret LePage, found later in Wawawai Canyon.

Wawawai County Park Campground | Outdoor Project

Wawawai County Park Campground

A short drive from Pullman and along the banks of the Snake River above Granite Dam, Wawawai Country Park is a small oasis of verdant riparian habitat in an area that is arid and treeless. Songbirds flit from tree to tree. Water drawn from the Snake River irrigates the 49-acre county park with...

www.outdoorproject.com

Joyce LePage

Joyce Margaret LePage (December 4, 1949 - c. July 22, 1971) was a young woman who is suspected to have been murdered by Ted Bundy in Pullman or Colton, Washington, on July 22, 1971. If Bundy murdered her, she would be his first known murder victim. Joyce was born on December 4, 1949, in Benton...

victims-of-serial-killers.fandom.com

Fandom is a terrible word. Many aologies for it but part of the information is on that site while the rest is contained in newspaper articles, etc. below.

Joyce Margaret LePage (1949-1971) - Find a Grave...

Joyce LePage, 21, was last seen on July 22, 1971, on the campus of Washington State University, where she was an undergraduate. Nine months later, her skeletal remains were found wrapped in carpeting and military blankets, bound with rope, in a deep ravine south of Pullman, Washington. Multiple...

www.findagrave.com

This link really humanizes Joyce and connects the dots more clearly to Wawawai.

Coincidence? This is likely a little know case (sometimes Wawawai is not mentioned by name so it is an obscure fact that she was found there) in comparison to the other potential Bundy victims. Is there a reason the alibi is Wawawai? Is he taunting us, I wonder. JMOO

 

[schooling]

My thoughts about predicting the defense case are that it's really a case about the limitations of cellular infrastructure.

Most cell towers can only handle about 60 voice calls at the same time for 4G, which was predominant in 2022.

Capacity In The Cell Signal Oriented World

Remember, it isn’t always about cell tower reach, cell tower capacity is also a key factor.It seems that all the cellular carriers have really been pushing this “friends and family” focused method of data/plan sharing. I was recently at my local carrier store upgrading my phone when the...

surecall.com

IMO. Your numbers are off. Just thinking about the size of the student population who likely all have cell phones and the fact that they have D1 sports (a lot of people in a single area) tells me that the numbers are way off.

MOO

Note: Hoping this can stay up as I believe that it's on topic. As I'm starting to see a lot about the limitations of cell towers. I am not an expert. Everything I say below is cited by a link to research papers and authoriative news sources.

IMO. The article you're citing as a source is incentivized to sell people cell phone signal boosters. So I'm not surprised they failed to make the distinction between 4G/4G LTE and 4G LTE with VoLTE support. They also failed to mention the fact that cell towers have multiple sectors. And each cell sector can support X number of calls (more on that linked below). So their 60 number is an underestimation even at the time it was posted. And since carriers weren't using 4G for phone calls at all back then because of those limitations. The 60 number is totally disingenuous.

They probably realized this just a few years later so here's another article from them circa 2019 that cites the numbers to be as high as "1,000 simultaneous users". And those numbers are even low (more on that cited below)

AT&T Cell Signal Coverage Map

See how you expand the AT&T coverage map! Get all the information you need to get better AT&T service in your car, RV, home, or office.

surecall.com

Why the changes? IMO it was because "Voice Over LTE" (VoLTE) was almost fully rolled out by 2019. It supports 1000s of simultaneous users. Here's AT&T in 2014 announcing that it was starting to roll out VoLTE nationwide.

Telecompaper

Telecompaper - Telecom news and research

www.telecompaper.com

And by the time the iPhone 6 was released in 2015 (How To Enable HD Voice on your iPhone 6 | Digital Trends) voice over LTE (HD voice in the article) was already supported by enough networks that you could turn it on.

Up until that point phones were relying on 3G for phone calls and 4G for data for the reasons that your article cited. Anyone who remembers having a phone back then you couldn't simultaneously talk and browse the web at the same with (without Wifi) until VoLTE was rolled out.

Here's a How Stuff Works article about LTE/VoLTE and it's capabilities, including it being able to handle 300 to 400 of simultaneous calls.

How 4G Works

These days, more people are glued to their mobile devices -- and increasingly impatient about slow download speeds. 4G networks promise to deliver all the speedy data we could wish for, but do they?

electronics.howstuffworks.com

And since that How Stuff Works Article is also likely only accounting for a single sector pointed in a single direction MOO...here goes 2 more published reviewed research papers.

One from 2014 citing that some 4G towers were already handling over 2,000 users

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260030981_A_two-step_resource_allocation_procedure_for_LTE-based_cognitive_radio_network

And another 2018 research article that goes into the potential capacity of VoLTE being as high as 6,000 uses per tower. Which IMO we are likely already at since we are at the tail end of 4G LTE technology with 5G coming.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/iet-com.2018.5695

I have a lot more on the above but most of them are from forums and other places that don't seem like authoriative sources and I'd really like this info to stay up.

Here's a map of LTE coverage showing that AT&T current most advanced 4G LTE network is supported in the area.

Mobile LTE Coverage Map

This map shows the 4G LTE mobile coverage areas of the nation’s four largest mobile wireless carriers: AT&T Mobility, T-Mobile, UScellular, and Verizon. Specifically, it shows where customers can expect to receive 4G LTE broadband service at a minimum user download speed of five megabits per...

www.fcc.gov

Lastly, a typical cell tower has 3-6 sectors with multiple antennas each. So if we were using the number of "60" from your article it would actually be 60 in 3 different directions. Which means 180. With VoLTE that's how we get to those big numbers from the research I posted above.

Look at the FBI documentation here that refers to "Cell Towers AND sectors"

Document Detail

propertyofthepeople.org

And here is more on towers and sectors

4G LTE Cells, Sectors and Antenna Beamforming - 4G LTE Networks

Terminology of cells and sectors are changing as the industry deploys new antenna technology for systems like LTE, 4G, 5G and beyond

www.4g-lte.net

That last article clearly explains how towers are equipped with sectors and how they work together to provide 360 support to an area.

MOO

 

[fluffypaste]

Can someone explain to me why BK has to "officially" submit his alibi, instead of just presenting it during trial? Is that a rule?

 

[Balthazar]

Your entire post referred to and quoted from the alibi response filed 17 April 2024. You quoted nothing from the Objection to the Motion to Compel. So I was looking at the document you referred to and quoted from and responding to the comments you made about that document.

Legal documents on the same subject always build upon each other and must always be considered together in order to form a complete picture - or in this case, as complete of a picture as we have for now. I would never post about the contents of the second alibi document separate from the contents of the first alibi document. That makes no sense.

You said, "It clearly indicates BK had already left Pullman and the vehicle seen on camera in Pullman was NOT BK's. Yet we have him supposedly pinging 2 towers at 2:42am and 2:47am. IMO, this expert must have used a combination of BK's cellular data AND meta data to determine he was not in Pullman."

That's not what the document you referred to and quoted from in that post said. The alibi response filed the 17th says he was driving around in the early hours of the 13th and does not dispute that the pings and footage at 2:42am and 2:47am in Pullman were BK. It only says he went south and west, not east toward Moscow. It doesn't even try to dispute the alleged footage with no license plate. Only the one in front of Floyd's.

We know the defense expert has found that BK went to Wawawai Park and other places (unknown so far). We know that BK was Southwest of Pullman (because if you go South and West, you will wind up Southwest of wherever you have come from, 100% of the time.) Per AT, BK never went to Moscow that night and apparently the expert has proof of that.

I'm just looking plainly at what the defense says in their actual alibi response. They don't deny the pings and footage in Pullman are him.

OK. I explained in an earlier post on this thread why that might be IMO.

They don't deny the Indian Hills footage with the missing front plate is him.

The defense have already stated he was not in Moscow that night. Indian Hills Rd. is in Moscow, hence, logically the defense will say that was not BK's car on Indian Hills Rd.

They do deny the footage in front of Floyd's was him because that's traveling east toward Moscow and he was traveling south and west. To read more into that is making a defense even the defense isn't making.

Not really. I am giving my interpretation of these documents and all we know about the alibi so far.

All JMO.

 

[Ghostwheel]

If BK's cellphone's meta data shows he was Southwest of Pullman from before midnight on Nov. 12 to at least 5am on Nov. 13 and the meta data shows it was moving to various locations Southwest of Pullman which are miles apart, how can you explain how that happened unless BK was with his phone?

I could explain it by someone else having the phone part or all of the time. We can say a mobile device was somewhere, but unless there is something that proves x person was holding, carrying, using that mobile device, it's just a mobile device moving places.

Metadata is just data about data. If someone accesses a personal account, it might not necessarily be the owner of the account. Unless there is Metadata that says it was accessed with a fingerprint or facial recognition, it could be anyone. You can also clone a phone and have it wander all over if you want while you have the original.

Phone data is only part of something bigger. If you have phone Metadata that indicates you are at Disneyland, and there are images of your family (but not you) at Disneyland, and if you have a set of Mouse ears the following day, the indicators are that you were at Disneyland. But maybe you were home sick, one of your family borrowed your phone and took pictures and accessed your accounts to share them, and brought you home mouse ears.

 

[jepop]

IMO. Your numbers are off. Just thinking about the size of the student population who likely all have cell phones and the fact that they have D1 sports (a lot of people in a single area) tells me that the numbers are way off.

MOO

Note: Hoping this can stay up as I believe that it's on topic. As I'm starting to see a lot about the limitations of cell towers. I am not an expert. Everything I say below is cited by a link to research papers and authoriative news sources.

IMO. The article you're citing as a source is incentivized to sell people cell phone signal boosters. So I'm not surprised they failed to make the distinction between 4G/4G LTE and 4G LTE with VoLTE support. They also failed to mention the fact that cell towers have multiple sectors. And each cell sector can support X number of calls (more on that linked below). So their 60 number is an underestimation even at the time it was posted. And since carriers weren't using 4G for phone calls at all back then because of those limitations. The 60 number is totally disingenuous.

They probably realized this just a few years later so here's another article from them circa 2019 that cites the numbers to be as high as "1,000 simultaneous users". And those numbers are even low (more on that cited below)

AT&T Cell Signal Coverage Map

See how you expand the AT&T coverage map! Get all the information you need to get better AT&T service in your car, RV, home, or office.

surecall.com

Why the changes? IMO it was because "Voice Over LTE" (VoLTE) was almost fully rolled out by 2019. It supports 1000s of simultaneous users. Here's AT&T in 2014 announcing that it was starting to roll out VoLTE nationwide.

Telecompaper

Telecompaper - Telecom news and research

www.telecompaper.com

And by the time the iPhone 6 was released in 2015 (How To Enable HD Voice on your iPhone 6 | Digital Trends) voice over LTE (HD voice in the article) was already supported by enough networks that you could turn it on.

Up until that point phones were relying on 3G for phone calls and 4G for data for the reasons that your article cited. Anyone who remembers having a phone back then you couldn't simultaneously talk and browse the web at the same with (without Wifi) until VoLTE was rolled out.

Here's a How Stuff Works article about LTE/VoLTE and it's capabilities, including it being able to handle 300 to 400 of simultaneous calls.

How 4G Works

These days, more people are glued to their mobile devices -- and increasingly impatient about slow download speeds. 4G networks promise to deliver all the speedy data we could wish for, but do they?

electronics.howstuffworks.com

And since that How Stuff Works Article is also likely only accounting for a single sector pointed in a single direction MOO...here goes 2 more published reviewed research papers.

One from 2014 citing that some 4G towers were already handling over 2,000 users

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260030981_A_two-step_resource_allocation_procedure_for_LTE-based_cognitive_radio_network

And another 2018 research article that goes into the potential capacity of VoLTE being as high as 6,000 uses per tower. Which IMO we are likely already at since we are at the tail end of 4G LTE technology with 5G coming.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/iet-com.2018.5695

I have a lot more on the above but most of them are from forums and other places that don't seem like authoriative sources and I'd really like this info to stay up.

Here's a map of LTE coverage showing that AT&T current most advanced 4G LTE network is supported in the area.

Mobile LTE Coverage Map

This map shows the 4G LTE mobile coverage areas of the nation’s four largest mobile wireless carriers: AT&T Mobility, T-Mobile, UScellular, and Verizon. Specifically, it shows where customers can expect to receive 4G LTE broadband service at a minimum user download speed of five megabits per...

www.fcc.gov

Lastly, a typical cell tower has 3-6 sectors with multiple antennas each. So if we were using the number of "60" from your article it would actually be 60 in 3 different directions. Which means 180. With VoLTE that's how we get to those big numbers from the research I posted above.

Look at the FBI documentation here that refers to "Cell Towers AND sectors"

Document Detail

propertyofthepeople.org

And here is more on towers and sectors

4G LTE Cells, Sectors and Antenna Beamforming - 4G LTE Networks

Terminology of cells and sectors are changing as the industry deploys new antenna technology for systems like LTE, 4G, 5G and beyond

www.4g-lte.net

That last article clearly explains how towers are equipped with sectors and how they work together to provide 360 support to an area.

MOO

Thank you for this well considered and well researched post! I'm pretty behind the ball when it comes to understanding the knitty gritty of cell phone tech but some of this got through. I rely on and must trust experienced experts when it comes to this level of info so I especially appreciate you citing many sources.

 

[jepop]

Can someone explain to me why BK has to "officially" submit his alibi, instead of just presenting it during trial? Is that a rule?

Don't have a link at hand but on Idaho Courts web page you can look up alibi defense rules. I believe many states have them and they only apply if defense plans to present a defense of alibi at trial during which witnesses will testify in support. My understanding is no rule applies as to defendant taking the stand and presenting an alibi personally. But any witnesses to be called in support and a statement of where the defendant claims to have been at the time of crime must be revealed in good time or the witnesses may be excluded from testifying. This is so prosecutors have time to counter and are not ambushed at trial. jmo.

Whilst the ICRS lay out the statute (structure, time frames etc), I'm sure you'll get plenty of more detailed replies soon which will explain it better than I can. moo

 

[Balthazar]

IMO. Your numbers are off. Just thinking about the size of the student population who likely all have cell phones and the fact that they have D1 sports (a lot of people in a single area) tells me that the numbers are way off.

MOO

Note: Hoping this can stay up as I believe that it's on topic. As I'm starting to see a lot about the limitations of cell towers. I am not an expert. Everything I say below is cited by a link to research papers and authoriative news sources.

IMO. The article you're citing as a source is incentivized to sell people cell phone signal boosters. So I'm not surprised they failed to make the distinction between 4G/4G LTE and 4G LTE with VoLTE support. They also failed to mention the fact that cell towers have multiple sectors. And each cell sector can support X number of calls (more on that linked below). So their 60 number is an underestimation even at the time it was posted. And since carriers weren't using 4G for phone calls at all back then because of those limitations. The 60 number is totally disingenuous.

They probably realized this just a few years later so here's another article from them circa 2019 that cites the numbers to be as high as "1,000 simultaneous users". And those numbers are even low (more on that cited below)

AT&T Cell Signal Coverage Map

See how you expand the AT&T coverage map! Get all the information you need to get better AT&T service in your car, RV, home, or office.

surecall.com

Why the changes? IMO it was because "Voice Over LTE" (VoLTE) was almost fully rolled out by 2019. It supports 1000s of simultaneous users. Here's AT&T in 2014 announcing that it was starting to roll out VoLTE nationwide.

Telecompaper

Telecompaper - Telecom news and research

www.telecompaper.com

And by the time the iPhone 6 was released in 2015 (How To Enable HD Voice on your iPhone 6 | Digital Trends) voice over LTE (HD voice in the article) was already supported by enough networks that you could turn it on.

Up until that point phones were relying on 3G for phone calls and 4G for data for the reasons that your article cited. Anyone who remembers having a phone back then you couldn't simultaneously talk and browse the web at the same with (without Wifi) until VoLTE was rolled out.

Here's a How Stuff Works article about LTE/VoLTE and it's capabilities, including it being able to handle 300 to 400 of simultaneous calls.

How 4G Works

These days, more people are glued to their mobile devices -- and increasingly impatient about slow download speeds. 4G networks promise to deliver all the speedy data we could wish for, but do they?

electronics.howstuffworks.com

And since that How Stuff Works Article is also likely only accounting for a single sector pointed in a single direction MOO...here goes 2 more published reviewed research papers.

One from 2014 citing that some 4G towers were already handling over 2,000 users

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/260030981_A_two-step_resource_allocation_procedure_for_LTE-based_cognitive_radio_network

And another 2018 research article that goes into the potential capacity of VoLTE being as high as 6,000 uses per tower. Which IMO we are likely already at since we are at the tail end of 4G LTE technology with 5G coming.

https://ietresearch.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1049/iet-com.2018.5695

I have a lot more on the above but most of them are from forums and other places that don't seem like authoriative sources and I'd really like this info to stay up.

Here's a map of LTE coverage showing that AT&T current most advanced 4G LTE network is supported in the area.

Mobile LTE Coverage Map

This map shows the 4G LTE mobile coverage areas of the nation’s four largest mobile wireless carriers: AT&T Mobility, T-Mobile, UScellular, and Verizon. Specifically, it shows where customers can expect to receive 4G LTE broadband service at a minimum user download speed of five megabits per...

www.fcc.gov

Lastly, a typical cell tower has 3-6 sectors with multiple antennas each. So if we were using the number of "60" from your article it would actually be 60 in 3 different directions. Which means 180. With VoLTE that's how we get to those big numbers from the research I posted above.

Look at the FBI documentation here that refers to "Cell Towers AND sectors"

Document Detail

propertyofthepeople.org

And here is more on towers and sectors

4G LTE Cells, Sectors and Antenna Beamforming - 4G LTE Networks

Terminology of cells and sectors are changing as the industry deploys new antenna technology for systems like LTE, 4G, 5G and beyond

www.4g-lte.net

That last article clearly explains how towers are equipped with sectors and how they work together to provide 360 support to an area.

MOO

Thank you for your post and this information. Do you really think that Pullman's cell towers were up to date in 2022? I'm never sure how quickly things get upgraded and at that time 5G was only in year 4 of roll out, probably slowed due to the pandemic. Even today 5G is only available in 503 cities in the US (out of more than 19,000 cities/incorporated areas.) Would Pullman be one of those cities when they are not considered a medium sized city (medium sized cities have 100,000+ residents)? 60 users was for older technology, which is what I figured Pullman likely had. Not sure?

I got the UC Davis football fans number from UC Davis - 10,000 is the average number who travel to their away games. I'm not sure how many UofI alumni travel to games but I do know for certain the Kirby Dome only seats 16,000 - their website shows that. In addition there would people who come into town with football services/goods and so on - for the game, but not to attend the game. WSU, not sure how many attend Family Weekend, but from what I've read, it's a mess and they clearly don't have enough lodging to handle the traffic and video of that evening shows large crowds. It's not just parents that go to Family Weekend, siblings go as well so that is another issue.

All JMO.

I could explain it by someone else having the phone part or all of the time. We can say a mobile device was somewhere, but unless there is something that proves x person was holding, carrying, using that mobile device, it's just a mobile device moving places.

Metadata is just data about data. If someone accesses a personal account, it might not necessarily be the owner of the account. Unless there is Metadata that says it was accessed with a fingerprint or facial recognition, it could be anyone. You can also clone a phone and have it wander all over if you want while you have the original.

Phone data is only part of something bigger. If you have phone Metadata that indicates you are at Disneyland, and there are images of your family (but not you) at Disneyland, and if you have a set of Mouse ears the following day, the indicators are that you were at Disneyland. But maybe you were home sick, one of your family borrowed your phone and took pictures and accessed your accounts to share them, and brought you home mouse ears.

Meta Data for photos includes exact GPS coordinates. That's why this data may be the most important information in this case.

If there is meta data from photos taken that night, it will show exactly where the phone was. IMO, that's why AT mentioned BK taking photos of the night sky in the 2nd alibi response and also mentioned he had done this before. So, apparently this is was not a one time only thing.

I considered what if someone else had BK's phone. But:

If knowingly - I would think if BK tricked someone into driving around with his phone and taking photos and they later realized because he had a white Elantra that BK may have used the phone as an alibi while he murdered those university students they would go to police and turn him in. But if that is what happened, AT doesn't seem to know it and it should be in the discovery.

If unknowingly AND there turns out to be photos of the night sky or ice fog, how were they taken by someone who didn't know they had the phone? Further, if BK was photographing the night sky, it should be easy enough for an astronomy expert to tell if it is the right night sky in the photo by the GPS coordinates, date and timestamp.

All JMO.

 

[wendy44]

Legal documents on the same subject always build upon each other and must always be considered together in order to form a complete picture - or in this case, as complete of a picture as we have for now. I would never post about the contents of the second alibi document separate from the contents of the first alibi document. That makes no sense.

Agree they should be considered together, but also recognized for what they are. On the 24th of July the defense filed their Notice of Defendant's Response to State's Alibi Demand, which had been filed by the state in May.

They did not really provide an alibi so on the 27th of July the prosecution filed a Motion to Compel a Notice of Defense of Alibi. They were asking the court to compel the defense to comply with Idaho code that requires the defense to specify a place or places the defendant had been during the crimes and/or provide names and addresses of witnesses upon which the defense will rely.

The August 2023 is an objection to that motion to compel disclosure of those elements of the Idaho code. It's not a filing of an alibi defense. They're objecting that the state wants to compel them to file an alibi that complies with Idaho code.

The 17th of April 2024 filing finally lays out his alibi in compliance with Idaho code (partially anyway). It actually does make sense to focus on what the defense says in this filing because this is his response to a request for an alibi. The August filing is not. Of note, it appears that as they've received more discovery from the prosecution, his driving times have shifted from late the night of the 12th into the 13th, to the early morning hours of the 13th. None of filings dispute the cell pings/footage in Pullman at or near his apartment at about 2:45am.

We know the defense expert has found that BK went to Wawawai Park and other places (unknown so far). We know that BK was Southwest of Pullman (because if you go South and West, you will wind up Southwest of wherever you have come from, 100% of the time.) Per AT, BK never went to Moscow that night and apparently the expert has proof of that.

I don't think we know that. We know they allege that.
JMO

 

[jepop]

Imo Kohberger took no photos of the night sky or any others of the great outdoors during the early morning of the murders. If so I think AT would have certainly mentioned them in the recent Supplemental Response to Alibi Demand instead of skirting around with allusions such as 'some were even taken in November' (paraphrase).

Imo the allusion to photos is early prep for a future strategy of trying to normalise BK's secret movements (moo) on 13th as much as possible, moulding of jury pool expectations. It may work to some extent moo.

And if what I've read about meta data on here is anything to go by, moo BK wouldn't be sitting in jail right now: Meta data waiting to be discovered by Sy Ray embedded in photos of the fog encrusted night sky at that National Park showing time stamp of 4am or whatever? Just not gonna happen Imoo.

LE forensically examined his phone using experts who I believe know all about extracting meta data from photos (see warrants) amongst other things. Moo No alibi producing/exculpatory/exonerating photos were found. Frankly, I don't see the D's expert exposing what would amount to either massive incompetence on the part of State's forensic specialists or corruption or witholding of exculpatory phone meta data from the defense moo.

LE did an outstanding and exceedingly extensive investigation both before and after BK''s arrest imo. We only know a fraction of it via court docs and those numerous warrants. And not forgetting the volume of Discovery that is regularly referred to by the parties.

Also, given what's at stake I think Kohberger would have remembered he took exonerating photos and told that to his defense ages ago. moo

 

[acutename]

Even with the increased crowds in the area with Parents' Weekend, I find it very improbable that at 2:47 a.m. the cellular traffic was so high that it was having to get handed off to different towers than usual. Especially considering that the people theoretically causing this extra cell traffic would be parents of college aged students. We're not really a group known for being active on cellular service at 2:47 a.m., especially on a weekend that involved travel, IMOO, IMHO, etc. While I'm of that age group and am often up until 1:30, I'm not at 2:45.

would think that if any of the towers were overloaded and rerouting calls, data from the tower dumps would show this? or they do not show it happpening. (none of this will explain the dna on the knife sheath or BK's unusual garbage handling activities at his parents')

 

[Justice101]

would think that if any of the towers were overloaded and rerouting calls, data from the tower dumps would show this? or they do not show it happpening. (none of this will explain the dna on the knife sheath or BK's unusual garbage handling activities at his parents')

IMO, no towers are going to be overloaded with phone calls and/or data at 4 AM.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Meta Data for photos includes exact GPS coordinates. That's why this data may be the most important information in this case.

If there is meta data from photos taken that night, it will show exactly where the phone was. IMO, that's why AT mentioned BK taking photos of the night sky in the 2nd alibi response and also mentioned he had done this before. So, apparently this is was not a one time only thing.

I considered what if someone else had BK's phone. But:

If knowingly - I would think if BK tricked someone into driving around with his phone and taking photos and they later realized because he had a white Elantra that BK may have used the phone as an alibi while he murdered those university students they would go to police and turn him in. But if that is what happened, AT doesn't seem to know it and it should be in the discovery.

If unknowingly AND there turns out to be photos of the night sky or ice fog, how were they taken by someone who didn't know they had the phone? Further, if BK was photographing the night sky, it should be easy enough for an astronomy expert to tell if it is the right night sky in the photo by the GPS coordinates, date and timestamp.

All JMO.

I hear what you are saying, but metadata is not set in stone. EXIF data can be modified. If there were uploaded/downloaded data that could be proven to have never been touched, maybe. But I, personally, have several images with GPS coordinates that show I took them on 8/24/2189. It's just not that hard to circumvent stored data though people would like you to believe it is.

One person's experience and why phone data matters not at all to me unless part of a bigger picture or can be proven beyond any doubt I have due to my own experience to have not been altered. Everyone else's mileage may vary.

 

[Boxer]

Cell phones have transceivers that transmit and receive signals with the nearest cell tower.

Cell tranceivers actively seek the strongest signal from available towers. This process involves a series of handshaking protocols between the cell and the tower to establish a connection.

The cell continuously evaluates signal strength and switches to a tower with a stronger signal as the phone moves.

 

[Balthazar]

Agree they should be considered together, but also recognized for what they are. On the 24th of July the defense filed their Notice of Defendant's Response to State's Alibi Demand, which had been filed by the state in May.

They did not really provide an alibi so on the 27th of July the prosecution filed a Motion to Compel a Notice of Defense of Alibi. They were asking the court to compel the defense to comply with Idaho code that requires the defense to specify a place or places the defendant had been during the crimes and/or provide names and addresses of witnesses upon which the defense will rely.

The August 2023 is an objection to that motion to compel disclosure of those elements of the Idaho code. It's not a filing of an alibi defense. They're objecting that the state wants to compel them to file an alibi that complies with Idaho code.

The 17th of April 2024 filing finally lays out his alibi in compliance with Idaho code (partially anyway). It actually does make sense to focus on what the defense says in this filing because this is his response to a request for an alibi. The August filing is not. Of note, it appears that as they've received more discovery from the prosecution, his driving times have shifted from late the night of the 12th into the 13th, to the early morning hours of the 13th. None of filings dispute the cell pings/footage in Pullman at or near his apartment at about 2:45am.

I don't think we know that. We know they allege that.

JMO

I don't think BK's driving times have shifted at all, only that the defense is starting to provide information about the most critical part of the timeline and most important, who their witness will be. I don't think the time before midnight is that important to this case, although, based on what the defense has written in the first alibi answer, I believe BK was already out driving during that timeframe.

We know that AT can only state what is the truth in court or in court documents. We also know that AT is not a cellular expert. Therefore, the ONLY way this could be the truth is if the expert (Sy Young) found this information in the course of his research and investigation. Sy Young's process is scientific and has been verified to be between 92% to 96% accurate, but in rural situations with fewer cell towers, the accuracy can be even higher. So, based on that, I'm going to say we have significantly more reason than not to believe that this IS scientifically provable factual information. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing Sy Young's presentation and equally looking forward to seeing and hearing what the Prosecution presents. I wonder how similar the Prosecutors case will actually be to what is in the PCA?
United States v. Snipes, CRIMINAL 1:16-CR-212 | Casetext Search + Citator

I've been wondering about the discrepancy between what LE/FBI CAST Team found and what Cy Young found. I do still think it could be a cell tower capacity issue. It is not just parents who go to Family Weekend - many siblings attend as well and I would think many of these siblings would be up all night, so I'm certain that cellular infrastructure would be heavily taxed by all the extra people in town all day and all night long.

Moreover, the entire cellular industry does not accept CAST Report methodology as scientifically valid. What else, in your opinion, could explain this huge discrepancy in findings?

All JMO.

I hear what you are saying, but metadata is not set in stone. EXIF data can be modified. If there were uploaded/downloaded data that could be proven to have never been touched, maybe. But I, personally, have several images with GPS coordinates that show I took them on 8/24/2189. It's just not that hard to circumvent stored data though people would like you to believe it is.

One person's experience and why phone data matters not at all to me unless part of a bigger picture or can be proven beyond any doubt I have due to my own experience to have not been altered. Everyone else's mileage may vary.

I agree about the possibility of people circumventing date/time on stored data, however, if they. are pictures of the night sky, an astronomer can calculate exactly when and where a photo of the sky was taken - so, IF they exist, these photos' meta data would be 100% verifiable. There were some interesting astronomical events on that particular night such as the Leonids Meteor Shower so it makes sense that someone interested in astronomy WOULD go to photograph those events. Meteors fall burniing to earth, so despite the clouds in the sky and ice fog, the meteors can still be seen as fire balls in the sky often surrounded by smoke on cloudy nights. There is a beautiful photo of such an event in a cloudy sky in this article:

Extremely rare fireball meteor may have sparked a blaze that burned down a California home

A man has claimed that the fire that burned down his house in California was started by a fireball meteor, which was spotted by several witnesses in the area. But firefighters are still trying to determine what started the blaze.

www.livescience.com

Sometimes Meteors can cause a crater or scorch large areas of earth on impact - something else which is worth photographing, even if it is overcast with ice fog. 2022 was supposed to offer the best view of the Leonid Meteor shower seen in years. The photos showing the Leonids on cloudy nights are spectacular. IF such photos exist on BK's phone from that night, they can be verified by an astronomer and proven to have been taken on the date and at the time the meta data says.

It also occurred to me that BK is Catholic and the Catholic Church has long been involved in astronomy. The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest astronomical observatories in the world and there ARE groups within the Catholic Church who do study astronomy - for example The Society of Jesus (Jesuits). This may be how BK came to have an interest in astronomy.

Home - Vatican Observatory

The latest news, images, content and educational resources from the Vatican Observatory, the Holy See’s scientific institution for astronomical research since 1582.

www.vaticanobservatory.org

All JMO.

 

[schooling]

There are so many variables that go into determining a cell phone's location without the use of GPS. That's why the range is so wide and can be anywhere from a couple of hundred feet to a dozen miles.

So IMO anyonoe who believes that the defense has some sort of AHA! or exculpatory evidence you're going to be disappointed. More than likely (again, IMO) prosecutors are going to look at the data and say "we interpret it in this way" and the defense's expert is going to say "we interpret the exact same data differently because of X,Y,Z".

The defense expert will try to widen the circle while the prosecution will try to make it smaller. But it's still the same circle. If the defense is in possession of irrefutable scientifically based cell phone evdience theyd be shouting for his release from the rooftops.

I'm starting to get "the Defense has a megaton coming!" deja vu again. Last time it was exculpatory DNA evidence that never came.

 

[schooling]

It also occurred to me that BK is Catholic and the Catholic Church has long been involved in astronomy. The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest astronomical observatories in the world and there ARE groups within the Catholic Church who do study astronomy - for example The Society of Jesus (Jesuits). This may be how BK came to have an interest in astronomy.

Home - Vatican Observatory

The latest news, images, content and educational resources from the Vatican Observatory, the Holy See’s scientific institution for astronomical research since 1582.

www.vaticanobservatory.org

All JMO.

I'm a catholic from one of the most catholic places outside of the vatican, born and raised in Boston MA. The northeastern united states flavor of catholic. Probably similar to BK.

I've completed all my sacraments but the last two. Which would require me to become a priest (no thanks). I'm far more progressive than the church will ever be. So while I'm not the biggest person of faith as of late. I do still actively practice and participate.

In all of my life on this planet earth Ive never heard the catholic church associated with astronomy. I never heard about it in Sunday school nor my kids' current Sunday school. Never heard about it in a priest's sermon during the weekly homily. I've gone to church's steeped in tradition where the entire mass is delivered in Latin, and the more progressive churches where the priest is in Air Jordan's and commiserating with us about religious memes on social media.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist. Your link proves it does. I'm just wondering how prevalent that sort of thing is and how many kids/adults/people found astronomy through relgion....

As far as the metadata goes. IMO You're right in that if he faked it and he manually manipulated the data that they will be able to tell. And using the sky for verification is a good call. GPS is pretty much impossible to fake (regardless of all the "fake a location" apps on the app store) without leaving traces behind. And Cellular location data depends on way too many variables to be fool proof. So for the prosecution...without supporting evidence (i.e. video that aligns to the cellular) the cell phone evidence is a dud IMO. Because it can be interpreted in many ways.

I still don't agree with your claims on capacity though. As I've shown here towers can support upwards of thousands of calls per tower. Less than 10 years ago you would be in a 15k arena in a college town and any call attempts or web browsing would fail because of congestion. Today you have thousands of people simultaneously streaming and making phone calls with no issues.

MOO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Thank you for stating that, I say it all the time and people think it's just wishful thinking. The State purposely holds back incriminating information that leaves us all shocked when the case does go to trial. That Pike case was one for the record books.

I believe that will happen here (BK is toast IMO) and also in the Delphi case.

moo

In any murder trial where they have bodies (plural) and a known interior crime scene, there's going to be a crap-ton of evidence. Neither the prosecution nor the defense what that evidence out in the wild; no one wants a tainted jury (and thus an appeal). The prosecution is protecting the case; the defense wants to limit anything that might implicate the accused. Lots of the "evidence" must be processed (blood, other body fluids, items near or on the bodies, rugs, sheets, comforters or duvets, even pieces of a room or a house where there is blood or footprints). The Pike County case had days and days of crime technicians and detectives opening paper bags and unwrapping parcels. There were 8 bodies in that case and only 4 in this one but there will be a lot of forensic stuff, lab results, stuff from BK's apartment or parents' house or computer. It will be interesting to see what they have.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

In some states, they do. Read the PCA. His plates were expiring in November.

The plate may have expired in November but that wasn't about his birthday. In Pennsylvania, the plate expiration comes a year after the plate was registered. I have 2 cars, one due in February and the other in July.

A new registration shall expire 1 year after the last day of the month preceding either the date of issuance of a registration card by the Department or the date of issuance of a temporary registration card by either the Department or an authorized agent of the Department, whichever occurs first.

 

[Boxer]

There are so many variables that go into determining a cell phone's location without the use of GPS. That's why the range is so wide and can be anywhere from a couple of hundred feet to a dozen miles.

So IMO anyonoe who believes that the defense has some sort of AHA! or exculpatory evidence you're going to be disappointed. More than likely (again, IMO) prosecutors are going to look at the data and say "we interpret it in this way" and the defense's expert is going to say "we interpret the exact same data differently because of X,Y,Z".

The defense expert will try to widen the circle while the prosecution will try to make it smaller. But it's still the same circle. If the defense is in possession of irrefutable scientifically based cell phone evdience theyd be shouting for his release from the rooftops.

I'm starting to get "the Defense has a megaton coming!" deja vu again. Last time it was exculpatory DNA evidence that never came.

Exactly.
The defense in the Barry Morphew case said their interperpretation of data made no sense and would show would show the state's data ridiculously had Barry "walking through walls."
I plotted the data myself and his path and pace made total sense.
And of course people walk through walls all the time, through doors.