A month later... where is Lisa? What is your opinion?

[natsound]

Wasn't he just as drunk and the brother in law gave her the keys to his van? I vaguely remember that case.

I equate this case more to other missing children cases where a parent or both parents were wrongfully accused by LE and later proved that LE was totally wrong with their theory and a stranger abducted and/or murdered their child.

Not that I recall. She left the camping trip and no one knew she had vodka under the seat. Anyway, my point is that the family defended her and she was clearly undefendable, with her blood alcohol level. IMO, there's some psychology at work that we don't know about unless it happens to us.

 

[powayparent]

Thanks. I'm currently taking Effexor but don't drink because one time I thought having a drink with dinner would be okay but I ended up plastered off that one drink, really plastered. I can't imagine what DB's state would've been like if she was on Effexor and had 5-10 glasses of wine, I can't imagine how she would be functioning at that point.

Apparently it affects people differently. I've taken it in the past, had 2-3 drinks, noticed no difference. In another thread a nurse noted that it also had to do with dosage, how long one had been taking it and other variables. We have no information as to whether it did or did not affect DB.

 

[Pensfan]

Thanks. I'm currently taking Effexor but don't drink because one time I thought having a drink with dinner would be okay but I ended up plastered off that one drink, really plastered. I can't imagine what DB's state would've been like if she was on Effexor and had 5-10 glasses of wine, I can't imagine how she would be functioning at that point.

Yes, that is know side effect of Effexor combined with alcohol and Deborah was also prescribed a benzo (also sedating).

Although Effexor is in a class of medications called selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) which are similar to SSRIs (for depression), this med has different effects than a SSRI. It is used to treat generalized anxiety disorder, excessive worrying, and panic disorder in addition to depression because it can have a SEDATING effect.

Notice that on the drug insert (below), that Effexor has the same warning as opioids and benzos.

“Until you see how EFFEXOR XR affects you, be careful doing such activities as driving a car or operating machinery. Avoid drinking alcohol while taking EFFEXOR XR.”
http://www.effexor.com/

Pensfan
_______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[iamnotagolem]

I can't figure out which way I'm swaying today.

I think if it was an accident, I think one or all of the children did it, which is why they covered up the accident.

I think if Lisa is dead, either JI or both of them were involved.

If Lisa was kidnapped and the parents are not involved, I believe a family member was.

I'm still wondering if this started as a hoax and when the media hired (IMO, that is who hired them) the PI & attorney things just got out of hand. I don't think they expected such national attention.

I've always had a weird feeling about this entire case, when it was first on the news, I thought the baby wasn't theirs and they had kidnapped her, or just something was just incredibly off about the whole thing. Something didn't fit.

Right now, I just don't know what I think.

 

[Sparklin]

I have no clue.. Maybe I'm on the fence.. I must say I do look at mom the most.. A handful of things that went on dont add up to me but the fact the cadaver dog made a "hit" in the bedroom tells me something happened in the home.. Maybe the three kids together tried to care for the baby and killed he by accident? Maybe mom freaked out shook the baby? Maybe the baby was so sick she vomited while coughing and choked? Maybe someone took her while mom blacked out? I know alot of what I said could be accidents but while a parents drunk to blackout point I'd think they would be held responsible.. I also think while drunk the thought process is messed up and she/they could of done a cover-up... I hate this.. It's sad.. I do hope someone checks the baby's crib everyday, maybe someone will put her back... Uhg!

BBM= Happened her in Canada a few months ago. Child was kidnapped and then RETURNED...right under the nose of LE. Some strange things in our world!

 

[rosepetal1065]

I have no idea ! ! ! What really concerns me is - why is no one concerned that she is missing, parents have not made any plea's to the media in weeks, LE has stopped searching....WHY IS NO ONE CONCERNED THAT A 11 MONTH OLD IS MISSING!!!!![/QUOTE]

Where are the grandparents? Why don't they speak out..usually they have some sort of insight.

 

[AlmostGone]

That would be great!

 

[MissJames]

I think baby Lisa was killed by abuse or a deliberate action and was hidden/disposed of long before the 911 call was made. Statistically that's the most likely scenario and it also explains the parents lack of interest in pushing LE to find who "took" Lisa ,lawyering up and hiding out.
I would love to be wrong ,but some parents hurt their babies. I was a foster parent for a total of 17 years and I've seen it up close and personal.
JMO

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I think DB is responsible and JI is now involved in the cover-up because he's afraid that if the truth comes out he will lose custody of his son.

 

[Nore]

I chose DB.. I dont believe she meant to kill her and that is why it seems to hit DB. so hard. I favor an accident. As has been said before she was drinking and afraid of losing the boys so she tried to hide it. DB. could well have rolled over her on the bed maybe Lisa also slept with her often. Maybe that is why JI. checked their bedroom first. I just wish someone would come clean. So far we are all guessing at what happened. One of the witnesses of man carrying "baby" said it COULD have been a baby. I too am afraid this will go the way of Dunn,Horman, Cummings, and JBR...I hope I am wrong. :seeya:

 

[Well Done 99]

My THEORY is that, in a drunken stupor, DB intentionally caused the death or serious injury of Lisa and unwittingly, in the same stupor and without clear processes of thought, left her at the end of the bed (if that makes sense!).
At least one other was involved in a cover up and at least two others are aware of it.
I also have a theory about the 'relationship' between DB and SB but it's a bit far out there so let's leave it at that for now.
IMO MOO ImHO etc etc

 

[EllaMae]

I think BL is dead. I think we have not heard enough about how sick Lisa was and this disturbs me. Babies can die from a cold with a cough. Babies can also die from over the counter medication, especially if it contains a cough suppressant. Was baby Lisa getting medication for her cold? Did she see a doctor for it? Was she vaccinated from birth? Was it just a cold?

Healthy babies don't die from having a cold. A cold is not a serious illness.

It only becomes serious if it progresses into something else like pneumonia, or if the baby has other health issues that make a viral infection dangerous.

 

[EllaMae]

Respectfully cropped for space.

bbm= They can't be NOW trying to cover their tracks. And what tracks is what has me stumped. IF the disappearance of Lisa only took place in the 15 minutes that JI was home (with the help of drunken stupor/blackout Debi) and then called the police, then they aren't only horrid parents, they are magicians. And to think they did such a great job that the FBI have no suspects is mind boggling.

That's the sticking point for me also.

If DB harmed Baby Lisa in a drunken stupor, then how in the world was she able to hide the body and convince her husband to risk everything to protect her? He would know, since he had done nothing wrong,that he was in no danger of losing custody of his own son. He had already been to court on custody issues, so he is not naive about that subject. I can't see him covering up for one of the boys either, because those children are way too young to face any jail time for an accident in the home. People don't act that way over an accident anyway.
There seems to have been a lot of people out and about that night in the area, but no one saw DB or her car anywhere but at home. We know JI was at work. We know it's almost impossible for him to have time to hide a baby's body after he got home.

I think JI believes DB's story. He obviously is supporting her right now, so he must have good reason to think she is telling the truth about not knowing what happened to Lisa.

The very poor advice this couple got in the very beginning has made them look a lot worse in the media than they should have IMHO.

There is some kind of connection between Jersey, MW, DB, JI, PN and NSB(neighbor SB as opposed to husband SB, or HSB), and it could just be proximity and opportunity.Or it could be something else like drugs.


IMHO of course.

 

[Evan's Mom]

I'm still on the fence but leaning towards the parents being innocent a lot.

 

[MissJames]

I wish the question(s) was "why do you believe it had to be an accident ? What's so special about these parents that abuse or murder is not a consideration? What kind of parent wouldn't try to get their precious baby girl medical intervention instead of throwing her away? What kind of parent says , oops,looks like the baby's dead .Gosh,if we call 911 for EMT's I might lose my son ,too"

When you see your child lifeless,you don't process DEAD,you start breathing life into them,scream for help,start CPR,call 911. To believe that the parents are so unfeeling towards their baby girl ,that they could even process "DEAD" ,then start plotting a cover-up ,means,IMO, they are cold enough and uncaring enough to hurt her intentionally.
That's why I just don't get why it's easier to believe it was an accident than an intentional act.
I'm biased because I know what happens when your child dies suddenly and is "found dead". I also know what parents are capable of doing to their babies because I took them as a foster parent. I just don't get the covering up of an accident,not if they loved Lisa.

 

[SUNchips]

I'm still not even partially up the fence. I solidly believe that neither parent had anything to do with it. I put 'familiar/known' to family as it could be someone from the area. I would even believe stranger before parents.

I respect your opinion, though I am on the fence, but I think DB must know something about what happened. I am just wondering what you, or anyone with the same opinion that the family is innocent, thinks of what's been happening with the family and LE. I the parents are completely innocent then why wouldn't they be cooperating with LE and begging for their baby back?

 

[Karmaa]

I respect your opinion, though I am on the fence, but I think DB must know something about what happened. I am just wondering what you, or anyone with the same opinion that the family is innocent, thinks of what's been happening with the family and LE. I the parents are completely innocent then why wouldn't they be cooperating with LE and begging for their baby back?

Well, I am no more in the "innocent" camp than I am in the "guilty" camp (for the same reason - there isn't enough evidence). But what I DO get from this story is that a lot of people (with the help of the media) are deliberately obfuscating the facts that we do know.

The family HAS been cooperating with LE, according to both sides, at least until recently. Steve Young confirmed it and Cyndy Short confirmed it. The family has been answering any questions they get. The "not cooperating" initially came from LE because the parents stopped the interrogations where LE were accusing them of murder. Who WOULDN'T want to stop that? If they are innocent they would want to do everything to find the baby. Letting LE ask you about your involvement is understandable, but 11 hours of this? I think anyone would say "enough!" Go find my baby!

The parents (and a lot of other people) DID beg for Lisa's return. but the way public perception is now they may have been advised to stop that. Because every single move they have made, from the very beginning, has been criticized. If they go on TV, they aren't crying enough, or they are crying too much. If they hide their sons from the media, they are doing it because they are guilty, but if they let their sons be taped - they are money-grubbers who probably set this up as another "balloon-boy" deal (even though there is absolutely no evidence that they have been paid anything from anyone).

It's clear that the family has an adversarial relationship with local LE, but it sounds like they have tried to keep in contact anyway. But now that FBI is involved, I think that they are cooperating with the FBI and not so much with LE. I can't blame them, myself. If I had the choice to talk to the people who spent 11 hours screaming at me to confess, or the guys who are looking for my baby, there's no question who I would be dealing with. JMO

 

[Tuffy]

Sadly, I believe Lisa is deceased. I believe that her mother caused her death. I don't believe it was an accident either. I don't think that dad played a part in it. At this point, with no body, and no witnesses, I fear that this will end up a cold case. JMO


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[Pacific2011]

I also, sadly, believe that no one will ever see Baby Lisa again. . . .I'm not sure who all is involved because I think her death has been covered up by folks involved in various convoluted relationships, and some of them are quite unreliable, maybe because they can't remember much of daily life due to their drinking or other mood-changing habits.

For example, how much weight do you think a jury would give to MW's and JTanko's testimony, even if they agreed with each other on things like dates, times, etc., (which I very much doubt, to begin with).
MOO.

 

[legalmania]

Unfortunately I think both sides have learned from other missing person cases. Such as the Caylee, Haleigh cases, the victims families have learned to stay away from local media and avoid as much media as possible, and only deal with certain agencies, like the FBI. I also think that LE has learned, doing surveillance on the families and gathering as much information as possible instead of arresting someone right away, I hope it turns out to be beneficial, to both LE and baby Lisa. The sharing of information from one LE agency to another agency, is not only smart but working together gives them additional evidence and suspects. We all know that time is of the essence, and the more time that passes the less evidence will be found. Someone knows where this baby is and the baby needs to come home, please bring Lisa home soon.