Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #179

[susane7]

i see one of the denied experts was a confessions expert. they might have a mountain to climb there.

i saw some days ago you were sceptical of whether this will actually go to trial in May? we surely need to see a flurry of pre trial evidential hearings if it is going to i guess??

<modsnip - no link>

I am sceptical because the behavior of the defense. I think this pre-trial circus suits them and they keep complaining about the massive discovery, so I don't know. I think they will asking for a continuance but twist it in some way to blame the P. But I don't know how it works when they ask for a speedy trial. They can asked a continuance until when? Shouldn't there be an hearing to decide if the odinist guys can be discussed on the trial? The judge seems to really want to go to trial in May, so I really don't know.

 

[Emma Peel]

<modsnip - no link>

I am sceptical because the behavior of the defense. I think this pre-trial circus suits them and they keep complaining about the massive discovery, so I don't know. I think they will asking for a continuance but twist it in some way to blame the P. But I don't know how it works when they ask for a speedy trial. They can asked a continuance until when? Shouldn't there be an hearing to decide if the odinist guys can be discussed on the trial? The judge seems to really want to go to trial in May, so I really don't know.

Once speedy trial is invoked by the Defendant, the Court has no choice.
Judge Gull must accommodate and meet the 70 day trial rule.
Noting that Gull has already admitted testimony under State v RA related to Elvis Fields via Click during the recent Contempt hearing.
JMHO

 

[susane7]

Likely because the P has double or triple that amount available for expert witnesses. I’m glad they upped it. Parity. JMHO

I understand the fair trial but for me expert shopping and pay to experts until found one who is willing to say the answers that you like for some ammount of money isn't an fair trial. It's odd for me.

But my system is totally different so my approach it is with that in mind.

 

[susiQ]

I understand the fair trial but for me expert shopping and pay to experts until found one who is willing to say the answers that you like for some ammount of money isn't an fair trial. It's odd for me.

But my system is totally different so my approach it is with that in mind.

They are not “shopping.” They need to be able to launch a fair defence. If the P can have 7 experts, so should the D. JMO

 

[layer]

Let me put it this way: If RA isn't the killer I absolutely want to know it, no matter how much it costs.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I understand the fair trial but for me expert shopping and pay to experts until found one who is willing to say the answers that you like for some ammount of money isn't an fair trial. It's odd for me.

But my system is totally different so my approach it is with that in mind.

In my system, it's fair for the D to hire an expert who is not working for the state.

 

[susane7]

They are not “shopping.” They need to be able to launch a fair defence. If the P can have 7 experts, so should the D. JMO

I think it depends. Recently here on a trial with a famous singer accused for negligent murder (car accident), he didn't like what an expert said about the car speed and asked for another expert and the judge denied because it was unnecessary in her opinion.

In my opinion, the experts should be absolutely impartial and don't take sides (I know it is difficult and I'm aware that also in my system some aren't). Having 7 experts said one thing for some money and 7 other experts said the absolutely different thing for some money it is confusing for me.

 

[somequestions]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

If the prosecution has any of the following Richard Allen will probably spend the rest of his life in prison:
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
-Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)
-Confession appears to be true according to the jury's interpretation of the audio

This is a case the defense can argue if the prosecution has none of the above. Then it will come down to whether or not the jury thinks the person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. If the prosecution has none of the above, then it is anyone's guess as to whether or not Richard Allen is bridge guy.

 

[Boxer]

Lord.

Sketches? Tell me it isn't so. A case that begins and ends with sketches.

$64,000 question: will the sketches of RA from the courtroom match the sketch of him released back when?

Why - sketches are guesses.
For instance GSK/Visalia stalker had many sketches that were not at all likenesses. The police are going to try out and test what they can.

 

[Boxer]

Defense attorneys simply want to exploit the investigative process. MOO That is why discovery has to be limited to what will be used in court

 

[Salah11]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

If the prosecution has any of the following Richard Allen will probably spend the rest of his life in prison:
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
-Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)
-Confession appears to be true according to the jury's interpretation of the audio

This is a case the defense can argue if the prosecution has none of the above. Then it will come down to whether or not the jury thinks the person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. If the prosecution has none of the above, then it is anyone's guess as to whether or not Richard Allen is bridge guy.

Well considering he has placed himself on that bridge dressed as BG then I’m sure that will help any jury.

 

[WildHuncher]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

If the prosecution has any of the following Richard Allen will probably spend the rest of his life in prison:
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
-Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)
-Confession appears to be true according to the jury's interpretation of the audio

This is a case the defense can argue if the prosecution has none of the above. Then it will come down to whether or not the jury thinks the person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. If the prosecution has none of the above, then it is anyone's guess as to whether or not Richard Allen is bridge guy.

MOO, but he just has to be BG. That should be good for the original felony murder counts per most knowledgable people here.

 

[WildHuncher]

Well considering he has placed himself on that bridge dressed as BG then I’m sure that will help any jury.

Beat me by a minute!

 

[justtrish]

Let me put it this way: If RA isn't the killer I absolutely want to know it, no matter how much it costs.

If it isn't RA, then I want to know who did the girls walking the trail pass up near the Freedom Bridge and who did the lone female walker see on the bridge right before 2pm? We know she passed Abby and Libby as she walked back toward her car and we know she saw BG on the bridge when she turned around so I have no doubt the man that Abby and Libby crossed paths with and then filmed is the same man the lone walker saw and the man Abby and Libby filmed is BG.. so the lone walker saw BG right before the girls did. We know RA places himself there at that time in that outfit and he said he walked out on the bridge, where the lone woman saw him just before she saw Abby and Libby.

RA says he didn't see Abby and Libby, but he did see the girls that also saw him close to Freedom Bridge.. I think the man the girls saw is the same man the lone woman saw based on the known timeline (that timeline is proved by photo time stamps and the recordings of the lone woman's car arriving and leaving) We know when the woman passed BG and we know when Abby and Libby were on the bridge taking photos and that video.

So WHO was that man if it wasn't RA and if it wasn't RA, then why didn't RA see BG OR Abby and Libby?

I think RA wasn't counting on the lone woman seeing him on the bridge and he wasn't aware that she was going to remember passing Abby and Libby and he wasn't aware that her car arriving and leaving was going to be on video and give an EXACT time she was there.. no way to say maybe it was xyz time because those recordings of her car give EXACT times and it can be said BG was on that bridge at the exact moment she passed Abby and Libby as they headed toward the bridge and that man.

Oh and the woman saw no other people after seeing Abby and Libby before she arrived back at her car. So basically she placed BG on the bridge and Abby and Libby walking toward him with no other people following for at least several minutes because she didn't pass anyone else before she left. Her car is leaving at 2:!4 and we know Libby starts recording that video at 2:!3 so if she didn't pass another person then the only person with the girls is BG, who based on his own statements about being there and passing the girls near Freedom bridge, it was RA.

I just don't see any way that RA wasn't BG so what the state needs to show is that BG is the killer or better yet, they need to show that BG abducted them from the bridge and I'm certain that the video is enough to prove that.

 

[M. Kay]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

"If the prosecution has...
Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)."

Seven years into this I occasionally post again (realizing some are newer to the history) that when Abby's mother Anna gave a TV interview from a lawn chair in her backyard, she said that LE offered her a chance to view/hear the rest recorded on the phone. She declined, not wanting to hear the girls afraid. Perhaps others recall that Libby left the phone on in her pocket going thru creek
IE: BG was not aware that Libby recorded bridge and beyond, thru creek water "swishing".

 

[justtrish]

Well considering he has placed himself on that bridge dressed as BG then I’m sure that will help any jury.

All add to this.

He placed himself there AND a witness other than Abby and Libby saw him there AND saw Abby and Libby walking toward the bridge where he was. Just a few minutes later the photo was taken of Abby on the bridge and then the video was recorded at 2:13. We know for a fact that woman left in her car at 2:!4 and she passed Abby and Libby before that.

Also RA admits to seeing the other group of girls and we have a time for that because one of those girls took a photo before she encountered BG. We know exactly when that photo was taken so RA walking that trail after that photo was placing him at a specific time. We know she saw BG after that photo and RA himself admits to passing this group of girls and they all remember passing him as he was headed toward the Monan High Bridge.

So he can try to say he was there earlier and left before Abby and Libby arrived and he didn't see them or see anything or whatever his excuse will be, but witnesses who have specific time stamps on photos and videos that prove the time put him there when Abby and Libby were there.

 

[FrostedGlass]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

If the prosecution has any of the following Richard Allen will probably spend the rest of his life in prison:
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
-Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)
-Confession appears to be true according to the jury's interpretation of the audio

This is a case the defense can argue if the prosecution has none of the above. Then it will come down to whether or not the jury thinks the person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. If the prosecution has none of the above, then it is anyone's guess as to whether or not Richard Allen is bridge guy.

Regarding these points from your post;
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
I'm only aware of one search warrant for RA's home, property and car. I didn't see any of those items listed on it.
For a long time, I agreed with you about him being the only one who knows things the killer knows.
Now, I'm not sure I can count on that at all. Did any of the LE/guards at Westville have access to the discovery?

Gull's doc dump

State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen | Allen Superior Court

allensuperiorcourt.us

 

[layer]

I'm only aware of one search warrant for RA's home, property and car. I didn't see any of those items listed on it.

But they were free to seize anything incriminating they came across, beyond what was listed in the SW, right?

 

[Megnut]

But they were free to seize anything incriminating they came across, beyond what was listed in the SW, right?

Nope. If it's not on the list, they can't. They can guard it, if need be (under threat of destruction), until they get another search warrant though.

JMO

 

[Kudzu]

I have thought Richard Allen is innocent almost from the moment he was arrested, but that is only due to my interpretation of what bridge guy looks like from Liberty German's phone video. I still look at it. Did Richard Allen have his goatee on February 13th, 2017?

If the prosecution has any of the following Richard Allen will probably spend the rest of his life in prison:
-Clothing from either of the girls found during the search warrant of his home
-Forensic evidence from either of the girls on his clothing or his forensic evidence on either of them
-Details in the confession he gave that only the killer would know
-Closer image of his face from Liberty German's video(although I doubt LE has this and did not release it to the public)
-Confession appears to be true according to the jury's interpretation of the audio

This is a case the defense can argue if the prosecution has none of the above. Then it will come down to whether or not the jury thinks the person on Liberty German's phone video is Richard Allen. If the prosecution has none of the above, then it is anyone's guess as to whether or not Richard Allen is bridge guy.

I know we’re in the minority… but I agree with you. I just can’t see the match in his appearance to BG. I’ve got some nagging doubts that hopefully more digital and forensic evidence at trial will clear up. I want the truth, whatever that is, and justice for the girls - like we all do.