Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181
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Emma Peel
an unexpected turn of events
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It's difficult to pick one sentence, out of context, in the middle of an interview that is several hours long and analyze it ... and draw a correct conclusion.
But with regard to the passage you've bolded above ... it made me think of what KA was going through along with RA at this time. One reasonable explanation would be that LE's searches and other personal investigation into RA, such as interviews with work colleagues and friends and extended family - would extend to RA's wife, her close circle, her workplace. By this 2nd interview, RA's wife's life has also been upheaved, photos of the search in the news and on TV.
RA could be expressing his concerns for his wife's privacy in this regard. And, RA did raise this same issue on behalf of himself and his reputation.
As for denials, the excerpts include a series of denials from RA direct back and forth denials related to the gun. I'd expect there'd be similar RA denials with regard to each area of questioning, the bridge, his car, timeline, etc.. They're just not included in this memo.
We're given but a few snippets of a long interview ... we can't surmise what's not been said, or what has been said ... that's would be pure fiction and speculation. JMHO
layer
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It really does feel like we're extended family. Sometimes I wonder if this thing will ever be over. For the loved ones the pain may subside over time, but the terrible absence will never be over.
Abby's grandpa on life without his best friend
I am going off memory so this might not be exact, but close. I'm also going on what I think could have happened.. not saying it's fact, but what I can see happening based on what we do know about the timeline.
I think things moved fast once he had the gun out and telling them "down the hill".. they hurried down the hill because this man has a gun and they are going to comply. The location they were found was 1/2 mile or less from the bridge. (I'll look and edit this post once I'm done). If they walked even slowly, let's say 10 minutes to get from the end of the bridge to where they were found. If he has a gun and he's using it to scare them into doing what he says, then I think he says get undressed and they do. This would take no time at all if they are both undressing while he's holding a gun on them. Maybe he ties one up or has one girl tie the other up to ensure they don't run. If one is tied up, I don't think the other is running away leaving the other. So he has total control of both girls. In a very short period of time he gets them to the location and has them undressed.
I think it's possible the girls are talking to him or to each other. Maybe even saying, my dad will be here any time or people will be looking for us, etc. I think this causes him to hurry and maybe not do all he was going to do.. he's maybe panicking that he will be caught if the dad comes to look for them before he's done. Again, this is just me guessing because they were not killed right away because we know they at least were alive from the bridge to the location they were found.. so even if they were talking during that time as they walked to the location saying things like don't hurt us or we will do whatever you say.. my dad will be here soon.. etc. Ugh just thinking about this is awful.
I think he killed them and then tried to redress them.. it was harder than he realized and he ends up putting some of Libby's clothing on Abby because Libby's clothing is larger and easier to get on Abby and then he abandons the redressing idea and thinks he will put some sticks on them.. cover them up.. at this point he's likely panicking.. things didn't go as he planned, he didn't have enough time, he should get out of there.. so he just leaves.
I'm sure time stood still for the girls and likely even for him. I think planning or thinking about a crime like this will never compare to what it's actually like and maybe that freaked him out too.. he just fled. What felt like an eternity was only an hour or so.
The extraneous creative writing does provide context it’s just worthless.
RA was in a tiny room! The door was shut!!!
RA was in the room with a person bigger AND with a power differential, a State Trooper!
Holeman cursed! He barked!
But RA shows he is nasty and up for a fight.
They lie that RA said to “stop the interview”. Getting lost in their imaginative "context" they convolute a snippet from an earlier topic point for reuse with a new meaning.
The sentence with "its over" is adjacent to RA realizing that he wasn’t there to help with the investigation after all.
RA is saying his cooperating is over. That is the topic at that point not the interview. imo
“It’s over. I was perfectly fine. I was cooperating.
I was going to give you my phone and then, you know, when you
started reading all these documents – that’s at the – here’s my thing
is.
[…]
Rick Allen asked Holeman to stop the interview. Rick said “I’m
done” early into the interrogation at the 12:05 mark, but
Holeman continued his interrogation.
2024 4/15 suppress 2nd statement .pdf
Where’s the words “stop the interview”?
[..]
8. However, at the end of the interview (that turned into an aggressive
interrogation) Rick made it clear that he no longer wanted to talk to
law enforcement.
[...]
No direct quotes showing RA “made it clear he no longer wanted to talk to law enforcement”? Did RA really use the words law enforcement?
With no direct quotes to back up making it “clear” is it in the words of the Defense nowhere in the video?
This exchange is interesting:
Jerry Holeman: I don’t think you’re a bad person.
Rick: What kind of good person kills two
Ok Rick.
all imo
RA was in a tiny room! The door was shut!!!
RA was in the room with a person bigger AND with a power differential, a State Trooper!
Holeman cursed! He barked!
But RA shows he is nasty and up for a fight.
They lie that RA said to “stop the interview”. Getting lost in their imaginative "context" they convolute a snippet from an earlier topic point for reuse with a new meaning.
The sentence with "its over" is adjacent to RA realizing that he wasn’t there to help with the investigation after all.
RA is saying his cooperating is over. That is the topic at that point not the interview. imo
“It’s over. I was perfectly fine. I was cooperating.
I was going to give you my phone and then, you know, when you
started reading all these documents – that’s at the – here’s my thing
is.
[…]
Rick Allen asked Holeman to stop the interview. Rick said “I’m
done” early into the interrogation at the 12:05 mark, but
Holeman continued his interrogation.
2024 4/15 suppress 2nd statement .pdf
Where’s the words “stop the interview”?
[..]
8. However, at the end of the interview (that turned into an aggressive
interrogation) Rick made it clear that he no longer wanted to talk to
law enforcement.
[...]
No direct quotes showing RA “made it clear he no longer wanted to talk to law enforcement”? Did RA really use the words law enforcement?
With no direct quotes to back up making it “clear” is it in the words of the Defense nowhere in the video?
This exchange is interesting:
Jerry Holeman: I don’t think you’re a bad person.
Rick: What kind of good person kills two
Ok Rick.
all imo
TTF14
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This is why they provided the Indiana Supreme Court's ruling in State v. E.R.
To provide a case with very similar issues where the SCOIN ruled in favor of the defendant and said their Constitutional rights were violated.
Generally speaking, it's normal to see someone questioned in small room with an intimidating officer. Nothing new. But, there may have been parts of this that violated his rights and the law, so they provided a case that set a precedent in 2019.
The law is the law. And anyone who doesn't find it EXTREMELY sus that the first part of this interview was "lost" or never recorded has their head in the clouds (or has a way-too-healthy trust of all LE), IMO MOO IMO MOO.
It's the beginning of this interview lost, 70 days of interviews lost, RA's DD interview lost. It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to be a problem. Jmo.
I also just noticed that this State v. E.R. case had AB as an attorney...
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/in-supreme-court/2002727.html
TTF14
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Right, but it could be (a conspiracy). It's not JUST this one, but it kinda feels like "the final straw...." how much is it going to take before people start to wonder about this team!
TTF14
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Well that's interesting! Good find.
layer
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Here, two police officers interrogated E.R. in a secured area at a police station, without providing him Miranda warnings. When the State tried to use statements E.R. made during the interrogation as evidence against him in a criminal trial, he moved to suppress them as inadmissible. The trial court granted the motion.
The State appealed, arguing suppression was contrary to law because E.R.—although interrogated—was not in custody. Finding substantial, probative evidence that he was in custody, we affirm the trial court's decision.
Yes, I find accused murdering perverts sus more than I do LE.
I know plenty of hard working LE and avoid accused double murderers of minor girls.
So I’ll have to take your word that it is healthier or less head in the clouds to believe the accused and his content creators, the defense, is less sus than LE.
all imo
WildHuncher
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The kind of thing that a prosecution case will want to address at trial and which might never be answered in a guilty plea. Might never be answered in any case.
layer
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@vinayd
Thanks for digging that out! At times it's impossible to keep up.
This photograph is marked as Exhibit 43. It shows two girls lying on what appears to be the ground of a forest. The girls either are dead or are posed as if they were dead. The girls have tree limbs arranged over their bodies. The girl in the forefront of the photograph has her left arm and hand positioned very similarly to that of Libby’s left arm and hand (outstretched above her head). The Defense has prepared a side-by-side photograph of the mimicked photograph compared with the crime scene photograph of Libby which is marked as Exhibit 44 and filed as confidential.
Huh, that's pretty creepy. It's possible (perhas even likely) that the visual similarity is being overstated by the defense, but that would seem to be undermined by the inclusion of a side by side photo. I can think of a few of "innocent" reasons for that photo to exist on BH's phone, but we need more info.
Thanks for digging that out! At times it's impossible to keep up.
This photograph is marked as Exhibit 43. It shows two girls lying on what appears to be the ground of a forest. The girls either are dead or are posed as if they were dead. The girls have tree limbs arranged over their bodies. The girl in the forefront of the photograph has her left arm and hand positioned very similarly to that of Libby’s left arm and hand (outstretched above her head). The Defense has prepared a side-by-side photograph of the mimicked photograph compared with the crime scene photograph of Libby which is marked as Exhibit 44 and filed as confidential.
Huh, that's pretty creepy. It's possible (perhas even likely) that the visual similarity is being overstated by the defense, but that would seem to be undermined by the inclusion of a side by side photo. I can think of a few of "innocent" reasons for that photo to exist on BH's phone, but we need more info.
layer
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I'm sorry, that just strikes me as a very compressed timeline. I wonder if anyone has ever bothered just to wallk that out. From the end of Monon High Bridge to the CS, then through the available exit paths back to where everybody seems sure RA parked. The state would want to use a route that includes it's eyewitnesses presumably.
That walk alone seems like it's going to eat up a pretty good chunk of that 75 minutes. And RA doesn't look overly fit to me.
layer
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Great point!
Just pray that you are never falsely accused.
TTF14
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My fear is that it (the "timeline") will be stipulated as fact, asked for by the Prosecution.
IMO, MOO
vinayd
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This and the Idaho timelines really get in the way. No matter what happened bodies were left behind. So someone had the gumption to get it done. We will have to wait and see if it was RA alone. I don't know how he didn't manage to blame any one else in all his confessing.
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