Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[AugustWest]

I do understand that is their due diligence. Just why not the MAIN evidence that points to their client? Start there then work your way backward idk. Also if the judge has made it clear it won't be let in they should move on. Well I guess they are. To the 2nd confession. Hope to see some response from the state today. Yesterday's filing said more discovery was being sent over & I wonder what that will be.

But that is the point. Maybe the MAIN evidence they need is in the discovery that wasn't timely produced. The judge won't make a ruling on information to be "let in" unless the judge is presented with the information to make a ruling on it. The judge wouldn't say "I haven't seen the information, but it isn't relevant because the prosecution says so."

 

[susiQ]

I do believe the State should also have sanctions when it's all said and done. I think that is fair and following the law.
What I am trying to wrap my brain around is this part of that article:

“The Defense is concerned that there will be a continual drip, drip, drip of evidence (much which could be exculpatory in nature) unless a discovery deadline is set by the Court,”

Attorneys for Delphi murders defendant ask judge to stop 'drip, drip, drip' of evidence

So the discovery that is late is the entire investigation of 5.5 years. Let's say all evidence against RA is on 3 of the hard drives. Shouldn't they concentrate on that to build the defense? Instead of asking for every single tip and interview to possibly-maybe-hopefully find something exculpatory?

I really don’t understand how anyone cannot see how the “drip, drip, drip” of discovery is a violation of the law. How exactly does anyone expect the D to be able to prepare fully for trial without all the discovery?? The State continually dumps large amounts of discovery which will take mega hours to go through. Is this how the State plans to win the case. Keep the discovery hidden for as long as possible so the D doesn’t have time to find exculpatory evidence. The State has had this discovery for how long?? Worse yet, consider what LE have “lost” (more likely destroyed). Holeman bragging about all their sophisticated methods of investigation and then lose the most important interviews surrounding the early days to either “unsophisticated” equipment or pure LE negligence. I guess “sophisticated” means something else when JH uses the word.
JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hah, I'm no Ostrich FG, but thanks for the comparison. We were speaking of MW's case, do we know that there won't be cameras or no docs to read in this case since it is a different Judge, and Prosecutor?

moo

WE, as in any or all of us or none; or excluding you and me. Whatever it takes.
I don't like to post too much of MW's case here to risk confusion but here is how we know:

04/10/2024

Notice Issued Due to the Court already denying request for cameras in the courtroom on April 9, 2024, Court takes no action. KB

 

[TTF14]

I want to see this filing from yesterday:

04/16/2024

Witness and/or Exhibit List Filed Supplemental Witness List and Exhibit Notice 2.pdf Filed By: State of Indiana

I was looking for it in all of my "usual spots" and didn't see it. Maybe today.

 

[FrostedGlass]

So it's less than a month until the trial begins and there are still no pretrial dates, final pretrial dates, atty only dates. Just nothing...

Am I the only one concerned about this?

 

[TTF14]

I really don’t understand how anyone cannot see how the “drip, drip, drip” of discovery is a violation of the law. How exactly does anyone expect the D to be able to prepare fully for trial without all the discovery?? The State continually dumps large amounts of discovery which will take mega hours to go through. Is this how the State plans to win the case. Keep the discovery hidden for as long as possible so the D doesn’t have time to find exculpatory evidence. The State has had this discovery for how long?? Worse yet, consider what LE have “lost” (more likely destroyed). Holeman bragging about all their sophisticated methods of investigation and then lose the most important interviews surrounding the early days to either “unsophisticated” equipment or pure LE negligence. I guess “sophisticated” means something else when JH uses the word.
JMHO

This! If the State was so confident in their case, they wouldn't drip this way. Drip and Destroy.

IMO, MOO

 

[mrjitty]

So it's less than a month until the trial begins and there are still no pretrial dates, final pretrial dates, atty only dates. Just nothing...

Am I the only one concerned about this?

No - me as well. At least the flurry of evidential motions finally started, but one might have expected them weeks ago. Maybe all this admin is happening behind the scenes?

I don't see how they will get hearings done for these things, given there are bound to be more hearings needed

 

[FrostedGlass]

No - me as well. At least the flurry of evidential motions finally started, but one might have expected them weeks ago. Maybe all this admin is happening behind the scenes?

I don't see how they will get hearings done for these things, given there are bound to be more hearings needed

IMO
I hope it's not happening behind the scenes with no records being made.
The CCS is such a mess I haven't been able to keep record of how many motions are still out there waiting for a word from her.

 

[vinayd]

I really don’t understand how anyone cannot see how the “drip, drip, drip” of discovery is a violation of the law. How exactly does anyone expect the D to be able to prepare fully for trial without all the discovery?? The State continually dumps large amounts of discovery which will take mega hours to go through. Is this how the State plans to win the case. Keep the discovery hidden for as long as possible so the D doesn’t have time to find exculpatory evidence. The State has had this discovery for how long?? Worse yet, consider what LE have “lost” (more likely destroyed). Holeman bragging about all their sophisticated methods of investigation and then lose the most important interviews surrounding the early days to either “unsophisticated” equipment or pure LE negligence. I guess “sophisticated” means something else when JH uses the word.
JMHO

BBM
Well me either that's why I said I think the State will also have sanctions. With time on my hands I keep going back to read every single motion. Here is what I interpret and it's MOO... I have more to go. And of course the trial will tell the real story and my interpretations are limited.

The State filed a response to motion to compel discovery on 1/27 of this year. After the fiasco of the D team being removed and reinstated. They provide great and easy to digest details about charges filed 10/28/2022 and deadline for discovery 11/1/2023. The defense had produced no discovery as of 1/27/2024. I guess they can't provide their discovery without all the possible/maybe evidence being "hidden and deleted".

Then we go through an entire contempt hearing. Supreme court steps in. Everyone goes back as they were. More drips of discovery in Feb. I truly don't have an issue with this. It wasn't turned over expediently but I don't see withholding.

 

[Salah11]

I am still so skeptical about the trial actually happening next month. I don’t trust the defence as far as I can throw them and they will throw another spanner in the works.

Moo

 

[girlhasnoname]

BBM
Well me either that's why I said I think the State will also have sanctions. With time on my hands I keep going back to read every single motion. Here is what I interpret and it's MOO... I have more to go. And of course the trial will tell the real story and my interpretations are limited.

The State filed a response to motion to compel discovery on 1/27 of this year. After the fiasco of the D team being removed and reinstated. They provide great and easy to digest details about charges filed 10/28/2022 and deadline for discovery 11/1/2023. The defense had produced no discovery as of 1/27/2024. I guess they can't provide their discovery without all the possible/maybe evidence being "hidden and deleted".

Then we go through an entire contempt hearing. Supreme court steps in. Everyone goes back as they were. More drips of discovery in Feb. I truly don't have an issue with this. It wasn't turned over expediently but I don't see withholding.

Such logic, but don't you know this flies in the face of the D talking about withheld, and drip drip discovery? It doesn't support the grand conspiracy illusion, but you won't hear that. What we do hear is cherry picking from the Defense as to what they put in their Motions for the record.

I feel like Dorthy in Oz and someone needs to pull the curtain back on this insanity.

27 Days and Counting according to the D MST and Judge Gulls Trial Schedule. I bet there is some serious burning of the late night oil all the way around.

MOO

 

[WildHuncher]

One of the interesting insights from mapping out the timeline (e.g per GH example), is that if RA is correct that he left by 1.30pm, then there must be 7 girls in 2 groups. Plus 2 bridge guys - one leaving just as one arrives. This raises a bunch of questions.

- Have the extra 3 girls ever been identified?
- RA never sees a Bridge Guy,
- the 3 (4?) juveniles don't see 2 bridge guys, or the other girls
- who else was on the trails between before 1.30?

I am guessing there is no other witness who sees a bridge guy before 1.30 or it would have been 'exculpatory evidence' for the Franks memo (and important). And it could be very important who RA did not see.

I'll be very interested how the timeline comes together at trial. I've always felt that if the prosecution can prove the meeting of RA and the 3 juvenile witnesses at 1.30pm entering the trails then it is inexorable that RA is bridge guy, even before the confession evidence.

Bridge Guy Number The Other hid from everyone else, did the murders, planted the bullet, discarded his outer jacket, and kidnapped the Three Extra Girls.

It all ties together except for the goat.

 

[photographer4]

I think LE followed up on some of the answers RA gave in the Oct 13th statement and maybe found some new information in the process too. They invited RA back on the 26th, it was a 2 + hour interview we've only seen snippets from the Defense (of course) not the entire interview. RA gave as good as he got IMO.

It's interesting how his main concern was his wife ("you can f with me, but you'd better not f with her", maybe they were threatening a charge against her?) and he never said I'm innocent or I didn't kill Abby & Libby from what we've seen.

I think it ended up with Allen getting himself tripped up on his lies and they had their PC to arrest him at that point. I do believe they knew RA would be arrested.

JMO

That is what I found most interesting - he is trying to throw his bollocks around telling them to leave KA alone. It really gave me the impression that he *does* have some involvement / know things and that KA did not and he didn't want her to find out. MOOOO

 

[photographer4]

Has JG ruled on the contempt issue yet? If so, I've missed it due to being ages behind. If not - is there nothing that compels her to do so within X amount of time?? Or is she just going to wait until after the trial to avoid further circus?

 

[layer]

Bridge Guy Number The Other hid from everyone else, did the murders, planted the bullet, discarded his outer jacket, and kidnapped the Three Extra Girls. It all ties together except for the goat.

Leave baby goat alone
With all the apparel BG appeared to be wearing isn't it possible, even probable, that he switched at some point? Something like move a tan or light grey hoodie to the outside to cover up blood etc, or to confuse witnesses since he probably knew he was seen? That blue outer layer looks very thin to me, almost like a windbreaker. Something that would prevent blood from soaking through and being thin enough ride to underneath other garments if needed.
Just a dumb thought

 

[WildHuncher]

Leave baby goat alone
With all the apparel BG appeared to be wearing isn't it possible, even probable, that he switched at some point? Something like move a tan or light grey hoodie to the outside to cover up blood etc, or to confuse witnesses since he probably knew he was seen? That blue outer layer looks very thin to me, almost like a windbreaker. Something that would prevent blood from soaking through and being thin enough ride to underneath other garments if needed.
Just a dumb thought

I’m already sold he showed up with murder at least on his mind, so why not?

 

[TTF14]

Has JG ruled on the contempt issue yet? If so, I've missed it due to being ages behind. If not - is there nothing that compels her to do so within X amount of time?? Or is she just going to wait until after the trial to avoid further circus?

She hasn't ruled, and for some reason I think she had 30 days from April 1st? Whatever the timeframe, I know it comes up very close to the trial. She may rule to hold them in contempt, but there's no way she's kicking them off the trial. Whatever sanction she issues will be served/paid after the trial, IMO, MOO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

BBM
Well me either that's why I said I think the State will also have sanctions. With time on my hands I keep going back to read every single motion. Here is what I interpret and it's MOO... I have more to go. And of course the trial will tell the real story and my interpretations are limited.

The State filed a response to motion to compel discovery on 1/27 of this year. After the fiasco of the D team being removed and reinstated. They provide great and easy to digest details about charges filed 10/28/2022 and deadline for discovery 11/1/2023. The defense had produced no discovery as of 1/27/2024. I guess they can't provide their discovery without all the possible/maybe evidence being "hidden and deleted".

Then we go through an entire contempt hearing. Supreme court steps in. Everyone goes back as they were. More drips of discovery in Feb. I truly don't have an issue with this. It wasn't turned over expediently but I don't see withholding.

Since you have those links handy, could you please post them?

 

[Emma Peel]

I was looking for it in all of my "usual spots" and didn't see it. Maybe today.

I'll be happy to see it, but I'm always surprised when lists of witnesses are made public.

I could understand it if P requested, and JG agreed, that lists of witnesses and exhibits in this high-profile case should remain confidential until trial ... JMHO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I'll be happy to see it, but I'm always surprised when lists of witnesses are made public.

I could understand it if P requested, and JG agreed, that lists of witnesses and exhibits in this high-profile case should remain confidential until trial ... JMHO

I was just looking for an approved source of the P filing.