Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[DeDee]

I guess I always wanted to give DD the benefit of the doubt. I found it hard to believe that he was at the press conference a week or so later and that didn't even jog his memory.

This was just a bit vague: did DD find the tip narrative in ORION and give it to DL or was the tip narrative taken by DD?


After researching ORION, I ended up finding it hard to believe that the tip was sitting there all the time and ORION didn't spit it out to multiple sources. No matter how one looks at it, the whole thing is unbelievable. MOO

There is something odd about the CO story and how this particular tip was missed for 5 years. Is there data that we're missing or has been misconstrued? RA allegedly went to a CO on FEB 14 to inform of his presence at the trails. DD was at the presser on FEB 22.

I searched for news articles that included DD's work as a CO. A relative wanted to be a Ranger Rick and began college with hopes of becoming a CO. Sooner rather than later, they switched to Business by telling us it was easier because CO's work 365 days of the year, so they bought a dog, a truck and became a catfish farmer.

CO's receive more training than most Law Enforcement Officers. DD is not a dummy but I don't understand how tip this flew under his radar.

Recruits start their training with a core value school which is similar to a Marine Corps boot camp. Once the four-week training course is complete, recruits then go to the Indiana Law Enforcement Academy for 15-16 weeks of basic police training. Graduates of the academy then go on to essentials training, which is on-the-job training for another 12-16 weeks. Finally, recruits go through lengthy field training.
A day in the life of an Indiana Conservation officer

So, we have RA telling authorities he was on the trails. He kept the same vehicle he likely drove that fateful day in 2017.

He possessed a Sig Sauer. Ironically, an unspent bullet is found at the CS that possibly aligns with RA's firearm.

He had .40 ammo mags at home. All bullets for both mags are accounted for. pg 14

RA owned a blue jacket and a black jacket. If any DNA belonging to the girls was found on them, then the D would have this information. Lebrato would know.

RA had 4+ pairs of jeans LE took. If the girls' DNA was on them, the D would know this but they claim nothing ties their client to the girls or the CS.

RA had an interesting collection of knives, including a rusty one. If any of the girls' DNA was found in the tiny crevices or near the handles, then the D would know this.

LE took his boots, gloves, caps, sweatshirts and a square of carpet from his car. If their DNA was on any of these items, the D would possess this data, wouldn't they?

DocumentCloud

 

[FrostedGlass]

No when he was lucid and speaking to Holeman on 10/26/22. Ra stated that there was no way his (singular) bullet was used to murder those girls.
To me the information that the girls were not killed by a bullet was not known by the public.
This was known by LE and the murderer.

IMO it's obvious Holeman brought the bullet up in the early part of the interview. RA didn't just pull that out of thin air. There is much in that interview we don't have one clue about.

 

[vinayd]

IMO it's obvious Holeman brought the bullet up in the early part of the interview. RA didn't just pull that out of thin air. There is much in that interview we don't have one clue about.

I agree with this. There was a line of questioning about the bullet but we just have snippets so it sounds like RA just mentioned it. I am more in the camp of he was confident to say it wasn't his bullet once he was accused since he knew he didn't use a gun to murder.

While I do think the D is circumventing the gag order just a tad I do believe they are also following it by not including too much. They definitely aren't going to include the line of questioning about any knives or evidence matching.

 

[sunshineray]

No when he was lucid and speaking to Holeman on 10/26/22. Ra stated that there was no way his (singular) bullet was used to murder those girls.
To me the information that the girls were not killed by a bullet was not known by the public.
This was known by LE and the murderer.

In fairness, if it was put to him...a bullet from your gun was found at the scene...most people would think of a spent bullet because ballistics match spent bullets to a gun. This matching an ejected/cycled bullet, while not brand spanking new tech, is not as well known forensics, IMO

Edit to add for clarity: To be sure, all above can be true as well as RA knowing no gun was used to kill the girls so he could vehemetly state, no way did a bullet from my gun kill those girls.

 

[DeDee]

SBM for focus. Isn't this pretty common for defense attorneys when they have a client that has pleaded not guilty? I follow a lot of these cases and I can't think of one attorney (that I have seen) admit to their client being guilty. What kind of representation would that be? I'm just trying to understand this argument. IMO they are saying what every other D attorney says when they step in front of the media. I wouldn't expect anything different from R & B.

I get it. This is not my first rodeo. However, Bill Lebrato did not have to publicly and emphatically state he had seen the evidence, spoken with the accused and came away to tell us he feels Richard Allen did not commit this crime.

I don't know who murdered these precious children. I'm not yet there with RA. However, I demand a nearly flawless prosecution. Like Jerry Maguire: Show me the money!

 

[rebelchild]

I get it. This is not my first rodeo. However, Bill Lebrato did not have to publicly and emphatically state he had seen the evidence, spoken with the accused and came away to tell us he feels Richard Allen did not commit this crime.

I don't know who murdered these precious children. I'm not yet there with RA. However, I demand a nearly flawless prosecution. Like Jerry Maguire: Show me the money!

I guess my thinking on that would be that Lebrato had no way of knowing if he would possibly be reinstated at a later date .. if JG held a contempt hearing and happened to remove R & B from the case again. So maybe he figured he needs to stay in D attorney mode while speaking to the media .. just in case I am right there with you .. waiting for this trial and hoping to see the truth come out.

 

[FrostedGlass]

There is something odd about the CO story and how this particular tip was missed for 5 years. Is there data that we're missing or has been misconstrued? RA allegedly went to a CO on FEB 14 to inform of his presence at the trails. DD was at the presser on FEB 22.

I searched for news articles that included DD's work as a CO. A relative wanted to be a Ranger Rick and began college with hopes of becoming a CO. Sooner rather than later, they switched to Business by telling us it was easier because CO's work 365 days of the year, so they bought a dog, a truck and became a catfish farmer.

CO's receive more training than most Law Enforcement Officers. DD is not a dummy but I don't understand how tip this flew under his radar.


So, we have RA telling authorities he was on the trails. He kept the same vehicle he likely drove that fateful day in 2017.

He possessed a Sig Sauer. Ironically, an unspent bullet is found at the CS that possibly aligns with RA's firearm.

He had .40 ammo mags at home. All bullets for both mags are accounted for. pg 14

RA owned a blue jacket and a black jacket. If any DNA belonging to the girls was found on them, then the D would have this information. Lebrato would know.

RA had 4+ pairs of jeans LE took. If the girls' DNA was on them, the D would know this but they claim nothing ties their client to the girls or the CS.

RA had an interesting collection of knives, including a rusty one. If any of the girls' DNA was found in the tiny crevices or near the handles, then the D would know this.

LE took his boots, gloves, caps, sweatshirts and a square of carpet from his car. If their DNA was on any of these items, the D would possess this data, wouldn't they?

DocumentCloud

So far, none of the boxes for those items listed were checked for lab exam; except for the gun, ammo and carpet scrap. If they didn't send anything from all of those other items to the lab for examination, I'll assume there was nothing on them to be found. We've seen the lab analysis on the gun/bullets but nothing on the carpet scrap. I'm also assuming that came up as not useful to the P.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

 

[layer]

This matching an ejected/cycled bullet, while not brand spanking new tech, is not as well known forensics, IMO

There is nothing new tech about examining toolmarks on casings, it's been under fire for a long time. Keep in mind that an unspent round could have been cycled through any number of firearms before being examined. And none of the enormous explosive forces that propels the projectile forward have occurred. These forces create the distinctive markings used in analysis.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just another denial in the long list.

04/18/2024

Order Issued Court has received Request for Recording of Court Proceedings by News Media from Erika Facey, WISH-TV and denies same. Copy to counsel of record and Clerk of the Carroll Circuit Court. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Order Signed: 04/17/2024

 

[layer]

Just another denial in the long list.

At least she's consistent!
My impression, subject to change, is that she is a no-nonsense, move-it-along type of judge.

 

[vinayd]

At least she's consistent!
My impression, subject to change, is that she is a no-nonsense, move-it-along type of judge.

This is echoed by Lebrato here:
“Judge Gull knows no other way than to be fair,” he said. “She does not play favorites. The Supreme Court didn’t pick her name out of a hat. They chose her for a specific reason. In their ruling, they unanimously voted that Judge Gull stays on this case.” He said her “ethical and moral standards” were beyond reproach.

‘I’ve never seen so many twists and turns’: Former attorney for Delphi suspect Richard Allen discusses case

 

[sunshineray]

So far, none of the boxes for those items listed were checked for lab exam; except for the gun, ammo and carpet scrap. If they didn't send anything from all of those other items to the lab for examination, I'll assume there was nothing on them to be found. We've seen the lab analysis on the gun/bullets but nothing on the carpet scrap. I'm also assuming that came up as not useful to the P.

DocumentCloud

www.documentcloud.org

The public doesn't have access to all the discovery/lab tests/results, do we? The P has not disclosed everything they have because they're not trying to air the case in the media before trial...gag order.

 

[vinayd]

I wonder if that just means everything taken was logged in. Some was tested at that lab and maybe the rest sent to another lab for analysis?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The public doesn't have access to all the discovery/lab tests/results, do we? The P has not disclosed everything they have because they're not trying to air the case in the media before trial...gag order.

Yes.
Basically, I don’t believe anything the defense says at this point, and I know pretty much nothing about what evidence the prosecution has.
The trial can’t come soon enough.

 

[WildHuncher]

Not having analyzed this much, for me it seems like a botched kidnap attempt - to some nearby barn - and it seems likely ppl much younger than RA are involved.

Not saying he isn’t involved but something about this scene doesn’t seem right. If RA did this blatant mad deed on his own, he would have to be psychotic and he doesn’t seem to have been out of it right after the murders.

Also ”guys, down the hill” doesn’t sound commanding but rather relaxed and friendly - like down the hill is where my ponies are that you wanted to see. Like a ruse.

*
*** GRAPHIC WARNING ***

Parts of the audio that LE spared us have a female voice saying “gun” and a pistol slide being racked. So it was coercion by threat up front.

I think there is some subtle interplay of deception going on, though.

BG is bluffing about shooting them—I think. Pure guesswork here: Libby and possibly Abby have a false confidence from knowing that Libby’s phone is recording. That’s part of why they didn’t run right away. But the recording stopped (by accident?) after less than a minute. Perhaps one of the girls was dead or dying before the phone could be used as a counter threat. For instance, Libby takes out the phone to announce “We’re broadcasting!” He thinks the threat is to dial 911 and cuts her throat.

 

[vinayd]

*
*** GRAPHIC WARNING ***

Parts of the audio that LE spared us have a female voice saying “gun” and a pistol slide being racked. So it was coercion by threat up front.

I think there is some subtle interplay of deception going on, though.

BG is bluffing about shooting them—I think. Pure guesswork here: Libby and possibly Abby have a false confidence from knowing that Libby’s phone is recording. That’s part of why they didn’t run right away. But the recording stopped (by accident?) after less than a minute. Perhaps one of the girls was dead or dying before the phone could be used as a counter threat. For instance, Libby takes out the phone to announce “We’re broadcasting!” He thinks the threat is to dial 911 and cuts her throat.

Very plausible. We know the video is longer than what we have seen. I see it as he racked the gun, picked that bullet up and marched them down. Did horrible things to them. Racked it again and lost that bullet. Killed them when he heard shouts for them and put his trophy bullet in a keep sake box next to the bed. MOO.

 

[DeDee]

IMO it's obvious Holeman brought the bullet up in the early part of the interview. RA didn't just pull that out of thin air. There is much in that interview we don't have one clue about.

We do know that JH told RA that he was going down for this! That'd freak me out if I was innocent of any wrongdoing. Flight, fight or freeze? Biggest unsolved crime in Indiana history and the Lead Investigator yells "You're going down for this!" I would believe him.

Why was Sgt Holeman alone in the room with him, initially, without benefit of a recording? Aren't they supposed to have two investigators in the room for questioning or no?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

He would also have known that there was no way his (singular) bullet was used to murder those girls if he was completely innocent and unaware of how the girls were killed, right?

Not to me. His language is very precise and it wouldn’t even make sense for one bullet to kill 2 girls. To me the language indicates inside knowledge. IMO
It doesn’t indicate any innocence or confusion or despair or even disgust and horror.
Even the use of the word murder. JMO this is not the words of an innocent man.

 

[vinayd]

We do know that JH told RA that he was going down for this! That'd freak me out if I was innocent of any wrongdoing. Flight, fight or freeze? Biggest unsolved crime in Indiana history and the Lead Investigator yells "You're going down for this!" I would believe him.

Why was Sgt Holeman alone in the room with him, initially, without benefit of a recording? Aren't they supposed to have two investigators in the room for questioning or no?

No they can do it one at a time. They will sometime have classic "good cop"/ "bad cop" situation. The First 48 is good for examples as well as Red Tree Stories on youtube.

 

[layer]

The public doesn't have access to all the discovery/lab tests/results, do we? The P has not disclosed everything they have because they're not trying to air the case in the media before trial...gag order.

That's my hope, that the state has the real evidence - the good stuff, held back. There would be no incentive for the defense to draw attention to it in pre-trial motions, aside from trying to get whatever it is tossed, and the state would be prohibited from showing it by the gag order.