Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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Cyber sleuth said:
I feel like all defense is trying to do is introduce doubt about the LE and the prosecution so maybe a little will rub off onto the evidence the state will present at trial. IMO
Sound minds aren’t so easily fooled. IMO
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It's pretty much their job to raise doubt, no? It's the state's job to remove all those doubts.
 
Cyber sleuth said:
I feel like all defense is trying to do is introduce doubt about the LE and the prosecution so maybe a little will rub off onto the evidence the state will present at trial. IMO
Logical minds aren’t so easily fooled. IMO
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Why wouldn't a defense try to raise doubt about the evidence? That is literally their job.

It's pretty insulting to state that everyone who doesn't agree with you is not of "sound" or "logical" mind.
 
layer said:
It's pretty much their job to raise doubt, no? It's the state's job to remove all those doubts.
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Doubt about evidence.
I’d like to see defense address the evidence but I’m beginning to think they don’t have any ability to do so. IMO
They are instead trying a chaotic strategy of distraction to confuse the public away from facts. This won’t work for a judge IMO but they are trying it out on Joe Public to see if it might work on a jury.
Whether or not RA had his Miranda rights recorded doesn’t change his guilt in the crimes.
Not one iota. Not for me. AMO
 
Perhaps I can articulate what I'm hearing from several people.
It's aggravating that the defense gets to preview thier side of the case in public while submitting motions, using the typical language parsing and nuance that legal eagles, D & P, are so proficient at, cherry picking quotes etc...BUT the prosecution can't respond because of the gag order. In the meantime if you try to argue RA did it you are at an information disadvantage. Be patient, soon, we will be hearing the state, the whole state, and nothing but the state.

This should have been obvious to me but I'm not on any side here so it kind of slid past me. If I got that wrong, I'm happy to get set right. :)
 
AugustWest said:
Why wouldn't a defense try to raise doubt about the evidence? That is literally their job.

It's pretty insulting to state that everyone who doesn't agree with you is not of "sound" or "logical" mind.
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No insult intended towards you. I think you are sound and logical and trust you will have no problem using your brilliant discernment when appraising what unfurls at trial.
 
girlhasnoname said:
RA wasn't under custody/arrest at the time during the second interview when Holeman 'wanted to ask him a few more questions'.

EBM: Clarification
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I don't think you're understanding that his attorneys are saying he WAS in a custodial agreement because of the actions of Holeman (i.e. "sit tight"), and they provided case law to prove it. That's the point. I'm not saying if they are right or wrong, but this is the point they are trying to make.
 
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layer said:
Perhaps I can articulate what I'm hearing from several people.
It's aggravating that the defense gets to preview thier side of the case in public while submitting motions, using the typical language parsing and nuance that legal eagles, D & P, are so proficient at, cherry picking quotes etc...BUT the prosecution can't respond because of the gag order. In the meantime if you try to argue RA did it you are at an information disadvantage. Be patient, soon, we will be hearing the state, the whole state, and nothing but the state.

This should have been obvious to me but I'm not on any side here so it kind of slid past me. If I got that wrong, I'm happy to get set right. :)
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Well, the Prosecution had the PCA. It's not like they "haven't been able" to say anything. And, we have seen more of what they think in their responses to motions (at least one I can think of without going to check).
 
TTF14 said:
Most people mistake "pro Constitutional rights" for "pro Richard Allen." And I agree with Frosted Glass.....it would be easier to be on the "RA is guilty! He confessed!" train. Much easier! It doesn't require a deep dive.

I did not think he was guilty at first, though. I've changed my opinion to think there's a high likelihood he's involved in some way. But definitely not a lone wolf. And probably not even the actual murderer.

IMO, MOO
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Even if he wasn't the one who stabbed them, IF he walked them down the hill. to the stabber, then he is a murderer, according to the Felony Murder statutes.
 
AugustWest said:
It isn't a requirement to record the warning, but it begins to look suspicious when common practice is to record or somehow memorialize it.

The pdf you linked states clearly that a custodial interrogation "shall require audio and visual recordings" at IV(A).
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Considering that the Holeman interrogation happens after the search ... and the arrest happens the same day ... and probable cause relies upon the bullet casing evidence ... and there was an effort during the Holeman interrogation to get RA to agree that's his bullet as well as to agree that it's RA on the video ... one would think there would have been great care to get that Miranda done and signed. LE know that RA would be arrested that day; it seems LE even arranged for RA to show up, at ISP, on a bluff (car return).

RA arrest day may have been the biggest day in history for Delphi law enforcement. I'd expect Holeman will assert that LE here followed process and law; and it's very likely Holeman had a witness for this planned critical interrogation.

On the other hand, Holeman will need to explain why there is no paper/video proof of the Miranda for this day-of-arrest-of-the-Delphi-murderer interrogation.

JMHO
 
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TTF14 said:
I don't think you're understanding that his attorneys are saying he WAS in a custodial agreement because of the actions of Holeman (i.e. "sit tight"), and they provided case law to prove it. That's the point. I'm not saying if they are right or wrong, but this is the point they are trying to make.
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Right, of course that is what the Defense is trying to argue for their client. Totally get that, and none of these Motions that are being filed lately surprise me in the least.

It's like the Defense woke up finally and said 'well darn, looks like we might have to go to trial in 26 days WTHeck?' I expected these motions before now quite honestly.

I agree it is the D's job to defend their client in a competent and vigorous manner. That is what the 6th amendments affords us as citizens of these United States. Rightly so.

What I don't agree with, is what I have perceived (right or wrong) to be their lack of professionalism and misconduct during the entire case. I don't know R or B, it's not a personal thing.

It's their actions and the way they underhandedly conducted themselves many times throughout. The alliance with SM and Podcasters and the gimmie some money fund using the families of the victims hashtag overseen by DH pushed the 'blurred lines' even one more step too far. It reeks of unethical to me, but again that is just my opinion.

JMO
 
Willow Knight said:
I don't think so. My guess when he said he shot them in the back was his way of trying to throw his confessions off balance. Wanting LE to say he didn't do that. Wanting LE to say that's a false confession, we have the wrong guy. But RA didn't fool them. Or me.
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I'd think he knew his goose was cooked long before the first confessions - if he did it. Here's the odd part, to me.
If I was guilty and awaiting trial, I'd be trying to figure a way to minimize the damage, no DP for example, not all that false-confess-eat-poop craziness. Conversely, if I was innocent and in that position, I'd be prepared to try virtually anything to get off. Funny how different people are. :)
 
TTF14 said:
Well, the Prosecution had the PCA. It's not like they "haven't been able" to say anything. And, we have seen more of what they think in their responses to motions (at least one I can think of without going to check).
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The Prosecutor HAD to file a PCA in order for a Judge to sign it and enable them to arrest the man. They kept it short and simple. There is a gag and protective order so the Prosecutor hasn't been able to say anything. NMcL has been direct and to the point in his Motions not revealing extraneous info, which is the smartest thing he can do IMO. Why give the D any ideas as to their theory of the case?

Even at the arrest PC they kept it kept the information, again, short and simple unlike the 146 page Memo in support of Franks, or the other plethora of useless information they D has somehow tried to connect or insinuate is germane to the case.

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
The Prosecutor HAD to file a PCA in order for a Judge to sign it and enable them to arrest the man. They kept it short and simple. There is a gag and protective order so the Prosecutor hasn't been able to say anything. NMcL has been direct and to the point in his Motions not revealing extraneous info, which is the smartest thing he can do IMO. Why give the D any ideas as to their theory of the case?
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Well, and Nick is just talking past them right now, he can't directly respond. I get it, it's frustrating. Welcome to my world. I don't care about worldly justice and punishment, I'm just a seeker of truth. Guess how I feel about gag orders.
 
Cyber sleuth said:
Doubt about evidence.
I’d like to see defense address the evidence but I’m beginning to think they don’t have any ability to do so. IMO
They are instead trying a chaotic strategy of distraction to confuse the public away from facts. This won’t work for a judge IMO but they are trying it out on Joe Public to see if it might work on a jury.
Whether or not RA had his Miranda rights recorded doesn’t change his guilt in the crimes.
Not one iota. Not for me. AMO
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Exactly, because the Defense does not have a true defense or alibi for Rick's innocence. It's all been chaos, mass confusion and conspiracy theories that all of LE, ISP and FBI have been involved in covering up because there is no substantive theory they have to prove RA is NOT BG = Killer.

JMO
 
AugustWest said:
Why wouldn't a defense try to raise doubt about the evidence? That is literally their job.

It's pretty insulting to state that everyone who doesn't agree with you is not of "sound" or "logical" mind.
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Hah - or an Ostrich. This case has had some emotional times for sure, my skin is thicker for it. I don't think OP meant literally not sound or logical mind.

JMO
 
layer said:
It's pretty much their job to raise doubt, no? It's the state's job to remove all those doubts.
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That's why I'm trying to hang on (like a cat on a ledge with my fingertips losing a grip one a time) until trial starts.

Bring it on, shine the light on ALL the evidence not just what the D says or insulates and let a jury of RA's peers hear it and decide his guilt or innocence. What a wonderful day that will be.

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
Hah - or an Ostrich. This case has had some emotional times for sure, my skin is thicker for it. I don't think OP meant literally not sound or logical mind.

JMO
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I'm not insulted at all. I have extremely thick skin, as I am a defense attorney. People make lawyer jokes all the time, and I don't take it personally.

I'm just here trying to explain why things work the way they do and share what I have knowledge about to help others understand what is going on. Everyone in the world is smart at something in my opinion, and when they share their unique knowledge about something I know nothing about I appreciate it. I just made that comment to make sure no one felt stifled about sharing their own opinion.

It's not a big deal; let's move upward and onward!
 
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