Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[girlhasnoname]

Considering that the Holeman interrogation happens after the search ... and the arrest happens the same day ... and probable cause relies upon the bullet casing evidence ... and there was an effort during the Holeman interrogation to get RA to agree that's his bullet as well as to agree that it's RA on the video ... one would think there would have been great care to get that Miranda done and signed. LE know that RA would be arrested that day; it seems LE even arranged for RA to show up, at ISP, on a bluff (car return).

RA arrest day may have been the biggest day in history for Delphi law enforcement. I'd expect Holeman will assert that LE here followed process and law; and it's very likely Holeman had a witness for this planned critical interrogation.

On the other hand, Holeman will need to explain why there is no paper/video proof of the Miranda for this day-of-arrest-of-the-Delphi-murderer interrogation.

JMHO

The PCA doesn't only rely on the bullet casing, there is far more evidence even by Rick's own admissions. It is a piece of the PCA and ironically it matched the SS gun RA happened to own, and never loaned out to anyone or it had been stolen, and RA never been on RL's property or hunting there before so he couldn't explain how it would be there.

Another brick in the wall for me.

I guess we'll know what was and wasn't paper/video proof'd at trial. I'm not taking the D's word that's for sure.

JMO

 

[justtrish]

Perhaps I can articulate what I'm hearing from several people.
It's aggravating that the defense gets to preview thier side of the case in public while submitting motions, using the typical language parsing and nuance that legal eagles, D & P, are so proficient at, cherry picking quotes etc...BUT the prosecution can't respond because of the gag order. In the meantime if you try to argue RA did it you are at an information disadvantage. Be patient, soon, we will be hearing the state, the whole state, and nothing but the state.

This should have been obvious to me but I'm not on any side here so it kind of slid past me. If I got that wrong, I'm happy to get set right.

I can say for me, this about sums it up!

It's pretty much their job to raise doubt, no? It's the state's job to remove all those doubts.

Absolutely! I just wish the doubt was raised during the trial and not in all these public motions before the trial begins. I can understand that it's the D's job to raise doubt while also being upset at the way it's happening.

 

[AugustWest]

I can say for me, this about sums it up!



Absolutely! I just wish the doubt was raised during the trial and not in all these public motions before the trial begins. I can understand that it's the D's job to raise doubt while also being upset at the way it's happening.

This is how it always happens. Pretrial is the best time to eliminate evidence from being introduced at trial, so that we can have some form of judicial economy for the public and, more importantly, the jury. There is nothing worse, for both sides, than to have a jury moving back and forth from the courtroom while evidentiary motions are being debated.

 

[justtrish]

The PCA doesn't only rely on the bullet casing, there is far more evidence even by Rick's own admissions. It is a piece of the PCA and ironically it matched the SS gun RA happened to own, and never loaned out to anyone or it had been stolen, and RA never been on RL's property or hunting there before so he couldn't explain how it would be there.

Another brick in the wall for me.

I guess we'll know what was and wasn't paper/video proof'd at trial. I'm not taking the D's word that's for sure.

JMO

I think what is telling is he didn't know he left a bullet and THAT is the reason the police hold back evidence. Nobody knew there was a gun involved.. we speculated maybe there was a gun or knife he use to threaten them to get them to comply, but we didn't know for sure. The fact he admits to owning this gun and not lending it out to anyone and never being on RL's property BEFORE he knew they had a bullet from the gun at the crime scene, says to me he wasn't concerned admitting it because he didn't shot them so why worry if they know he owns a specific gun?? Well he had no idea he left a bullet behind.

Same reason I think he told the conservation officer he was there and the times.. he knew people saw him, but hey he came forward and was so helpful so nobody will suspect it's me. He told him what he was wearing because he didn't know there was a video with him in it until after he mentioned his exact outfit.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think what is telling is he didn't know he left a bullet and THAT is the reason the police hold back evidence. Nobody knew there was a gun involved.. we speculated maybe there was a gun or knife he use to threaten them to get them to comply, but we didn't know for sure. The fact he admits to owning this gun and not lending it out to anyone and never being on RL's property BEFORE he knew they had a bullet from the gun at the crime scene, says to me he wasn't concerned admitting it because he didn't shot them so why worry if they know he owns a specific gun?? Well he had no idea he left a bullet behind.

Same reason I think he told the conservation officer he was there and the times.. he knew people saw him, but hey he came forward and was so helpful so nobody will suspect it's me. He told him what he was wearing because he didn't know there was a video with him in it until after he mentioned his exact outfit.

Can you even imagine RA's shock and horror when that video came out? I still say that's why RA gained so much weight, shaved practically bald and grew out his goatee to over a foot long. Changing his appearance for his hiding in plain sight.

MOO

 

[justtrish]

This is how it always happens. Pretrial is the best time to eliminate evidence from being introduced at trial, so that we can have some form of judicial economy for the public and, more importantly, the jury. There is nothing worse, for both sides, than to have a jury moving back and forth from the courtroom while evidentiary motions are being debated.

This case seems to be a bit more extreme to me. That Frank's memo was basically analyzing the crime scene and it was VERY description, but it was their interpretation and theory of it, which some just take as fact. How is that not swaying public opinion to have all that info, plus leaked crime scene photos out before the trial? Wouldn't the defense want to protect that info also to ensure a fair trial?

Then the confessions issue and they only include things RA said that were not true and put it out to the public before the trial, it again feels like they are trying to sway public opinion ahead of the trial.

Why are these motions not kept private if they are going to include specific details about evidence and the crime scene and so on?

 

[AugustWest]

This case seems to be a bit more extreme to me. That Frank's memo was basically analyzing the crime scene and it was VERY description, but it was their interpretation and theory of it, which some just take as fact. How is that not swaying public opinion to have all that info, plus leaked crime scene photos out before the trial? Wouldn't the defense want to protect that info also to ensure a fair trial?

Then the confessions issue and they only include things RA said that were not true and put it out to the public before the trial, it again feels like they are trying to sway public opinion ahead of the trial.

Why are these motions not kept private if they are going to include specific details about evidence and the crime scene and so on?

The judge would be perfectly within her power to limit what the public sees of motions. Judge Gull hasn't done that here. This is how attorneys on both sides are required to present information to the court; through filings. It's procedure that is codified in every jurisdiction I know of in the U.S.

ETA: when I have a question about procedure in my area of law, I turn to the following statute(s) for the answer. I have a copy of this sitting on my desk at all times. Rule 4 of the Appendix deals with motions and how they are made.

OCIS Document Index

 

[layer]

I think what is telling is he didn't know he left a bullet and THAT is the reason the police hold back evidence.

Isn't that evidence of his innocence? There's no way you eject a round by accident. The killer knew there was a bullet. Unless the bullet is unrelated to the crime.

 

[nadia90]

Isn't that evidence of his innocence? There's no way you eject a round by accident. The killer knew there was a bullet. Unless the bullet is unrelated to the crime.

A bullet from his gun is evidence of innocence? How does that work?

 

[katydid23]

I wondered, why RA was accompanied by his wife, when he had this "meeting" on Oct 26th. But if LE planned to arrest him at that point, it makes sense. After all, someone had to drive the car home; therefore KA was invited probably. Whether RA became suspicious and trembled internally, we won't learn of, I think.

IF RA and KA believed he was picking his vehicle up, he needed KA to drive him there. She could have just dropped him off if she 'believed' he was really going to be able to get the vehicle.

I think she stayed because she was trying to protect him from further interrogation maybe?

 

[sunshineray]

I'm sorry for the jury who will most likely have to view and hear evidence we are spared from.
Omo.

I wonder if they'll be sequestered.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Same reason I think he told the conservation officer he was there and the times.. he knew people saw him, but hey he came forward and was so helpful so nobody will suspect it's me. He told him what he was wearing because he didn't know there was a video with him in it until after he mentioned his exact outfit.

RSBM for focus:
He didn't describe what he was wearing in the 2017 DD tip narrative.

When RA had the interview in 2022 where he told LE what he thought he was wearing, the video of BG had been out for a long time. He undoubtedly knew the video was out.

 

[sunshineray]

Whoever did this crime is insane, a sound mind could never conceive of such a thing. Let alone be tempted by such a thing, once conceived. Let alone go forward with it. If that makes me naive, I'm good.
Note this has nothing to do with insanity defense, JMO and I'm not a psychologist.

If history has teaches us nothing else it's that there will always be evil and perverted minds that are very "sound" and clever but dastardly

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Oldie, but IMO interesting.

Linking of Richard Allen’s gun to Delphi crime scene ‘not science’ says The Innocence Project

The Innocence Project is pressing on against tool mark evidence, claiming it’s “not settled science.”

fox59.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

IF RA and KA believed he was picking his vehicle up, he needed KA to drive him there. She could have just dropped him off if she 'believed' he was really going to be able to get the vehicle.

I think she stayed because she was trying to protect him from further interrogation maybe?

The optimist in me thinks KA wanted Rick to go there to tell the truth and subsequently exonerate himself. Except.. he couldn’t. The truth would never exonerate him. He knew it, but had to play the game for his wife. And once he boldly walked into the station on his own, JH knew the time had come to cuff him. RA was a flight risk IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Can you even imagine RA's shock and horror when that video came out? I still say that's why RA gained so much weight, shaved practically bald and grew out his goatee to over a foot long. Changing his appearance for his hiding in plain sight.

MOO

<modsnip>
MOO
He lived in Delphi for many years and Delphi has a population of a couple thousand people and he worked at the only drugstore in town and ate at McDonalds and parked his car within sight of police station and drank beer at the local bar and sat out in front of his house after work. He did all of this on a regular basis.

No way under the sun was he attempting to hide by changing his appearance.

 

[TTF14]

<modsnip>
MOO
He lived in Delphi for many years and Delphi has a population of a couple thousand people and he worked at the only drugstore in town and ate at McDonalds and parked his car within sight of police station and drank beer at the local bar and sat out in front of his house after work. He did all of this on a regular basis.

No way under the sun was he attempting to hide by changing his appearance.

Agree. And he looks nothing like "BG" so even if he's guilty, he wouldn't need to change his appearance. BG is everyman and "NOman"..... not obviously Richard Allen.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Agree. And he looks nothing like "BG" so even if he's guilty, he wouldn't need to change his appearance. BG is everyman and "NOman"..... not obviously Richard Allen.

I see what you mean about the BG photo. But once I saw RA was arrested I did think it looks like him. Perhaps my own confirmation bias. Prior to that, if I would have seen RA in a BG lineup of five Caucasian short men in blue jackets I don’t think I’d have known. I thought RL was BG. Daniel Nations came close too.

I do wonder about the latest document where JH tells RA that experts say it’s his voice. I think he said something like that - can’t find the full text right now. Will voice analysis be proposed at trial?

 

[layer]

I do wonder about the latest document where JH tells RA that experts say it’s his voice. I think he said something like that - can’t find the full text right now. Will voice analysis be proposed at trial?

My impression was that Holeman was lowering the boom going for a confession. I doubt they had even tried doing voice analysis at that point, honestly. For trial I'd advise against just throwing everything they have at RA and hoping something sticks. This isn't a civil trial with a preponderance of evidence standard, they should just go for the kill shot. Why distract from your most powerful evidence with sketchy stuff?
In other words, they probably will use it at trial...

 

[steeltowngirl]

My impression was that Holeman was lowering the boom going for a confession. I doubt they had even tried doing voice analysis at that point, honestly. For trial I'd advise against just throwing everything they have at RA and hoping something sticks. This isn't a civil trial with a preponderance of evidence standard, they should just go for the kill shot. Why distract from your most powerful evidence with sketchy stuff?
In other words, they probably will use it at trial...

interested in your opinion of the biggest piece of evidence, aka kill shot. For me, it must be evidence yet unheard. I believe he’s at a minimum guilty of felony murder, but have concerns about what will be admissible evidence. I have hope they have more damning evidence yet to be shown. Full disclosure: I’m not a fan of the bullet.

ETA: I also am reminding myself. Hope is not a strategy.