Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

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steeltowngirl said:
interested in your opinion of the biggest piece of evidence, aka kill shot. For me, it must be evidence yet unheard. I believe he’s at a minimum guilty of felony murder, but have concerns about what will be admissible evidence. I have hope they have more damning evidence yet to be shown. Full disclosure: I’m not a fan of the bullet.
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I've made it clear that any fingerprints or DNA would send me looking for a new mystery. I guess they could convince 12 people with what we know from the little we've been entrusted with so far in the PCA etc, if it's well presented and poorly rebutted. I'm really interested in seeing the witnesses. For better or worse, nothing beats a convincing citizen pointing at the man that eats poop. I guess I kind of feel like Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart on how to define prnography: I'll know it when I see it.
 
FrostedGlass said:
RSBM for focus:
He didn't describe what he was wearing in the 2017 DD tip narrative.

When RA had the interview in 2022 where he told LE what he thought he was wearing, the video of BG had been out for a long time. He undoubtedly knew the video was out.
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Agree. Good point. RA had no concern that his clothing was similar to the distributed-everywhere suspect image.
FrostedGlass said:
That just struck me kind of funny.
MOO
He lived in Delphi for many years and Delphi has a population of a couple thousand people and he worked at the only drugstore in town and ate at McDonalds and parked his car within sight of police station and drank beer at the local bar and sat out in front of his house after work. He did all of this on a regular basis.

No way under the sun was he attempting to hide by changing his appearance.
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Agree that RA was not trying to hide.
TTF14 said:
Agree. And he looks nothing like "BG" so even if he's guilty, he wouldn't need to change his appearance. BG is everyman and "NOman"..... not obviously Richard Allen.
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Agree at this time. With the caveat, IMO, that the amount of manipulation of BG image as an identification tool to encourage tips - we won't understand until trial.

However, the FBI were on hand to help publish that first likeness of BG early on. They estimated BG height at 5'11 on the first public notices. It seems reasonable to believe that BG height estimate was determined by experts on the response team. Later, height for the suspect was given a wider range later. Even so, a BG height of 5' 5" never fell in those ranges.

RA in real life is the height of the average 13 year old boy. He is very short-statured, with very short legs. Whereas, BG (as published to public) appears to have normal leg/torso ratios. If the BG image was enlarged proportionately, there's plenty of room for an expert to prove RA is not BG.

Never-the-less, it appears the P intends to argue that it is RA on that bridge, in the video, at the timestamp.

And I'd expect the D to counter that BG is exculpatory of RA ... by virtue of stature and/or body proportions.

IMO, being short is RA's most outstanding feature upon first sight. If none of the eyewitnesses to the individual they saw at the trails and/or on the bridge described the man they saw being noticeably short ... were these eyewitnesses describing RA? The D might employ this argument - that the eyewitnesses did not report seeing a small-statured man as well.

JHMO
 
steeltowngirl said:
I see what you mean about the BG photo. But once I saw RA was arrested I did think it looks like him. Perhaps my own confirmation bias.
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Honestly, I can't see anything but RA in the snippet video & stills anymore. I know it's not real because the photo is too damn blurry. Doesn't seem like it could be confirmation bias since I have no dog in the fight. If the P focuses the early testimony around the BG video still, how it was discovered etc, I would bet that the jurors start seeing RA in there too. It's something psychological, but I don't know the term for it. Maybe a form of pareidolia combined with my general LE bias.
 
layer said:
I've made it clear that any fingerprints or DNA would send me looking for a new mystery. I guess they could convince 12 people with what we know from the little we've been entrusted with so far in the PCA etc, if it's well presented and poorly rebutted. I'm really interested in seeing the witnesses. For better or worse, nothing beats a convincing citizen pointing at the man that eats poop. I guess I kind of feel like Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart on how to define prnography: I'll know it when I see it.
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For me, the kill shot would be connecting RA to anthony_shots or emilyanne_45. DNA would seal the deal. He’s toast.
 
layer said:
Perhaps I can articulate what I'm hearing from several people.
It's aggravating that the defense gets to preview thier side of the case in public while submitting motions, using the typical language parsing and nuance that legal eagles, D & P, are so proficient at, cherry picking quotes etc...BUT the prosecution can't respond because of the gag order. In the meantime if you try to argue RA did it you are at an information disadvantage. Be patient, soon, we will be hearing the state, the whole state, and nothing but the state.

This should have been obvious to me but I'm not on any side here so it kind of slid past me. If I got that wrong, I'm happy to get set right. :)
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FWIW I think we're expecting the P to respond to the 2 latest D motions; the P can respond.
(Not sure if you're thinking the P cannot respond?) JMHO
 
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Emma Peel said:
Agree. Good point. RA had no concern that his clothing was similar to the distributed-everywhere suspect image.

Agree that RA was not trying to hide.

Agree at this time. With the caveat, IMO, that the amount of manipulation of BG image as an identification tool to encourage tips - we won't understand until trial.

However, the FBI were on hand to help publish that first likeness of BG early on. They estimated BG height at 5'11 on the first public notices. It seems reasonable to believe that BG height estimate was determined by experts on the response team. Later, height for the suspect was given a wider range later. Even so, a BG height of 5' 5" never fell in those ranges.

RA in real life is the height of the average 13 year old boy. He is very short-statured, with very short legs. Whereas, BG (as published to public) appears to have normal leg/torso ratios. If the BG image was enlarged proportionately, there's plenty of room for an expert to prove RA is not BG.

Never-the-less, it appears the P intends to argue that it is RA on that bridge, in the video, at the timestamp.

And I'd expect the D to counter that BG is exculpatory of RA ... by virtue of stature and/or body proportions.

IMO, being short is RA's most outstanding feature upon first sight. If none of the eyewitnesses to the individual they saw at the trails and/or on the bridge described the man they saw being noticeably short ... were these eyewitnesses describing RA? The D might employ this argument - that the eyewitnesses did not report seeing a small-statured man as well.

JHMO
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I recall one witness did describe him as her height, which was short. Also, the BG photo was released quickly, and likely prior to full height analysis. But I get your point. It’s baffling that science for decades has been able to accurately predict precisely where and exactly when the sun will be eclipsed by the moon, but they can’t get a guy’s height and weight nailed down using modern technology.
 
vinayd said:
Great articles.
Every piece of Odinist theory will be excluded. I anticipate them requesting a continuance so they can work on the real case with their client.
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Yes. The smoke, drama, sticks, stones and, police incompetence and people who look like people or don't

Get back to the time line.

This crime has always reminded me of shoplifting, seeing an opportunty of lapsed attention and impulsively going for it.
 
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steeltowngirl said:
Incredibly, I sent that very meme out on Teams at work today!
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And the reason I sent it - a big business out of power declined our offer of a generator. Said they hoped it would just get fixed. Um no, it will take days. That’s why we offered the generator.

Sent the decline and the meme to my team. :rolleyes::)
 
Boxer said:
Yes. The smoke, drama, sticks, stones and, police incompetence and people who look like people or don't

Get back to the time line.

This crime has always reminded me of shoplifting, seeing an opportunty of lapsed attention and impulsively going for it.
Click to expand...

I'm just curious (and I'm not saying I believe this guy is the killer) how you reconcile Elvis Fields' confessions to his sisters, telling the officer he spit on Abby, saying he put antlers on her head.... I mean besides assuming the defense attorneys have lied about it in the Franks Memo. Assume for a minute they did not lie (and risk their careers) and this is information they found in the documents they cited in the footnotes. What do you make of it?
 
layer said:
I've made it clear that any fingerprints or DNA would send me looking for a new mystery. I guess they could convince 12 people with what we know from the little we've been entrusted with so far in the PCA etc, if it's well presented and poorly rebutted. I'm really interested in seeing the witnesses. For better or worse, nothing beats a convincing citizen pointing at the man that eats poop. I guess I kind of feel like Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart on how to define prnography: I'll know it when I see it.
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With utmost respect, could we just stop with referencing the doo doo episode? At this point, we don’t know what caused RA to engage in that unseemly behaviour. It’s quite possible he had a complete psychotic break due to the treatment he was receiving at the time. What does it bring to our conversation to repeatedly bring up this event? We are ALL aware of what happened at Westville. Could we just leave that messy part out? JMHO
 
steeltowngirl said:
I recall one witness did describe him as her height, which was short. Also, the BG photo was released quickly, and likely prior to full height analysis. But I get your point. It’s baffling that science for decades has been able to accurately predict precisely where and exactly when the sun will be eclipsed by the moon, but they can’t get a guy’s height and weight nailed down using modern technology.
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Thanks! Do you recall which witness and a reference for what was her height - that we know she was also 5' 5"? Was it the witness that agrees w/ RA as to RA being on the 1st platform?
 
FrostedGlass said:
That just struck me kind of funny.
MOO
He lived in Delphi for many years and Delphi has a population of a couple thousand people and he worked at the only drugstore in town and ate at McDonalds and parked his car within sight of police station and drank beer at the local bar and sat out in front of his house after work. He did all of this on a regular basis.

No way under the sun was he attempting to hide by changing his appearance.
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You’ve got to wonder how many pills he had to consume daily to even function.
 
steeltowngirl said:
I recall one witness did describe him as her height, which was short. Also, the BG photo was released quickly, and likely prior to full height analysis. But I get your point. It’s baffling that science for decades has been able to accurately predict precisely where and exactly when the sun will be eclipsed by the moon, but they can’t get a guy’s height and weight nailed down using modern technology.
Click to expand...
As mentioned, first they described BG as 5' 11". Then it became a range, accompanied by the 2 disparate composites. At that point, BG became a fully flexible avatar. I appreciate that it became a tip tool, was never an ID photo. But ... IMO, 5' 5" is out of range it. :)

Perhaps I'll understand it better when they put BG on the stand. So to speak.
 
Emma Peel said:
As mentioned, first they described BG as 5' 11". Then it became a range, accompanied by the 2 disparate composites. At that point, BG became a fully flexible avatar. I appreciate that it became a tip tool, was never an ID photo. But ... IMO, 5' 5" is out of range it. :)

Perhaps I'll understand it better when they put BG on the stand. So to speak.
Click to expand...

Didn't they take the height off the official poster at some point? Was it when they had their sights set on RA and knew he did not match "BG" at ALL?
 
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