Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[FrostedGlass]

Interesting! There he was, DD, on stage with all the others, YET, he did not recall his conversation with RA only days prior? Hmmmm…..Seriously, how many people went to DD to report being on the trails and on the bridge? Likely not many as most would tip in to the LE tip line, and still, his mind was blank. No recollection of RA. JMO
ed:sp

I've been giving DD the benefit of doubt, not knowing for sure if he was the one who actually did the interview. IMO The P clears that up in this document:

State's Objection to Defendant's Motion to Suppress June 13, 2023
Page 1
3. That in September 2022, while reviewing the evidence in the investigation into the murders of AW and LG, investigators discovered an interview that was done with Richard Allen in 2017 by Indiana Conservation Ofiicer Dan Dulin.

https://www.wishtv.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Objection-Filed-6-27-2023-13.34.25-248103915-FFC47C07-5DAF-414E-9879-66EEBA100263.pdf

 

[TL4S]

Dangit, that's been bugging me ever since I posted it. I think it could be very useful in cross of eyewitnesses etc.

I don't think you were too far off, IMO. I feel like the real value of the BG video (aside from capturing the moment of kidnapping) is a timestamp and a basic clothing description. If anything more could have been determined, there would have been a much more specific description for all of these years. So witnesses who saw someone that afternoon, wearing similar clothing, who was not particularly tall, could have seen BG. It's a wonderful reference point for these things, but I don't think there will be scale measurements and so on presented at trial. Jmo.

 

[Jade]

Uninvolved and still unidentified two years after the murders? If he was uninvolved why hadn't he come forward?
Then there's this from 4/22/2019 after the new YBG sketch came out:
Take a close look at the image below. Carter says they believe this IS the man responsible for the murders of Libby and Abby.
ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer

From your article they thought the two were working in tandem and still say the old BG that was videoed was on the bridge with the girls and said Down the Hill to the girls.

I don’t see where old BG is absolved as that is kidnapping they describe but instead that an additional person is added as a suspect. Old BG "secondary" as if they thought old BG sent them down the hill to YBG, imo.

[…]
State police officials have released a new short clip of the video recorded on Libby German's cell phone, a short clip of audio of a few more words spoken by the suspect and an additional sketch of the suspect.

[…]
An additional clip of audio from the same man has also been released. The new clip includes the word before the previously released version which only stated down the hill.
[…]

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer


Maybe the young guy figured it doesn't matter like RA letting his picture spread all over the country for years.

More realistically if it’s that YBG turned out to be a minor I don't expect we will see much more about him unless it’s relevant for the trial.

all imo









all imo

 

[TL4S]

From your article they thought the two were working in tandem and still say the old BG that was videoed was on the bridge with the girls and said Down the Hill to the girls.

I don’t see where old BG is absolved as that is kidnapping they describe but instead that an additional person is added as a suspect. Old BG "secondary" as if they thought old BG sent them down the hill to YBG, imo.

[…]
State police officials have released a new short clip of the video recorded on Libby German's cell phone, a short clip of audio of a few more words spoken by the suspect and an additional sketch of the suspect.

[…]
An additional clip of audio from the same man has also been released. The new clip includes the word before the previously released version which only stated down the hill.
[…]

"Please keep in mind that the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls" Carter said. "This is not two people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully."

Delphi Murders: ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Libby & Abby’s killer


Maybe the young guy figured it doesn't matter like RA letting his picture spread all over the country for years.

More realistically if it’s that YBG turned out to be a minor I don't expect we will see much more about him unless it’s relevant for the trial.

all imo









all imo

But if YBG was just a random minor on the trial, the witness who saw him, BB, puts him on the bridge just moments before seeing the girls walking to the bridge.

 

[layer]

Maybe the young guy figured it doesn't matter like RA letting his picture spread all over the country for years. More realistically if it’s that YBG turned out to be a minor I don't expect we will see much more about him unless it’s relevant for the trial.

So you're satisfied that there was no involvement by KK & clan? I kind of like the minor idea except the age range is way off, and... gosh I hate to say this... Ordinarily I would trust that LE had identified and interviewed every single innocent person that touched those trails that day within the first few weeks. Minors, adults, CVS employees...

 

[Jade]

But if YBG was just a random minor on the trial, the witness who saw him, BB, puts him on the bridge just moments before seeing the girls walking to the bridge.

Why can't a random minor have been on the bridge innocently like the girls?

He left the bridge. He wasn't on it with them we can see.

Could you please link?

 

[steeltowngirl]

I’ll try this again. They are telling us to focus on BG (supposed killer/down the hill guy) yet they are telling us that BB’s sketch is the killer. To me, BB’s sketch (first sketch, second to be released in 2019) looks nothing like BG. Maybe my brain isn’t working right today? I thought it was clear the first time, but…..I guess not .

Eta: I don’t think RA resembles the second sketch released, AT ALL.

I’m not a fan of the sketches; they are a mystery, and I lost my #@*! on this thread when they put the second one out in April 2019.

IF they get used at trial, it will be by the defense to demonstrate the muddied waters of the investigation. I don’t blame them on that one.

But there is a Hope! (There it is again…that recurring theme).
Carter has been saying for years that he can’t wait to tell us why.

That day is coming.

jmo

 

[Jade]

So you're satisfied that there was no involvement by KK & clan? I kind of like the minor idea except the age range is way off, and... gosh I hate to say this... Ordinarily I would trust that LE had identified and interviewed every single innocent person that touched those trails that day within the first few weeks. Minors, adults, CVS employees...

Maybe as inspiration or from a voyeur who was then emboldened.
Except for possibly trolling KK and all I think RA is a loner in this.
It’s just too weird of a scene; too much personal kink for a team.

I saw 18 to 40 in that article linked.
A minor could be 16 or 17 so not way off at all.

A wide range like that isn't a binding statement by nature, imo.

IF the YBG description and sketch is based on a witness input that witness has made conjectures in the ages as part of that description.
LE has to accept that as presented they can't say well no you've worked with the the sketch artist making a picture of a YBG that doesn't match your description of the age range.

They get what they get with witness descriptions, no?


all imo

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I really think FBI experts have this measuring thing down. If we can find the first FBI notices/ posters ... with the height ranges ... that's what the FBI experts determined, IMO.
The FBI threw resources and experts at Delphi; they were not messing around early weeks and months. JMHO

DBM.... Someone had previously posted original pic of first FBI poster/

 

[TL4S]

Why can't a random minor have been on the bridge innocently like the girls?

He left the bridge. He wasn't on it with them we can see.

Could you please link?

If this is the case, then why couldn't RA have been on the bridge innocently like the girls, then left? In the PCA, BB saw a man on the bridge, she turned around to head back to the parking area and she then passed the girls while they were heading towards the bridge. By this timeline, the argument has always been that BB didn't see anyone else come or go, so the man she saw on the bridge, only a couple minutes before seeing the girls, must be BG. In the FM, it was said that in BB's statement, she described the man on the bridge as a young man with poofy hair and is the source of the YBG sketch. I'm not sure how we can explain a young man and RA both at the bridge, wearing the same clothing, at almost the exact same time, while giving the young man a free pass to innocence, while RA a direct line to conviction. JMO.

 

[Emma Peel]

I won't be surprised at all if the "BG" pics/video aren't included at all in evidence presented by the State.

This is the golden victim-sourced timestamp. Not sure how the State avoids this evidence if its important to the State's case to put RA on the bridge at the timestamp, coordinating w/ eyewitnesses, asserting clothing match, etc? JMHO

 

[Emma Peel]

DBM.... Someone had previously posted original pic of first FBI poster/

surely, but if recently on this thread? I'm sorry if I missed it. Haven't (lately) seen a February/March 2017 dated FBI poster. Feel welcome to smack me in the face with one.

 

[Jade]

If this is the case, then why couldn't RA have been on the bridge innocently like the girls, then left? In the PCA, BB saw a man on the bridge, she turned around to head back to the parking area and she then passed the girls while they were heading towards the bridge. By this timeline, the argument has always been that BB didn't see anyone else come or go, so the man she saw on the bridge, only a couple minutes before seeing the girls, must be BG. In the FM, it was said that in BB's statement, she described the man on the bridge as a young man with poofy hair and is the source of the YBG sketch. I'm not sure how we can explain a young man and RA both at the bridge, wearing the same clothing, at almost the exact same time, while giving the young man a free pass to innocence, while RA a direct line to conviction. JMO.

Because of the evidence the direct witness, Liberty, provided of the man who frightened her into videoing his approach, threat and command to go down the hill.

The link provided clearly states that is that man talking to the girls.

Why would we think we could explain anything? It's not like we are jurors a trial with all the evidence and witnesses.

By paraphrasing insteading providing quotes its just a jumble but rest assured that in court much will come out we don't know. Or as in many times endless talk on a subject on threads is never brought up in trial.

Again AugustWest's article linked will explain why non direct witness statements have to be backed up with evidence.

A video from a direct witness recording the start of the crime is going to carry more weight than a passing witness recollection, imo.


All imo

 

[TL4S]

04/19/2024

Witness and/or Exhibit List Filed Defendant's Notice of Submission of Supplemental Witness List to the State Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 04/19/2024

 

[steeltowngirl]

surely, but if recently on this thread? I'm sorry if I missed it. Haven't (lately) seen a February/March 2017 dated FBI poster. Feel welcome to smack me in the face with one.

This is the original poster, developed with information provided by LE, including the FBI. Are you asking for what was originally posted on the FBI.gov website with the OBG sketch?

Staying engaged – ‘We want this guy caught!’ - Carroll County Comet

The families of Abby Williams and Libby German have decided not to sit back and do nothing while local police agencies, the Indiana State Police (ISP) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigate the deaths of the two girls, which occurred Feb. 13, 2017. The families say they can...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[layer]

This is the original poster, developed with information provided by LE, including the FBI. Are you asking for what was originally posted on the FBI.gov website with the OBG sketch?

Good snag, the OBG sketch wasn't drawn until later, like July, maybe? We were told that the witness didn't come forward right away.

 

[Emma Peel]

This is the original poster, developed with information provided by LE, including the FBI. Are you asking for what was originally posted on the FBI.gov website with the OBG sketch?

Staying engaged – ‘We want this guy caught!’ - Carroll County Comet

The families of Abby Williams and Libby German have decided not to sit back and do nothing while local police agencies, the Indiana State Police (ISP) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) investigate the deaths of the two girls, which occurred Feb. 13, 2017. The families say they can...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

YAY!! A 2017 media-dated copy of poster, old BG. Thank you STG.

Good question b/c I am wondering ... if there's an original poster - which would have w/ BG ONLY (and no composites)? Don't know if there was one. Haven't been successful googling one up.

 

[layer]

I lost my #@*! on this thread when they put the second one out in April 2019.

LOL, I remember that! I think I had a nervous breakdown that day.

 

[DeDee]

04/19/2024

Witness and/or Exhibit List Filed Defendant's Notice of Submission of Supplemental Witness List to the State Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 04/19/2024

Moving right along...

Seems to me that whomever was being deposed this week by the D team have now become witnesses for the D.

 

[renah]

This is slightly (though not totally) off-topic, and I apologize in advance if it causes anyone to lose their current train of thought. I have tried for days to answer my question on my own, no luck:

Threads and threads ago someone linked a story and YouTube video about a previous case occuring in this same county and, I believe, involving members of the currently involved DA & LE offices. (Therein lies my interest).

A young man, an army vet recently returned, had invited his friends over for some kind of casual get-together at his farm. It involved beers and fireworks in a barn or garage that also held paintball equipment. Somehow LE got involved. If I'm remembering correctly, an officer mistook the noise of exploding fireworks for actual gunfire and for several hours watched through binoculars from afar before eventually arresting this man...for (real) guns, and a whole lot more.

I don't want to give the whole story away because I don't want to discourage anyone from viewing it themselves--- which, if it does involve some of our current players SHOULD ABSOLUTELY BE WATCHED--- but hopefully what I've just described will be enough to jog someone's memory of this very memorable and not so long ago case.

It's pertinent IMO because it provides local
context, and insight into why I for one simply cannot accept the mounting pile of prosecuting errors as innocent "mistakes".