Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181

[mrjitty]

There hasn't been any explanation or alibi. The defense did say "he was at home". Assuming they can say this based on phone data. But they didn't understand the data so hopefully they got their expert funds.

I suspect him being at home is just based on him saying that in his police interview

 

[girlhasnoname]

Admittedly I still don't have a grasp of the landmarks below the MHB so I might botch this from the outset --

Was the river crossing required, in order to get from DTH to the site where they were found?

Is there consensus on the thread as to whether crossing the river seemed premeditated or whether spontaneous, if for instance the girls tried to escape?

Consider: if RA used a tripod, perhaps he pre-positioned it on the far side of the river prior to trailing to the MHB. So he wouldn't have to carry it while abducting, corraling, controlling the girls and so it wouldn't get wet if it was a planned river crossing.

If he went to, say, the cemetery first, would that be on the far side of the river? From there, would he be coming from the east as he arrived to park at the CPS building?

It makes me sick to think how the girls went from giddy to perhaps creeped to is that a gun?

When he said G...DTH, did they immediately comprehend? Did they think maybe he was LE, DNR, park police and was going to scold them for being on the bridge? When did full bore fear set in?

Horrors if he forced them across the river only for them to discover a killing field prepared... a camera... who knows what else....

All that redundant activity on the A_S account that morning -- was that all KAK? Was he synchronizing two phones?

Did KAK sell Libby's location? Via a shared, possibly unregistered cellphone that passed somehow from KAK to RA (and eventually back again)? Did KAK think this other buyer was going to create CSAM content for him (for his dropbox)? And did expect to meet Libby later that day, by agreement, virtual or in real time (in some fashion), KAK himself planned to show up as a super special agent to A_S who "couldn't be here but wanted me to give you this from him". (A prop from the photo shoot perhaps.)
I wonder if there's been any money to follow. Dro payms for addresses, access, photo shoots, etc.... awful to say was there a price tag for 2/13?

Yes, they had to cross the creek in order to get 'down the hill' and out of visual range. The creek at that time was relatively low, there was a sandbar area that showed searchers crossing it and it was up to their knees then.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

here ya go.

Also note that Gray labels the red dot as "Sue" when that should "Betsy". BB is the one who saw the group of 3-4 girls on her way to park then walked past Abby & Libby on her way back to her car.

Sue's car is the blue car that passes on 300 at the end of the video.

Thank you.
He began with where BB's car was seen on the HH cam and then worked backward to place the group of 4 girls on the bridge over highway 25. That part seems solid. His estimation of RA passing the cam and parking is reasonable. IMO

Beyond that, I'll take his word that he made assumptions.

 

[mrjitty]

Agreed, but at the time he may not have known AB was going to throw him under the bus and how much of an investigation by ISP was going to take place. MW asked for a bench trial originally.

AB and MW were 'good friends' had worked together in the past, MW might have felt loyalty was working both ways. I believe MW was used by AB to spread the SM mud slinging. Not that MW gets a pass from me. A man committed suicide during these leaks.

RSBM

My belief is that the Affidavit was crafted by AB to admit just the bare minimum to assist AB in the hearing, but without doing perjury. To me* it is artfully drafted to avoid mentioning whether MW was in the room with permission, whether he was ever shown the photos by AB, whether he believed he was allowed to take photos of the photos, whether AB showed him the Franks before or after he took the photos etc

Like it seems a very big question whether he was shown the Franks (and photos??) before the fateful snookering day or after it?

Or, for example, was he left to read the Franks, and he took the photos while he was on his own?

* a big cynic

ETA - i just noted one more thing. It said "he was at the office building waiting to visit" - this again strikes me as carefully constructed to be at first glance quite communicative, but actually super vague.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Transcript from Anna's interview from Sept. 30, 2022

18:12
confirm but i confirmed safely enough that we assigned paperwork for them to go on their gmail and their apple
18:19
accounts to go through all of their social media and had at no time found that they were being
18:28
followed were supposed to be meeting somebody we have no reason to believe in any way which is
18:34
also the reason why no amber alert was issued people questioned us about that to begin with
18:40
um no suspicious car no inclination that they were meeting anybody that might
18:45
have been different than who they said because they weren't meeting anybody they woke up and wanted to go and they
18:50
went um so we feel like very strongly they've gone through
18:56
all of those um possibilities and we have no reason to believe that they were
19:01
meeting somebody that wasn't who they said or that they had fake profiles um

Poor Abby's Mom it's so sad to read, but it came out that this was not the case. Abby & Libby were on SM and communicating with others. Even KG, Libby's sister, has stated she had no idea and was shocked that Libby was on some of these sites. These were young naive teenage girls, of course they were exploring SM.

I do know LE kept information even from the family during their investigation.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I suspect him being at home is just based on him saying that in his police interview

Maybe his 'real' phone was left at home, that would be Murder 101. I believe he used a burner phone that day, but I don't think the one he was using was the phone he showed to DD. Sneaky and sly that Ricky is.

IMO

 

[vinayd]

Yes real phone left at home. One of several burners taken with him to see DD to make a report at the grocery store so close to his job. Fresh clothes on. Wonder if he wore a hat? Probably not. So close to his home. So close to the trails.

No one came out of town to harm these girls. Just listened to some of the Murder Sheet interview with MW. He absolutely trusted/idolized AB. Remember in the Contempt Hearing at one point the state removes the fault from Rozzi and asks for contempt on AB only. "Andy". MW refers to him as that all throughout the interview. I understand if there is a gag order on that case as well since they feed right into one another. We sadly haven't seen the last of any of this.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Agreed, but at the time he may not have known AB was going to throw him under the bus and how much of an investigation by ISP was going to take place. MW asked for a bench trial originally.

AB and MW were 'good friends' had worked together in the past, MW might have felt loyalty was working both ways. I believe MW was used by AB to spread the SM mud slinging. Not that MW gets a pass from me. A man committed suicide during these leaks.

Ironic how in that TMS Podcast, according to MW, AB wanted to do something very 'off the cuff' in his presentation in another case when he worked there to the jury and the assisting Prosecutor said "No, not a good idea" the night before trial. AB supposedly showed up prepared to do just that anyway. Surprised, not one bit. I think AB likes to play fast and loose for the shock value. I don't think he ended up doing it. I will look for a link to that episode, you can learn a lot about MW and AB IMO from that.

EBM: Clarifying timeline

JMO

He originally asked for a jury trial.

12/04/2023

Jury Trial Demand Filed Motion for Trial by Jury Filed By: Westerman, Mitchell Thomas File Stamp: 12/04/2023

06/25/2024

Jury Trial Session: 05/14/2024 8:30 AM, Rescheduled Session: 06/25/2024 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.

 

[justtrish]

Yes I believe his height and stature made him a very overlooked suspect.
Bad guys don’t always look like big bad guys.
Again the terrorist recruited to take control of the planes on 911 were recruited specifically for the job because they were between 5’5” and 5’7”.

Hiding in plain sight.
AMO

This crime was so awful and specific many of us wonder if he's done this before or why he's never done it again. Often those that do crimes like this are serial killers. When we found out RA worked at CVS right in plain sight, able to see the family members of his victims on occasion, seeing local LE when they stop in, able to return to the scene of his evil deeds any time he wants to relive it.. I think well he didn't need to commit another crime and maybe this was his first, but since he wasn't caught, he could relive it and get some power trip from knowing he lived right there and nobody knew.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

This crime was so awful and specific many of us wonder if he's done this before or why he's never done it again. Often those that do crimes like this are serial killers. When we found out RA worked at CVS right in plain sight, able to see the family members of his victims on occasion, seeing local LE when they stop in, able to return to the scene of his evil deeds any time he wants to relive it.. I think well he didn't need to commit another crime and maybe this was his first, but since he wasn't caught, he could relive it and get some power trip from knowing he lived right there and nobody knew.

Who knows. I tend to believe he has done it before and got away with it. He moved away within 6 months of the crime but the remains were not found until months later. JMO of course.

 

[vinayd]

He originally asked for a jury trial.

12/04/2023

Jury Trial Demand Filed Motion for Trial by Jury Filed By: Westerman, Mitchell Thomas File Stamp: 12/04/2023

06/25/2024

Jury Trial Session: 05/14/2024 8:30 AM, Rescheduled Session: 06/25/2024 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.

Maybe pushed back as more discovery has come in? His true role expanded since the Contempt hearing. Could they up the charges?

Is MW sitting in jail during all this or out on bail? I don't have the fortitude to follow both of these lol.

 

[girlhasnoname]

He originally asked for a jury trial.

12/04/2023

Jury Trial Demand Filed Motion for Trial by Jury Filed By: Westerman, Mitchell Thomas File Stamp: 12/04/2023

06/25/2024

Jury Trial Session: 05/14/2024 8:30 AM, Rescheduled Session: 06/25/2024 8:30 AM, Judicial Officer: Cummins, Douglas B.

Thanks for catching that, I was able to edit my original post.

 

[snarast]

Absolute monster! I am now leaning toward prepping the scene and scoping it before coming back to complete the deed. I agree so much that he was a voyeur. If this is the case we will see it in evidence. A voyeur will creep on family and friends. Hidden cameras in the bathroom. Watching you while you sleep. Let's see what all unravels.

He must have arranged for clean clothes somehow. Maybe he parked his car nearby, yet secluded, with a clean-up kit there.

Not that he strikes me as an Israel Keyes-like enigma with special ops under the jovial hood. That said, don’t judge a book by it’s cover they say….as previously stated.

 

[Megnut]

Yes real phone left at home. One of several burners taken with him to see DD to make a report at the grocery store so close to his job. Fresh clothes on. Wonder if he wore a hat? Probably not. So close to his home. So close to the trails.

Rsbm

Dating myself but for those of you of my vintage, remember when pagers were a thing? And there was always that guy, the one who had a very normal job but wore a pager on his belt because he was just that important? RA strikes me as a guy like that. Probably had a personal cellphone and a professional cellphone... and self smug reasons for being that important.

So... I think he had KAK's cellphone that day, the one that turned up later, scrubbed, atop the Kline microwave. He probably presented his "work" cellphone to DD.

And his personal phone? Hidden behind legitimate-looking apps all his dark secrets, of which I'm guessing he has plenty.

One tentacle.

JMO

 

[vinayd]

He must have arranged for clean clothes somehow. Maybe he parked his car nearby, yet secluded, with a clean-up kit there.

Not that he strikes me as Israel Keyes. That said, don’t judge a book by it’s cover they say….as previously stated.

Yea.. I think a shower would be needed and he could have just pulled into his garage. Walked right into the house. I agree possible change of clothes if there was a kit stashed somewhere. I can't wait to find out when he went to DD. How he decided to go there and not to the station which was also so close? Did he go before the BG pic was released or after? So many questions!

 

[FromGermany1]

Absolute monster! I am now leaning toward prepping the scene and scoping it before coming back to complete the deed. I agree so much that he was a voyeur. If this is the case we will see it in evidence. A voyeur will creep on family and friends. Hidden cameras in the bathroom. Watching you while you sleep. Let's see what all unravels.

bbm
God didn't give him his staring googly eyes for nothing.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

PS: When RA was sitting in their car, waiting for his wife being ready with her shopping, and she appeared surprising him with some joking gestures in front of the driverside window, he stared at her, motionless. He had been working on his cell phone, afaik, and wasn't amused at all. I believe, he worked on very "interesting" things in his small free time and had to pretend, not to be frightened by KA's sudden appearance in the parking lot. MOO

 

[vinayd]

Any ideas?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Yes, they had to cross the creek in order to get 'down the hill' and out of visual range. The creek at that time was relatively low, there was a sandbar area that showed searchers crossing it and it was up to their knees then.

MOO

IMO they went down the hill in the south side of MHB. This allowed them to walk easily along the creek on uninhabited property of the snowbirds and then cross the creek at a shallow spot across from the crime scene. They were out of sight within minutes.
If they had gone down the hill on the northeast side was definitely more treacherous plus there would have been fences to cross. I do believe this is why searchers didn’t begin looking on that side.
Going down the hill on the south side allowed him to isolate them almost immediately and move them out of view. Perhaps even disorienting them so they didn’t know where to run for safety.
There are videos on YT showing individuals walking the assumed route. The crime scene is in a bowl like ravine hidden from view from the cemetery and bridge.
I do think he pre planned this spot.
All my opinions.

 

[vinayd]

Has it ever been said by locals that it was common to walk off the bridge down the hill? Was that often done or a part of walking the bridge. Doesn't seem that would be ideal so I agree it was a chosen spot.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Some possibilities --

Genealogy -- maybe they got a familial hit on trace evidence recovered at the crime scene...

Perhaps KAK provided an important detail...

Maybe RA fired up a retired burner phone... maybe his personal computer use got flagged in a sting...

Maybe he said something to someone that seemed to knowledgeable and creeped the listener out...

Perhaps another young teen, newly adulted, came forward with old information, having been groomed back then by A_S or E_A...

Perhaps a family member, with the benefit of some distance and reason, had a growing suspicion and called it in...

As

Admittedly I still don't have a grasp of the landmarks below the MHB so I might botch this from the outset --

Was the river crossing required, in order to get from DTH to the site where they were found?

Is there consensus on the thread as to whether crossing the river seemed premeditated or whether spontaneous, if for instance the girls tried to escape?

Consider: if RA used a tripod, perhaps he pre-positioned it on the far side of the river prior to trailing to the MHB. So he wouldn't have to carry it while abducting, corraling, controlling the girls and so it wouldn't get wet if it was a planned river crossing.

If he went to, say, the cemetery first, would that be on the far side of the river? From there, would he be coming from the east as he arrived to park at the CPS building?

It makes me sick to think how the girls went from giddy to perhaps creeped to is that a gun?

When he said G...DTH, did they immediately comprehend? Did they think maybe he was LE, DNR, park police and was going to scold them for being on the bridge? When did full bore fear set in?

Horrors if he forced them across the river only for them to discover a killing field prepared... a camera... who knows what else....

All that redundant activity on the A_S account that morning -- was that all KAK? Was he synchronizing two phones?

Did KAK sell Libby's location? Via a shared, possibly unregistered cellphone that passed somehow from KAK to RA (and eventually back again)? Did KAK think this other buyer was going to create CSAM content for him (for his dropbox)? And did expect to meet Libby later that day, by agreement, virtual or in real time (in some fashion), KAK himself planned to show up as a super special agent to A_S who "couldn't be here but wanted me to give you this from him". (A prop from the photo shoot perhaps.)
I wonder if there's been any money to follow. Dro payms for addresses, access, photo shoots, etc.... awful to say was there a price tag for 2/13?

Watching the GH you tube linked up thread may prove helpful.
Crossing the creek wasn’t required but for him to quickly control and isolate them, abducting them on the south side of the bridge then walking east a few minute and crossing the creek did just that.
The girls most likely were not familiar with that part of the trails and running past RA across a rickety bridge was not an option.