Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[Tricia]

Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.

Richard Allen has been arrested and charged with the murders of Abby and Libby

ISP page dedicated to the investigation (includes audio of suspect)

FOR MORE CLICK HERE FOR THE CARROL COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE FACEBOOK PAGE.

Anyone with information about this case, no matter how insignificant, is encouraged to call the Delphi Homicide Investigation Tip Line at (844) 459-5786.

Information can also be reported by calling the Indiana State Police at(800) 382-7537, or the Carroll County Sheriff's Department at (765) 564-2413.

Information can also be emailed to Abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

PICTURES OF ABBY AND LIBBY
Link to post with all threads 1 - 98 (Courtesy of margarita25)
Thread #99 Thread #100 Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105 Thread #106 Thread #107 Thread #108 Thread #109 Thread #110 Thread #111 Thread #112 Thread #113 Thread #114Thread #115 Thread #116 Thread #117 Thread #118 Thread #119 Thread #120 Thread #121 Thread #122 Thread #123 Thread #124 Thread #125 Thread #126 Thread #127 Thread #128 Thread #129 Thread #130 Thread #131 Thread #132 Thread #133 Thread #134 Thread #135 Thread #136 Thread #137 Thread #138 Thread #139 Thread #140 Thread #141 Thread #142 Thread #143 Thread #144 Thread #145 Thread #146 Thread #147 Thread #148 Thread #149 Thread #150 Thread #151 Thread 152 Thread #153 Thread #154 Thread #155 Thread #156 Thread #157 Thread #158 Thread #159 Thread #160 Thread #161 Thread #162 thread #163 Thread #164 Thread #165 Thread #166 Thread #167 Thread #168 Thread #169 Thread #170 Thread #171 Thread #172 Thread #173 Thread # 174 Thread #175. Thread #176 Thread #177 Thread #178 Thread #179 Thread #180 Thread #181

Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*
IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

Rules Etiquette & Information

Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video

Grayhuze youtube channel
Murder sheet YouTube

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.

NOTE - per Tricia and Sillybilly’s 5.28.2021 post here, JBC as a poi is now open for discussion in the Delphi thread.

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

A consolidation of ADMIN & MOD notes (edited November 24, 2022):

- Members are allowed to discuss Richard Allen's voice as heard on the Gray Hughes podcast. Members may NOT link directly to RA's wife’s social media accounts.

- Speculation about RA’s possible involvement in other cases belongs in the OTHER CASES thread.

- Speculation that is not based on known fact is not allowed.

- Please use initials only for anyone other than victims or perps.

- If you have questions about rules or moderation, please do not ask them on the thread. Just jump off any post to use the Report feature to ask and a Mod or Admin will respond as soon as possible.

- Rumors are not allowed. If you can't link information to Websleuths approved sources, do NOT post it with "I read it somewhere" or "I'll find the link later ...".

- Sleuthing or discussing RSOs just because they are on the registry is not allowed. A thread specific exception may be made by Tricia or an Admin depending on geographical location in relation a crime.

- Photo alterations or side-by-side comparisons of unrelated pictures are not allowed.

 

[Tricia]

Mod Note:
For general JBC II discussions please use his thread. In Abby & Libby’s thread, JBC II should only be discussed in the context of a possible connection to Abby & Libby’s case.
Thanks Everyone!

JBC II Thread:
IN - James Chadwell II, 42, arrested after girl 9, found in his home, Lafayette, 19 Apr 2021 #3

Added 12/12/21
For general discussion on KAK’s current case please use his thread.
IN, Peru - Kegan Anthony Kline, 27, arrested Aug 29, 2020, 30 Counts associated with CSAM

 

[Tricia]

ADMIN NOTE:

Sorry folks, but statement analysis, body language analysis, amateur handwriting analysis is not allowed unless sourced to a credentialed, forensic specialist involved in the case under discussion.

This discussion is dedicated to Abby and Libby. Posts that do not relate directly to their case are off topic and such posts get removed. If you wish to discuss personal matters, please do so with your WS friends through PM or in the basement.

Also, the presumption of innocence is part and parcel of the judicial process. It does not apply to the general public who are entitled to express their opinion. Members are not here to be lectured or chastised by others for expressing their personal opinions. If you have an issue, use the Report feature and let Mods or Admins determine what is or is not okay to post.

Thanks.

Sillybilly
WS Administrator

Click here for The Rules

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Please move on from discussion of military time. Obviously we don't have the answer and it is just derailing the discussion. Rather than remove the numerous posts about it, we decided to leave it as it getting too convoluted to remove so many posts that ultimately morphed into discussion about 2 or 3 PCAs.

Just move on from the military times discussion. Thanks !!

 

[MadMcGoo]

Continue the discussion here.

 

[AugustWest]

@vinayd

In answer to your question regarding discovery in the last thread:

Investigative work done, such as reports, by police (which is an executive branch function) is not the work product of a prosecutor (judicial branch function). Any analysis done of those reports (such as a prosecutor's impression of the report) would be work product.

If the evidence is exculpatory, regardless of what branch of government it came from, it must be turned over to a defense.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I just hope it doesn’t take JG weeks to decide on this stuff. We’re still waiting on some rulings.

 

[TTF14]

@vinayd

In answer to your question regarding discovery in the last thread:

Investigative work done, such as reports, by police (which is an executive branch function) is not the work product of a prosecutor (judicial branch function). Any analysis done of those reports (such as a prosecutor's impression of the report) would be work product.

If the evidence is exculpatory, regardless of what branch of government it came from, it must be turned over to a defense.

How strict is the Court, usually, with holding attorneys to deadlines? Is this 9 month delay by the State "sanctionable," in your opinion?

 

[Schatz]

Having a hard time keeping up, but TC stopped working on the case when his partner was ambushed and killed in July 2021. IIRC he then retired at the end of the year (2021). It seems sensible to me that he may have been deeply affected by Ferency's death. I wonder if that is what Nick is trying to get at with this most recent filing?

 

[AugustWest]

How strict is the Court, usually, with holding attorneys to deadlines? Is this 9 month delay by the State "sanctionable," in your opinion?

In my experience, a judge will usually be more lenient in the first instance of a deadline, then will get less lenient with subsequent infractions. Of course, this is only if both sides are working in good faith to cooperate with each other. The court doesn't want to have to deal with any of this and expects the parties to work together cooperatively. A judge expects parties to not make things hard on each other or on he/she (that particular judge). This obviously varies from judge to judge.

I would be livid and asking for sanctions if I was receiving discovery that was due a year ago. Hell, I would be asking for the entire case to be thrown out at this point. Definitely sanctionable in my eyes, but I'm obviously a stickler for fairness and abiding by the rules. This is all crazy in my opinion; getting discovery this late in the game would have me ready to smash things.

 

[TTF14]

Having a hard time keeping up, but TC stopped working on the case when his partner was ambushed and killed in July 2021. IIRC he then retired at the end of the year (2021). It seems sensible to me that he may have been deeply affected by Ferency's death. I wonder if that is what Nick is trying to get at with this most recent filing?

I think Nick's just doing what he learned in law school. Trying to discredit the witness, especially since the information he'll be testifying to makes sense.

 

[vinayd]

@vinayd

In answer to your question regarding discovery in the last thread:

Investigative work done, such as reports, by police (which is an executive branch function) is not the work product of a prosecutor (judicial branch function). Any analysis done of those reports (such as a prosecutor's impression of the report) would be work product.

If the evidence is exculpatory, regardless of what branch of government it came from, it must be turned over to a defense.

Thank you I get it. I really do. But I don't believe anything was exculpatory. To me the State holding something like a ring cam showing RA home all day with car parked. But I have heard you and will take your expertise here. Thanks for explaining also why it's not work product.

How strict is the Court, usually, with holding attorneys to deadlines? Is this 9 month delay by the State "sanctionable," in your opinion?

Yes I've said several times and even gave a Doug Carter style sermon on it lol. Sanctions for errybody!

 

[TTF14]

Thank you I get it. I really do. But I don't believe anything was exculpatory. To me the State holding something like a ring cam showing RA home all day with car parked. But I have heard you and will take your expertise here.

But the State gets to decide what's exculpatory or not? What if they don't know the defense's strategy so don't know if they hold a piece of exculpatory evidence (from some investigating they either didn't do on their own or tried to hide that they did because it doesn't fit their agenda)? Shouldn't it ALL be turned over? Again, asking because I don't know .

 

[vinayd]

But the State gets to decide what's exculpatory or not? What if they don't know the defense's strategy so don't know if they hold a piece of exculpatory evidence (from some investigating they either didn't do on their own or tried to hide that they did because it doesn't fit their agenda)? Shouldn't it ALL be turned over? Again, asking because I don't know .

Based on their investigate work they either rule suspects in or out. If someone was ruled out with solid alibi why is this being questioned? I digress because I don't have the understanding to wrap my head around it but I trust what's being said here which is it should have all been turned over. I just don't agree.. don't mean I'm right

 

[AugustWest]

Thank you I get it. I really do. But I don't believe anything was exculpatory. To me the State holding something like a ring cam showing RA home all day with car parked. But I have heard you and will take your expertise here. Thanks for explaining also why it's not work product.

Yes I've said several times and even gave a Doug Carter style sermon on it lol. Sanctions for errybody!

I'm not making decisions about what I think is or isn't exculpatory; I'm only explaining what the rules require. We have rules for a reason, they have come down from a long line of people going all the way back to England, and they exist for very good reasons, even if they don't seem apparent to most.

 

[susiQ]

I haven’t quite finished reading the last thread so this may have been corrected by another member. When EF asked about “if my spit was found on one of the girls” he asked this of Officer Murphy NOT Click. FM pg 72
Of course, he also mentioned to his sister MJ that he spit on Abby, the “troublemaker.”

 

[AugustWest]

Based on their investigate work they either rule suspects in or out. If someone was ruled out with solid alibi why is this being questioned? I digress because I don't have the understanding to wrap my head around it but I trust what's being said here which is it should have all been turned over. I just don't agree.. don't mean I'm right

It has just as much to do with hiding the information than the information itself. The defense is hindered if it isn't allowed information to develop a working strategy. For instance, in the instant issue, if they would have known about relevant TC information, they may have planned depositions differently, but now they can't because it is too late in the game. Now they have to decide between suboptimal strategy and the wishes of their client to not remain in a cage longer than he has to.

Edit: changed "much more" to "just as much"

 

[Salah11]

How will we know RA is guilty without a fair trial? If he’s not guilty but convicted because the prosecutor is cheating the real killer stays free. Who would want that?

I agree with a fair trial but at the moment from my perspective we are just getting a load of rubbish from the defence who are just throwing a ton of stuff at the wall in the hopes something sticks. I am still waiting to see why they failed to mention RA’s confession to mum and wife and why they failed to mention that in the last motion.

 

[vinayd]

I haven’t quite finished reading the last thread so this may have been corrected by another member. When EF asked about “if my spit was found on one of the girls” he asked this of Officer Murphy NOT Click. FM pg 72
Of course, he also mentioned to his sister MJ that he spit on Abby, the “troublemaker.”

thank you! that was me who mentioned that.