Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

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I just can't see how we get to trial in 3 weeks?

Either bridge guy, the bullet, the confessions are getting tossed out, or the defence has to ask for a continuance because according to their own filing, they didn't have time to review the discovery.

It feels like this filing should have come when they filed the speedy trial motion, because most of the things they complained about existed back then - rather than wait to complain to the judge 3 weeks before the trial? Maybe that is the strategy to collapse the trial? Their argument is now they can't be ready.

From the motion:

The fact that the State of Indiana has violated rules of discovery through very late disclosure of large volumes of evidence, including evidence that supports the theories of innocence, has put the defense in a precarious position where it could have (1) kept the October 2024 trial date and then spent the next 6-8 months reviewing late evidence that the State of Indiana had in its possession at the risk of continued deterioration of their client’s physical and mental wellbeing OR (2) seek a speedy trial and hope that they can put the case together in spite of the significant discovery violations perpetuated by the State that have put the defense at least 9-10 months behind where it should have been had the State of Indiana followed the rules.
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AugustWest said:
Wouldn't you agree, or at least not argue with the notion, that psychosis comes and goes? That false confessions in fact do occur?

I've said this before, but why would the defense include any more information in a motion (which is written for a judge, not the public) than he or she would need to make a ruling on an evidentiary issue?
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I would normally agree, but this particular D Team uses Motions, Memos and anything else to get their "Poor us, poor Rick" story out to the public and generate as much confusion as possible.

IMO, they have very much tried their pitiful case in the public eye. Now it's go time and they are NOT READY. None of this surprises me in the least.

MOO
 
FrostedGlass said:
I'll be equally curious to see how the P's discrediting of Todd Click goes over with the jury.
Will they see it as them eating one of their own or exposing rot on the inside?
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Todd Click was the man of the hour, the hero of the defense. He and his other 2 mates had it alllll figured out, but LE, ISP and FBI just wouldn't listen, Click even continued to insert himself in the case after he 'retired'.

Click wanted to be kept in the loop, couldn't understand why the State or ISP wouldn't divulge their info on RA during a meeting with him. I think that hurt his feelings. :(

Not so much glory anymore with Clicks record and now the D is desperately trying to stop a gaping wound from bleeding out further.

JMO
 
mrjitty said:
I just can't see how we get to trial in 3 weeks?

Either bridge guy, the bullet, the confessions are getting tossed out, or the defence has to ask for a continuance because according to their own filing, they didn't have time to review the discovery.

It feels like this filing should have come when they filed the speedy trial motion, because most of the things they complained about existed back then - rather than wait to complain to the judge 3 weeks before the trial? Maybe that is the strategy to collapse the trial? Their argument is now they can't be ready.

From the motion:



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As we suspected ;). They aren't ready. This last filing set the stage for a continuance. It is a matter of time until they ask for a continuance, in my opinion. Unless the judge thow out all the possibily incriminating things against their client of course, including the video of the brave girl who recorded her's and her friend's abductor/probably killer.. :rolleyes:
 
StarryStarryNight said:
His lawyers and RA himself would have been better served if early on, they would have used their time and money looking hard into RA’s mental state.
Why they ignored that is one more head-scratcher in this case.
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RA was seen by Mental Health workers early on because of his talk of self harm. The State must take that seriously, especially if RA had a history of depression, so he was evaluated. Even the Defense stated RA was adjusting as well to life at Westville as anyone could from November up until April.

That was the time of RA's confessions and after the State's big dump of discovery. I think RA knew then he was caught dead to rights and wanted to get his confession out to his wife and mom before it went public. I wonder if RA ever wanted a plea deal during this time?

MOO
 
@zh0r4 Here are 2 links to the Indiana rules for discovery. One is for easier reading but they both contain the same info.

What people seem to be overlooking is the first discovery deadline which is the following, which the P obviously didn't meet:

(B) Disclosures by the State(1) The state must disclose and furnish all relevant items and information under section (B)(2) to the defense within thirty days from the date of the initial hearing, an appearance by defense counsel, or an appearance by pro se defendant, whichever is later.
Here is when the D made their appearance and the P had 30 days to turn over their discovery. That date was Dec. 14, 2022.
11/14/2022Appearance Filed
Co-Counsel Appearance
For Party: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 11/14/2022
11/14/2022Appearance Filed
Appearance
For Party: Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 11/14/2022

Rule 2.5 - Discovery, Ind. R. Crim. P. 2.5 | Casetext Search + Citator

Read Rule 2.5 - Discovery, Ind. R. Crim. P. 2.5, see flags on bad law, and search Casetext’s comprehensive legal database
casetext.com
 
I woke up refreshed with a new annoyance about how the D is handling this case. They have all the discovery they need that was due by the court's deadline. Just because they haven't seen it doesn't mean it's not there.

Also the mention of someone who "appeared" to be dead could have been them simply waking a sleeping suspect or performing a search warrant. Their language is most dramatic and colorful. The Judge made a discovery deadline of 11/1/2023. I'm going to start calling this the extended discovery because it has nothing to do with their client and his case. Their theme has been to mention how it's way too much discovery to discover their client innocent. They want to be hand held and I guess for the State to give them an organized thumb drive of files. But wait they have it because Andy sent it to BW "on accident" who sent it to other youtubers.

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girlhasnoname said:
Todd Click was the man of the hour, the hero of the defense. He and his other 2 mates had it alllll figured out, but LE, ISP and FBI just wouldn't listen, Click even continued to insert himself in the case after he 'retired'.

Click wanted to be kept in the loop, couldn't understand why the State or ISP wouldn't divulge their info on RA during a meeting with him. I think that hurt his feelings. :(

Not so much glory anymore with Clicks record and now the D is desperately trying to stop a gaping wound from bleeding out further.

JMO
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I think Todd and his team was asked to investigated the white supremacist angle and, according to the state, they didn't find enough evidence but Click keep going trying to make a puzzle piece fit and was married to his theory. I don't think he has bad intentions but he seems obsessed with his theory. I wonder if Murphy share the same opinion as Todd. Is is a huge investigation, so probably there are more officers in the investigation who are married to different theories but the D choose the odinist angle because the confessions of RA, imo. The vast majority of the officers probably believe it is RA.

The fact the D is asking for the P not cross-examining Todd leds to believe they don't have confidence that Todd will hold up under cross.
 
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layer said:
After more than seven years of twists and turns, one thing I can say with absolute certainty:
Abby & Libby will never be forgotten
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To some people they are just another case and when it's done they will move on to the next one.

What was done to those 2 innocent young girls and the brutality of the crimes against them will never be forgotten by their families and loved ones and those of us here who truly care and want the Truth and Justice.

I will think of them often, as I do many cases that I became so invested on here, Jayme C, Mollie T and many others. You're right, Abby & Libby won't be forgotten, I just hope they will be remembered for how they lived and not by the cruel and vicious way the died or the awful judicial way this case was handled.

JMO
 
She also denied their motion to dismiss on 4/2 saying they couldn't prove anything was exculpatory. Westfall nor Holder were key suspects.

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In their latest motion for sanctions the D points out the files weren't returned to them the same way they passed them off. Could it be when they were withdrawn from the case the new D team organized the files in a way to make sense to them?

The discovery packet I have sitting in my house for my brother in law's case. No body organized it. It's a heap of papers that I had to go through one by one. The D had the audacity to mention this in their filing. Yes. Yes you will need to look at everything you asked for if you want to find what you think is there.
 
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StarryStarryNight said:
Or RA could plead guilty but mentally ill, which is probably closer to the truth.
Just my thoughts. Don’t hurt me.
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You know I luv ya' SSN, but I don't believe RA is mentally ill IMO, I think it was stated here not too long ago he had been treated for depression like millions of people.

Quite the opposite, he maintained solid employment, a long term marriage, financially responsible (paid off home), no arrest record to speak of. Happy helpful CVS Mgr/Pharm Tech, and local pool tournament player and beer drinker.

Based on the evidence I've seen so far, RA is a child sexual predator and murderer IMO. Most people would have never seen this side of RA, and I believe that is why he was able to 'hide in plain sight' for so long.

No hurting allowed, ever. Hah :)

MOO
 
girlhasnoname said:
You know I luv ya' SSN, but I don't believe RA is mentally ill IMO, I think it was stated here not too long ago he had been treated for depression like millions of people.

Quite the opposite, he maintained solid employment, a long term marriage, financially responsible (paid off home), no arrest record to speak of. Happy helpful CVS Mgr/Pharm Tech, and local pool tournament player and beer drinker.

Based on the evidence I've seen so far, RA is a child sexual predator and murderer IMO. Most people would have never seen this side of RA, and I believe that is why he was able to 'hide in plain sight' for so long.

No hurting allowed, ever. Hah :)

MOO
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Yes I was going to mention. I would replace the word mentally ill with competent. I think he was mentally ill in the way a lot of people are. Maybe a diagnosis of depression or generalized anxiety. He was competent at the time of the crime and that's what would matter if they try to go the incompetent route.
 
susane7 said:
As we suspected ;). They aren't ready. This last filing set the stage for a continuance. It is a matter of time until they ask for a continuance, in my opinion. Unless the judge thow out all the possibily incriminating things against their client of course, including the video of the brave girl who recorded her's and her friend's abductor/probably killer.. :rolleyes:
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This D has never been ready. They lied in Oct 18th in chamber meeting with Judge G, they lied when they said they were ready to go to trial on the original Jan date to the SCOIN, and again when they filed the Motion for Speedy Trial. It's always been a ruse.

They have constantly and consistently lied about being ready and I've said that more times than I can count. Now the rubber has met the road and they have no recourse except to blame it on the State for late discovery and things not presented to them all labeled neatly and nicely showing them exactly where to find each and every piece of information they might need. Sorry fellas, it doesn't work that way.

This flood of Motions is not unexpected, nor am I worried about them. What I do find ironic is that Todd Click has turned into a stink bomb problem instead of star witness. Rut roh. :eek:

ALL JMO
 
mrjitty said:
I just can't see how we get to trial in 3 weeks?

Either bridge guy, the bullet, the confessions are getting tossed out, or the defence has to ask for a continuance because according to their own filing, they didn't have time to review the discovery.

It feels like this filing should have come when they filed the speedy trial motion, because most of the things they complained about existed back then - rather than wait to complain to the judge 3 weeks before the trial? Maybe that is the strategy to collapse the trial? Their argument is now they can't be ready.

From the motion:



Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com acrobat.adobe.com
Click to expand...
Strategy by the Defense IMO. They wanted to look all puffed up and confident when they knew they weren't. Now they can ask for continuance while making it appear to be all the mean old State's fault.

Slick and underhanded moves IMO, but they haven't fooled everyone, mainly just themselves and their rabid FB, SM, and Podcasting followers.

JMO
 
susane7 said:
I think Todd and his team was asked to investigated the white supremacist angle and, according to the state, they didn't find enough evidence but Click keep going trying to make a puzzle piece fit and was married to his theory. I don't think he has bad intentions but he seems obsessed with his theory. I wonder if Murphy share the same opinion as Todd. Is is a huge investigation, so probably there are more officers in the investigation who are married to different theories but the D choose the odinist angle because the confessions of RA, imo. The vast majority of the officers probably believe it is RA.

The fact the D is asking for the P not cross-examining Todd leds to believe they don't have confidence that Todd will hold up under cross.
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Or that he isn't a credible witness.

JMO
 
It’s funny they keep moaning about RA mental health and his deterioration and yet they are clearly not ready for Trial and are using every snide tactic they have to get it delayed.

So quite clearly they don’t care about their client and his mental health or they wouldn’t want him locked up for another 6 months when he is so innocent. :D ( likely bare minimum).

ETA - on the plus side maybe he can beat his current record of 25+ confessions to various people and aim for 50 if the trial is delayed. It will give him a purpose!

Moo
 
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According to the docket. The only people filing for discovery is the State. Has the D turned over their discovery yet? It's an exchange I thought :) Maybe they are filing their request under seal? Or are they just requesting sanctions?

Can you request sanctions without asking the court to compel discovery? They seem to do them at the same time, motion to compel with sanctions.


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SANCTIONS:
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Forgot their attachment so then this is on the record :)

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