Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[Caylee Advocate]

RSBM
You don’t need three guesses for that! I know who’d be on the top of my list! JMO

Mine too.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'm trying to limit myself to just one person but then I decided to make it plural.
The B-G violation thing needs a bit more definition before I fully decide how many names I'm interested in.

I am up to five with a possible six, but 1 really stands front and center.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

To what end?
If the state has the goods the defense has the goods. Let's say John robs a bank. He's caught on video, there are eyewitnesses that identify him, he left his DNA on the counter, fingerprints on the robbery note, and the license plate of his Yugo was captured on exterior video as he made his escape.
Now his lawyers publicly say they believe John is innocent, seek no plea deal, plead not guilty, demand a speedy trial, and point out that one of the witnesses inaccurately thought John had hazel eyes.
I don't get it.

You lost me at Yugo. No one would rob a bank with this as transportation.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I only see three possibilities at this point.
1. They didn't care enough about the girls to give the attention to detail required to properly (or even adequately) carry out an investigation.
2. They cared a lot but the city, county and state authorities really were just this monumentally incompetent.
3. Something more sinister is going on.
I don't like any of those choices, I'm scrambling for one that's easier to swallow.

4. It was meant to be lost out of fear and or threats??

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I’d scratch #1 as I don’t think they could be that callous not to care about those two innocent girls.
I guess I’d scratch #2 as well as I just cannot believe they could be that “monumentally incompetent. I just can’t.
So, I’m left with #3. Try as I might, I can’t shake that one. Someone’s covering for someone. There’s something deep and dark in Delphi.
JMHO

BBM:
An oath perhaps?? MOO

 

[susiQ]

BBM:
An oath perhaps?? MOO

Absolutely! More than one. MOO

 

[mrjitty]

State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion

The defense was made aware of the geofence experts and looks like they chose to write a Franks instead. The State calls out they have had this evidence from 1st discovery disclosure & once they were reinstated.
Pg 3:
View attachment 499315

Provided in spreadsheet form pg 4:

View attachment 499317

Going back to the State's Response on 3/17. They addressed the late discovery.

Adobe Acrobat

yes the 3rd franks was blatantly an effort to promote conspiracies

it clearly had nothing to do with the search warrant

 

[FromGermany1]

I only see three possibilities at this point.
1. They didn't care enough about the girls to give the attention to detail required to properly (or even adequately) carry out an investigation.
2. They cared a lot but the city, county and state authorities really were just this monumentally incompetent.
3. Something more sinister is going on.
I don't like any of those choices, I'm scrambling for one that's easier to swallow.

MOO 3. - but I can't imagine at all, that city/county/state would sacrifice some little Delphi CVS employee for a well-kept secret, if he is innocent. Is the magic trick, not even remotely to provide the death penalty and to get him free at all costs, IF he is the current scapegoat?
It doesn't really make any sense, but I want to express my thoughts and my doubts.

 

[susiQ]

I find it interesting that many seem to be convinced that conspiracies do not exist. Perhaps we should remove the word from our dictionaries?

Well, we just had a first degree murder case which resulted in a not guilty verdict were it is alleged and under special investigation that 3 officers colluded to falsify their statement to a jury to ensure a first degree murder conviction. Thankfully it was exposed and the jury came to the right verdict despite the officers’ conspiracy (collusion) to subvert justice. JMHO

Eta: link

 

[FromGermany1]

In Dulin’s report as stated in the FM, he looked for the audio recording of his interview with RA and could not find it. Are we surprised? Evidence just goes “poof” in CC! What then? Do they just make it up on the fly!? I’m sorry, but Keystone Cops comes to mind except none of this is a laughing matter.

“I checked my audio recordings and cannot find one for him. I will keep looking because I am sure I recorded every interaction I had related to my assigned leads.”
FM pg 132

Right.

Do people steal from each other in the headquarters?

 

[mrjitty]

I find it interesting that many seem to be convinced that conspiracies do not exist. Perhaps we should remove the word from our dictionaries?

Well, we just had a first degree murder case which resulted in a not guilty verdict were it is alleged and under special investigation that 3 officers colluded to falsify their statement to a jury to ensure a first degree murder conviction. Thankfully it was exposed and the jury came to the right verdict despite the officers’ conspiracy (collusion) to subvert justice. JMHO

Criminal conspiracies obviously exist but for me the dividing line between an actual criminal conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is evidence.

In Franks 3 the defence sought to promote a conspiracy theory to the galleries via the fact free allegation that Odinists were milling around the crime scene with their phones; yet

1. These people were are identified and are not odinists.

This ought to be obvious to anyone thinking about this for 2 minutes. Obviously the Odinist killers could not have been milling around the crime scene with their phones or they would have been caught back in '17. The defence obviously know this - the point was rather obviously to tap into an existing conspiracy theory.

In our case, the Defense is alleging that the crime was committed by several individuals
involved in Odinism. The Defense has filed several motions with his theory contained in the
motions. The Defense continues to promote this theory to the public with no evidence to support
the theory. The Defense have come to the point where they are making false statements in their
motions in a continued effort to support the theory. This is one of those occasions.

2. Turco does not support the idea any kind of Odinist sacrifice took place

Again the point appears to have been a conspiracy that the prosecution are trying to cover for odinist killers by hushing up Turco - but even if true, that can logically have nothing to do with the search warrant.

It is unclear as to the reason the Defense chose to have at least half of the content of this Frank’s Motion address events that occurred nearly a year after the submission of the search warrant and supporting probable cause affidavit. It obviously fails to meet the burden due to the fact that the Turco interview could have no bearing on what the probable cause affidavit

State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion

ETA: clean up and gardening

 

[susiQ]

Criminal conspiracies obviously exist but for me the dividing line between an actual criminal conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is evidence.

In Franks 3 the defence sought to promote a conspiracy theory to the galleries via the fact free allegation that Odinists were milling around the crime scene with their phones; yet

1. These people were are identified and are not odinists.

This ought to be obvious to anyone thinking about this for 2 minutes. Obviously the Odinist killers could not have been milling around the crime scene with their phones or they would have been caught back in '17. The defence obviously know this - the point was rather obviously to tap into an existing conspiracy theory.



2. Turco does not support the idea any kind of Odinist sacrifice took place

Again the point appears to have been a conspiracy that the prosecution are trying to cover for odinist killers by hushing up Turco - but even if true, that can logically have nothing to do with the search warrant.



State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion

ETA: clean up and gardening

What would be your explanation for BH telling his ex AH that PW and his “people” did it? And if he truly believed this, did he tell LE during his “lost” interview? If not, why not? I asked this question earlier. PW did in fact give DNA in August 2023. I wonder if BH was ever asked to provide DNA in 2017? PW was not in 2017. Did BH provide DNA in 2023? Obviously, they collected DNA from the CS. AND, why would they bother collecting PW’s DNA AFTER they had RA arrested and in prison?

Interesting, you say the people identified were not Odinists. According to RA, neither is he. Yet, we have a crime scene with at least three “signatures” according to RI. My issue isn’t necessarily with whether or not the girls were “sacrificed” or just murdered and it was made to look that way for whatever reason. I could speculate on motive for the killings and why BH would want to implicate PW, but I would like to retain my privileges here .
All JMO.

 

[mrjitty]

IMO there is still a significant pre-trial iceberg out there which is to what extent the Judge is going to allow SODDI

I outlined some of the Indiana Authorities in this post.

tldr; hearsay like EF's sister's tip is difficult to run. You really need some direct evidence connecting the alternate suspects to the crime (see Sterling vs State of Indiana)

This is why the defence may prefer to run with the deficient investigation theory instead. In this variant, you don't rely on hearsay to suggest EF was the real killer, but rather claim the leads themselves weren't run to ground due to a failed investigation.

The problem with that may be that the evidence is all around that the Odinists were investigated. That is how we know about them and know BH has an alibi for example.

This can get esoteric, but IMO the prosecution do not need to rule out every theoretical suspect. They just need to show evidence RA is guilty to BARD standard. This may also be why the prosecution intentionally leave open the door to accomplices.

They can argue that RA is definitely one of the killers, so raising the possibility of an accomplice does not actually raise doubt.

 

[snooptroop88]

Have been cuddled up recently with a map I found some time ago online, and this is literally the ONLY map that "gets my mind right" with all the ins and outs of the locations. Delphi murders - Google My Maps

Am moving deeper and deeper into the lone SK theory, have always wondered about why a lone SK would cross that creek. When I blow up this map at location 2 so location 3's still in view, it makes total sense to me, though, because he didn't just want the angle, he wanted distance. He doesn't actually have to cross the creek to get the angle. He'd now be parallel to anyone approaching from his "unwalked" side of that bridge. And I think the trail ends at pretty much where BG forces the victims off the bridge, so I would think there's minimum chance of that regardless. He's probably reasonably sure nobody's coming from the side he just walked, but he knows if someone does somehow get on that bridge, he may be spotted, so he's got to 1) choose the best spot to avoid detection, and 2) choose a good spot if he needs to run and escape at some point. The spot near the cemetery seems like it would provide both of those for BG, and looking at this map, I can really see exactly where there are narrow points of crossing. These would be to his east & north, viewing the directions as to the reader's right for east, upward for north. I believe he chose that spot in advance. Every day, I become more and more convinced this was a lone SK.

 

[vinayd]

Nothing stinks in Delphi. Delphi was minding their business until these girls were murdered. Then the entire internet played detective. 70,000 tips?! The conspiracy should be who protected RA for 5 years. What band of brothers lost his tip? Who did he make mad to finally remove that protection and get him arrested? I don’t know if his stature is making some want to baby him but I won’t be.

 

[susiQ]

Do people steal from each other in the headquarters?

I don’t know but there sure is an inordinate amount of incompetence going around, so much it really is unbelievable.

 

[mrjitty]

What would be your explanation for BH telling his ex AH that PW and his “people” did it? And if he truly believed this, did he tell LE during his “lost” interview? If not, why not? I asked this question earlier. PW did in fact give DNA in August 2023. I wonder if BH was ever asked to provide DNA in 2017? PW was not in 2017. Did BH provide DNA in 2023? Obviously, they collected DNA from the CS. AND, why would they bother collecting PW’s DNA AFTER they had RA arrested and in prison?

Firstly these things have nothing to do with a Franks motion which is what my original post was about.

As to BH saying that - it strikes me as a clearly hearsay comment that likely can't be used at trial? Or do you think the defence will try to call him as a witness? I am sceptical the Judge would allow that.

Interesting, you say the people identified were not Odinists. According to RA, neither is he. Yet, we have a crime scene with at least three “signatures” according to RI. My issue isn’t necessarily with whether or not the girls were “sacrificed” or just murdered and it was made to look that way for whatever reason. I could speculate on motive for the killings and why BH would want to implicate PW, but I would like to retain my privileges here .
All JMO.

My point was those people are identified and are not the 'real killers'. It should be obvious that law enforcement was not sitting on an AT&T map showing the killers. If they had that, they would have solved the case in the first days.

As we all know, most killer(s) realise not to take their phone to the crime scene

 

[FromGermany1]

Do we know, how many tips the CS telephone hotline has "lost", when data loss is so very common in the Delphi case? Approximately 50.000+ were left, afaik.

 

[mrjitty]

Do we know, how many tips the CS telephone hotline has lost, when data loss is so very common in the Delphi case? Approximately 50.000+ were left, afaik.

I suspect DD never recorded the tip. Nothing was lost. He just took a note and his comment about looking for the recording is CYA

 

[vinayd]

As far as BH he was tipped in several times and prob still being tipped in today. Maybe his ex wanted the tip money. Maybe EF sisters conspired against their mentally challenged brother for … tip money. Either way no one is arrested for this crime at this time but RA.