Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[mrjitty]

Oooo hadn't thought of that

It's seems quite the coincidence that the defence move to compel about brady info they understand to exist for one officer and at the exact same time the prosecutor writes for Clicks record on the same basis. The prosecution were clearly never going to call Click, which is also good practice if someone has brady issues. So why hide it? Maybe they actually didn't know?

If Click has hidden brady issues, that could be quite bad IMO - he is supposedly the star witness for the defence

 

[snooptroop88]

STATE’S OBJECTION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO SUPPRESS FILED APRIL 11TH, 2024
...
15. The State requests that the Defense be required to identify the specific statements of
Richard Allen that were illegally coerced and identify the state actor whose conduct
supports the allegations of coercion and describe the conduct they believe to be either
physically or psychologically coercive before the State is required to respond for further
analysis by the Court.
16. In the absence of specific allegations by the Defendant as to each statement against his
interest that is involuntary as a result of law enforcement interrogation, the State asserts
that the Defendant has not sufficiently identified statements subject to a Motion to
Suppress.
---
Come on, D, your YouTube friends are waiting! That Franks memo was filled with rich detail. Why so quiet?

 

[mrjitty]

Well, the State did respond to it. They addressed it in their responsive motion filed yesterday. Points 14-16 in that motion directly speak to that.

ETA: defense seeks relief (suppression), files motion addressing why relief is appropriate, prosecution files motion why relief is not appropriate, judge makes ruling (which hasn't been made yet).

Sure - 14-16 is what I am getting at.

They say the D must particularise each confession, identify the state actor, and explain the conduct that meets the standard for suppression? I have sympathy for that.

15. The State requests that the Defense be required to identify the specific statements of Richard Allen that were illegally coerced and identify the state actor whose conduct supports the allegations of coercion and describe the conduct they believe to be either physically or psychologically coercive before the State is required to respond for further analysis by the Court.
16. In the absence of specific allegations by the Defendant as to each statement against his interest that is involuntary as a result of law enforcement interrogation, the State asserts that the Defendant has not sufficiently identified statements subject to a Motion to Suppress.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

 

[mrjitty]

STATE’S OBJECTION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO SUPPRESS FILED APRIL 11TH, 2024
...
15. The State requests that the Defense be required to identify the specific statements of
Richard Allen that were illegally coerced and identify the state actor whose conduct
supports the allegations of coercion and describe the conduct they believe to be either
physically or psychologically coercive before the State is required to respond for further
analysis by the Court.
16. In the absence of specific allegations by the Defendant as to each statement against his
interest that is involuntary as a result of law enforcement interrogation, the State asserts
that the Defendant has not sufficiently identified statements subject to a Motion to
Suppress.
---
Come on, D, your YouTube friends are waiting! That Franks memo was filled with rich detail. Why so quiet?

In their episode this week, Murder Sheet appeared to suggest that the confession(s) to the Warden might be written in letter(s) to him. I recall them hinting in that direction when they reported from the 2023 safe keeping hearing when this all first blew up.

If he has written confessions down, that would obviously be another big problem on top of recorded calls.

As the Judge already found last year that RA had better than average treatment, and the defence made false representations I suspect they will have a huge problem showing coercion pre-trial.

 

[sunshineray]

In their episode this week, Murder Sheet appeared to suggest that the confession(s) to the Warden might be written in letter(s) to him. I recall them hinting in that direction when they reported from the 2023 safe keeping hearing when this all first blew up.

If he has written confessions down, that would obviously be another big problem on top of recorded calls.

As the Judge already found last year that RA had better than average treatment, and the defence made false representations I suspect they will have a huge problem showing coercion pre-trial.

And I believe that's why the D now mentions that RA was mentally in a bad state before his introduction exam for prison life. They say the welcome to prison mental exam was lacking.

 

[girlhasnoname]

No chain of custody documents have been provided to the defense for the bullet:

d. Chain of custody documents related to the bullet purportedly found near the bodies of L.G. and A.W. To date, no such data has been located by the defense or the defense cannot locate that information in spite of requesting said information from the State of Indiana.

But also,

What is the importance of the “sticks, branches, and bark” found at the scene? It wasn’t mentioned in the PCA; IIRC the blood used to draw the alleged “F” on the tree was said to be Libby’s. Is the D implying there was other potential evidence (like DNA?) on sticks, branches, and bark found at the CS? Or are they implying there is no chain of custody for the blood evidence (re: the “F”)? I may have missed something, does anyone know the potential significance of these items? TIA

e. Chain of custody documents related to the sticks, branches and bark found at the scene. To date, no such data has been located by the defense or the defense cannot locate that information in spite of requesting said information from the State of Indiana.

p.8
View attachment 499310

Source:
p.8
MOTION TO COMPEL AND MOTION FOR SANCTIONS
filed by Auger, Baldwin, and Rozzi
Motion to Compel & Request for Sanctions

"To date no such data has been located by Defense or the Defense cannot locate that information..." The Defense says this all the time (and footnotes it too).

That does not mean the information was not provided to the Defense, it could mean they haven't located it. I am confident the bullet was found on Feb 14th when the bodies were recovered, and the only missing Chain of Command accusation is created by conspiracy theorists. The Defense said it only received a certain number of photos of the bullet, so they've obviously received information regarding it. Holeman said in his latest questioning of RA (Oct 26th) that they found the bullet on Feb 14th, 2017 when they found the girls.

Can you point me in the direction of where, if anywhere, there is a proven MSM lack of COC regarding the bullet? I've been stumped by this for such a long time, I'd like to actually see where everyone is coming up with this. B McD doesn't count to me anymore, her integrity is questionable when I used to consider her a decent source. Thanks.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

And I believe that's why the D now mentions that RA was mentally in a bad state before his introduction exam for prison life. They say the welcome to prison mental exam was lacking.

Well the Defense themselves stated RA was acclimating as well as any else, was affable, helpful, engaged during the times they met with him him from Nov - April.

Coincidental. to me, that crap hit the fan after the State's Discovery was unleashed, along with RA's confessions eh?

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Yes, I can hear it already.
The D makes a supposition. The P objects. JG sustains.
The P makes a supposition. The D objects. JG overrules.
She’s that predictable.
MOO

I've found Judge Gull to be fair on her rulings, it must be hard to wade through the vortex of chaos that the D claims on a daily basis. If Judge Gull had such blatant bias and prejudice against the D or RA, I believe she would have been replaced by a higher court, but she wasn't (SCOIN).

I hear it differently:
D - Presents totally unfounded and preposterous claims as facts
P - Objects
J - Overrules/Sustains based on the evidence in front of her

The D is that predictable to me.

Just MOO

 

[susiQ]

Well for instance all of the info laid out by the defence came from police investigation of the suspects. So it seems they were investigated for an extended period.

They did not investigate them for an extended period. They dropped that hot potato lickity split. It was Ferency, Murphy and Click that continued, even though no one else from Unified (Oxymoron) Command was interested. It was their determination to go down that path that exposed what wasn’t investigated as it should have been. Even then they were thwarted by UC in not giving them a SW for EF’s phone and home. Remember, this is the guy who tried to give his sister a blue jacket a day after the murders. Thankfully, they did continue their investigation and those actors have been exposed. These three were working for the FBI’s Terrorism Taskforce, iirc. Additionally, UC did not follow up on Mr. Boucher in Georgia either even though Holeman touted that the FBI was at their disposal since they could not travel all over the place. Well, they didn’t bother using them to retrieve what Boucher had either. So, the D investigators when down there to get it.

These “investigators” had how many years to follow up on these tips?? I can’t wait to see what all has been presented to the D since they were put on this case over an above the mountains of discovery they are wading through. I’m sure there were many, just like EF’s sister MJ, that LE ignored repeatedly, but she did not give up. Perhaps after learning of RA’s arrest they started sending tips to the Defence .

All MOO

 

[vinayd]

Well since there's an entire power point slide show on EF I venture to say he was thoroughly investigated.
Adobe Acrobat

 

[nadia90]

Or the State wants the Defense to list specifics instead of waving a magic wand over 'all the statements' made by RA. I think that is good lawyering for NMcL even though a lot here think he is incompetent.

I believe the State has the solid goods on RA, and the D know's their time is running out. They're throwing every possible Motion against the wall to see what sticks. I'm not suggesting Judge Gull will deny all of these Motions, but I'd bet at least more than half, and rightly so.

ALL JMO

Yes, spot on

 

[susiQ]

Well since there's an entire power point slide show on EF I venture to say he was thoroughly investigated.
Adobe Acrobat

View attachment 499431

By whom? Unified Command or Joint Terrorism Task Force being Click, Ferency and Murphy? Dollars to donuts it was not done by UC. MOO It appears from what you attached that since the D coming back onto the case, that presentation is awol. Oh gee, when the predictable becomes absolutely ridiculous. How many things can they lose, or should I say hide?
JMHO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I was thinking mostly about trying to get every piece of evidence ruled inadmissible.

This scenario played in my mind this morning:

The Defense - "RA our beloved, pauper client is 110% innocent, whom we've staked our reputation on, and any chance of cashing in after it is all said and done. This is a total frame job created and conspired to by incompetent LE, ISP, FBI and really the work of scary, ritual sacrificing Odins".

"There is absolutely no DNA, no electronic information, NOTHING connecting him to Abby & Libby or their murders. RA was only at the trails from 12-1:30 pm. He is absolutely innocent beyond ANY doubt, we aren't worried one tiny bit but..."

"Your Honor, please do us a solid and toss any and all information the State has against RA refuting this, ie: recording made by the victim herself of BG (who=Ra=Killer), witness testimony, the SW, RA's own many confessions, etc. It's all an elaborate plan created by LE and agents with an agenda to frame a completely innocent man for no reason and it's making us really mad."

Thanks, R&B

EBM: Spelling

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Well the Defense themselves stated RA was acclimating as well as any else, was affable, helpful, engaged during the times they met with him him from Nov - April.

Coincidental. to me, that crap hit the fan after the State's Discovery was unleashed, along with RA's confessions eh?

MOO

They seem to state such contrary things regarding RA. I'd say this defense looks very disorganized at best...at worst, well let's just say JG mentioned the worse it could be with the description, grossly negligent. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

They did not investigate them for an extended period. They dropped that hot potato lickity split. It was Ferency, Murphy and Click that continued, even though no one else from Unified (Oxymoron) Command was interested. It was their determination to go down that path that exposed what wasn’t investigated as it should have been. Even then they were thwarted by UC in not giving them a SW for EF’s phone and home. Remember, this is the guy who tried to give his sister a blue jacket a day after the murders. Thankfully, they did continue their investigation and those actors have been exposed. These three were working for the FBI’s Terrorism Taskforce, iirc. Additionally, UC did not follow up on Mr. Boucher in Georgia either even though Holeman touted that the FBI was at their disposal since they could not travel all over the place. Well, they didn’t bother using them to retrieve what Boucher had either. So, the D investigators when down there to get it.

These “investigators” had how many years to follow up on these tips?? I can’t wait to see what all has been presented to the D since they were put on this case over an above the mountains of discovery they are wading through. I’m sure there were many, just like EF’s sister MJ, that LE ignored repeatedly, but she did not give up. Perhaps after learning of RA’s arrest they started sending tips to the Defence .

All MOO

Where is the proof that LE never cleared these people? One officer who ran the interview tech in Rushville PD? And now with the Brady-Giglio situation, that one officer may not even be fit to testify. Where is the proof that those men were not looked into satisfactorily to determine if they were or were not involved in Abby and Libby's murders?

 

[FrostedGlass]

In their episode this week, Murder Sheet appeared to suggest that the confession(s) to the Warden might be written in letter(s) to him. I recall them hinting in that direction when they reported from the 2023 safe keeping hearing when this all first blew up.

If he has written confessions down, that would obviously be another big problem on top of recorded calls.

As the Judge already found last year that RA had better than average treatment, and the defence made false representations I suspect they will have a huge problem showing coercion pre-trial.

Did MS say how they arrived at the suggestion of a written confession?

The judge found RA got better treatment than convicted criminals did. Big Difference.
MOO
I'd also remind folks that, just because the judge chose to believe the people she did, does not automatically make the D's liars. Too bad she didn't make a surprise visit in the early days of his incarceration in Westville.

 

[vinayd]

 

[sunshineray]

Did MS say how they arrived at the suggestion of a written confession?

The judge found RA got better treatment than convicted criminals did. Big Difference.
MOO
I'd also remind folks that, just because the judge chose to believe the people she did, does not automatically make the D's liars. Too bad she didn't make a surprise visit in the early days of his incarceration in Westville.

Just because the D says the conditions were that of a POW doesn't make it the truth. In fact it sounds like hyperbole to me. The D, IMO, do that a lot.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Did MS say how they arrived at the suggestion of a written confession?

The judge found RA got better treatment than convicted criminals did. Big Difference.
MOO
I'd also remind folks that, just because the judge chose to believe the people she did, does not automatically make the D's liars. Too bad she didn't make a surprise visit in the early days of his incarceration in Westville.

My understanding is the Court and the Department of Corrections do not operate simultaneously. It would not be Judge Gull's position to inspect the DOC.

It would be the D Team to bring evidence of any wrong doing to the Court and the DOC to address or reply to those allegations.

@AugustWest can you chime in on this?

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

The D is asking for the following sanctions:

Adobe Acrobat

c. That the State of Indiana be sanctioned for its discovery violations in the following way:

i. This Court will instruct the jury that the prosecution received certain evidence that tended to exonerate the defendant on May 1, 2023 but failed to turn over that evidence for over 4 months and that said failure to timely produce that evidence to the defense was a violation of the rules.

ii. Permit the defense to play any video that was belatedly produced without objection from the State of Indiana.

iii. Prevent the prosecution from rebutting the evidence that Todd Click provided to the prosecution on May 1, 2023.

iv. Prevent the prosecution from using any data or information extracted from Liberty German’s phone in its evidentiary presentation.

d. That the prosecutor be ordered to explain in written form his reasons for delaying turning over the Todd Click evidence as detailed in paragraph 38 above; the reasons why he sent an email that is filled with false statements and that misled the defense; and the reasons he failed to turn over a massive amount of evidence, but then chose to turn that evidence to the defense between September 8, 2023 and October 6, 2023 just 4 days before requesting the Court to dismiss defense counsel from the case. This request is made for several reasons, but especially to preserve the record.

What's this? A Holiday list? Is Santa coming to town early?