Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[leighaking98]

After more than seven years of twists and turns, one thing I can say with absolute certainty:
Abby & Libby will never be forgotten

I think about this case often. I originally heard about it on Kendall Rae's True Crime YouTube page. Kendall Rae covered Abby and Libby's case and interviewed Libby's older sister. We need to continue advocating for the victims of violent crimes and their families. Advocating and spreading awareness keeps their memory alive. RIP Abby and Libby.

 

[vinayd]

What's this? A Holiday list? Is Santa coming to town early?

Well if he's making a list and checking it twice he might be the one who found the DD tip

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Something I think about if RA is not the killer.

He was walking the trail on a nice day. Just minding his business and later he learns that 2 girls are brutally murdered there, while he was there. If it isn't him, then he just missed seeing a killer or maybe he did see a killer. He might have been able to save them or help or see something. Did he go over this day in his head repeatedly. Did he talk to his wife about it over and over trying to remember any little detail that could help. He had a daughter after all.. he's a father to a girl. Did he ever think wow it could be my daughter and I'd want everyone to help in every way. Did he feel those feelings we often do when we think we could have prevented something "if only"...

Did RA say ANYTHING to anyone in his life after talking to that officer. Did he talk about it when he was shooting pool, did he watch the news or keep up with it? I know I sure would because I would feel some other connection to this and it would FREAK ME OUT that I was there when 2 girls were being abducted from a bridge I had just been on at the time I was just there. I mean seriously.. IF (huge if, because I think RA is BG) RA is not the killer, then he literally missed being there and being able to save the girls by like minutes right? I think most would feel guilt or like darn I could have saved them if only.... Did he ever express that to anyone?

OR did he never bring it up. Did anyone else know he was there walking that day? Did he even tell his wife he was there walking that day and that he had went to talk to the conservation officer about it?

Sometimes it's the things we do that is important and sometimes it's the things we don't do or say that seem most interesting. I'd be curious to know if RA ever again after talking to DD told anyone he was there that day walking.

IMO he did bring it up a that he was there that day and so sad he couldn’t do more to prevent it. I do believe he placed himself there that day to others.

Unfortunately I don’t think people in charge of the investigation looked beneath the surface statements. I do believe that were distracted at first by a possible internet catfishing scenario and a local suspect didn’t align with that theory.
JMO

If this goes to trial in three weeks, I'll eat a baby goat.

Amusing (annoying) to watch the Defense sttempt to play both sides of the fiddle -- representing to SCION that RA's only path to a speedy trial is with their reinstatement while maintaining now, as they pound the table hard, that they don't have discovery, don't have organized discovery, haven't actually read through and sorted what they DO have. That's called wanting it both ways.

I imagine they're also looking the world over for an expert that can say eating court documents is a disorder and making confessions is a disease...

But that's JMO.

please don’t. But now you have me wondering. Did RA lose a bet? Eats pound of paper. JMO

Yep with the circus that is already around this case it’s another thing Gull has gotten right.

The less profiteering that the vultures of YouTubers can make off this case the better.

Moo

i agree wholeheartedly. Let the true journalist do their job. With ethic standards in place.

All Moooo

 

[FrostedGlass]

My understanding is the Court and the Department of Corrections do not operate simultaneously. It would not be Judge Gull's position to inspect the DOC.

It would be the D Team to bring evidence of any wrong doing to the Court and the DOC to address or reply to those allegations.

@AugustWest can you chime in on this?

MOO

I should have said "couldn't make a surprise visit." Actually, I don't think surprise visits are allowed under any circumstances.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Just because the D says the conditions were that of a POW doesn't make it the truth. In fact it sounds like hyperbole to me. The D, IMO, do that a lot.

"Hyperbole"

This is from the National Library of Medicine. If anyone can't read it, I'll copy the whole thing and put it behind a spoiler so others don't have to scroll through it. It's long. There are 70 links to reverences at the very bottom of the article.

Public Health and Solitary Confinement in the United States

The history of solitary confinement in the United States stretches from the silent prisons of 200 years ago to today’s supermax prisons, mechanized panopticons that isolate tens of thousands, sometimes for decades. We examined the living conditions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

LIFE IN SOLITARY​

(excerpt)
Living conditions in solitary confinement are physically unhealthy, extremely stressful, and psychologically traumatizing. The typical cell is 60 to 80 square feet, with a cot, a toilet, a sink, a narrow slit for a window, and sometimes a small molded desk bolted to the wall. In many facilities, cells have a steel door with a small slot for delivering meals.

Inmates have little exposure to natural sunlight; bright fluorescent lights illuminate each cell, often through the night, disrupting natural sleep cycles and circadian rhythms. Some solitary confinement units are nearly silent except for sudden outbursts; others subject prisoners to an incessant cacophony of clanking metal doors, jingling keys, booted footsteps, and distressed voices reverberating off thick walls. In more modern units, electronic doors, search cameras, and intercoms create a mechanized environment that minimizes face-to-face interaction. Prisoners are typically taken out of their cells for only 1 hour on weekdays for recreation or a shower, or, in some systems, once a week for 5 hours. Before being moved from their cells, prisoners are cuffed and often shackled at the waist and placed in leg irons. Recreation usually occurs in either an open cage outdoors or an indoor area, sometimes with an open, barred top. Some prisons offer group therapy sessions, but, in many facilities, participants are chained to metal chairs that are mounted to the floor of a cage.

Many people live in these conditions for years without the opportunity to engage in the types of human interaction, treatment, job training, and educational experiences that would help them adjust when reentering the general prison population or society.23–27 In the federal system and in at least 19 states, policies permit locking people into solitary confinement indefinitely.28

 

[mrjitty]

Did MS say how they arrived at the suggestion of a written confession?

The judge found RA got better treatment than convicted criminals did. Big Difference.
MOO
I'd also remind folks that, just because the judge chose to believe the people she did, does not automatically make the D's liars. Too bad she didn't make a surprise visit in the early days of his incarceration in Westville.

At the end of the day, those factual findings are on the record.

She did not merely prefer the evidence of one side to the other. She found they tried to mislead her. When you consider how Baldwin also misled her in chambers, it at least should be clear that now when the rubber hits the road, that conduct is bad for RA.

I agree with you more broadly that the prison conditions are outrageous - but unfortunately that is what the voters of the State of Indiana have gone for down the years - so it is not the fault of the Judge.

 

[layer]

I agree with you more broadly that the prison conditions are outrageous - but unfortunately that is what the voters of the State of Indiana have gone for down the years - so it is not the fault of the Judge.

Just curious what happens if a state decides that prohihibions on cruel and unusual punishment is nonsense and the mistreatment of suspects awaiting trial is cool beans. The judge is completely unresponsible for the securing of any constitutional rights of defendents appearing before them?

 

[AugustWest]

My understanding is the Court and the Department of Corrections do not operate simultaneously. It would not be Judge Gull's position to inspect the DOC.

It would be the D Team to bring evidence of any wrong doing to the Court and the DOC to address or reply to those allegations.

@AugustWest can you chime in on this?

MOO

@girlhasnoname @FrostedGlass

Yes, the court and DOC are completely separate. I'm fairly certain that FrostedGlass was speaking in jest though.

 

[sunshineray]

"Hyperbole"

This is from the National Library of Medicine. If anyone can't read it, I'll copy the whole thing and put it behind a spoiler so others don't have to scroll through it. It's long. There are 70 links to reverences at the very bottom of the article.

Public Health and Solitary Confinement in the United States

The history of solitary confinement in the United States stretches from the silent prisons of 200 years ago to today’s supermax prisons, mechanized panopticons that isolate tens of thousands, sometimes for decades. We examined the living conditions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

LIFE IN SOLITARY​

(excerpt)
Living conditions in solitary confinement are physically unhealthy, extremely stressful, and psychologically traumatizing. The typical cell is 60 to 80 square feet, with a cot, a toilet, a sink, a narrow slit for a window, and sometimes a small molded desk bolted to the wall. In many facilities, cells have a steel door with a small slot for delivering meals.

Inmates have little exposure to natural sunlight; bright fluorescent lights illuminate each cell, often through the night, disrupting natural sleep cycles and circadian rhythms. Some solitary confinement units are nearly silent except for sudden outbursts; others subject prisoners to an incessant cacophony of clanking metal doors, jingling keys, booted footsteps, and distressed voices reverberating off thick walls. In more modern units, electronic doors, search cameras, and intercoms create a mechanized environment that minimizes face-to-face interaction. Prisoners are typically taken out of their cells for only 1 hour on weekdays for recreation or a shower, or, in some systems, once a week for 5 hours. Before being moved from their cells, prisoners are cuffed and often shackled at the waist and placed in leg irons. Recreation usually occurs in either an open cage outdoors or an indoor area, sometimes with an open, barred top. Some prisons offer group therapy sessions, but, in many facilities, participants are chained to metal chairs that are mounted to the floor of a cage.

Many people live in these conditions for years without the opportunity to engage in the types of human interaction, treatment, job training, and educational experiences that would help them adjust when reentering the general prison population or society.23–27 In the federal system and in at least 19 states, policies permit locking people into solitary confinement indefinitely.28

You can show me all sorts of opinions. What's the end result you're looking for though, to have no prisons or to make prisons country clubs? No of course not. RA being transferred from county jail to a more secure facility was to keep him safe. Keeping him in custody was to keep the community safe. Isn't that what we do with people accused of viscous homicides? We refuse bail to keep the community safe.

The state also has the duty to keep the accused safe, from others but also from self harm. That's why the secure cell and surveillance. Then RA gets transferred out of the "POW" conditions into a new facility with actually better mental healthcare.

Perhaps now there's some other reason that will pop up for people to say, oh for pete's sake just let him out on bail already, for his trial. His, it seems, more that 25 confessions would lead a logical person to believe RA is right where he should be. And yes, I still think RA's defense attorneys and their attorney are full of it, hyperbole that is. AJMO

 

[vinayd]

Click testimony on 3/18 regarding the "goldilocks phone".

March 18, 2024 Motion to Dismiss Hearing.pdf

Pg 8:

Pg 20:



Pg 21:


Pg 22:


Pg 23:

Pg 33:

Pg 54:

Pg 56-57 : Westfall not a suspect

 

[vinayd]

Either way the issues surrounding PW phone have no bearing on this case. For some reason it was spread that it was a kidnapping of a girl. That was proved to be false. Murder Sheet did an episode about this hearing:
Murder Sheet Transcript

 

[AugustWest]

You can show me all sorts of opinions. What's the end result you're looking for though, to have no prisons or to make prisons country clubs? No of course not. RA being transferred from county jail to a more secure facility was to keep him safe. Keeping him in custody was to keep the community safe. Isn't that what we do with people accused of viscous homicides? We refuse bail to keep the community safe.

The state also has the duty to keep the accused safe, from others but also from self harm. That's why the secure cell and surveillance. Then RA gets transferred out of the "POW" conditions into a new facility with actually better mental healthcare.

Perhaps now there's some other reason that will pop up for people to say, oh for pete's sake just let him out on bail already, for his trial. His, it seems, more that 25 confessions would lead a logical person to believe RA is right where he should be. And yes, I still think RA's defense attorneys and their attorney are full of it, hyperbole that is. AJMO

A reason is coming up in about 3 weeks:

Rule 4. Impact of Delay in Criminal Trials...
(B) Defendant in Jail – Motion for Early Trial.
A defendant held in jail on a pending charge may move for an early trial. If such motion is filed, a trial must be commenced no later than seventy calendar days from the date of such motion except as follows:
(1) delays due to congestion of the court calendar or emergency are excluded from the seventy-day calculation;
(2) the defendant who moved for early trial is released from jail before the expiration of the seventy-day period; or
(3) an act of the defendant delays the trial.

If a defendant is held beyond the time limit of this section and moves for dismissal, the criminal charge against the defendant must be dismissed.

See: https://www.in.gov/courts/rules/criminal/#_Toc152240493

This is one of the reasons why I don't think there will be any requests for continuances made by the defense. They are coming up on a deadline for dismissal with prejudice.

 

[layer]

Perhaps now there's some other reason that will pop up for people to say, oh for pete's sake just let him out on bail already, for his trial.

Wow, you hang with a weird crowd. I never heard anyone use bail and RA in the same sentence.

 

[vinayd]

Wow, you hang with a weird crowd. I never heard anyone use bail and RA in the same sentence.

Wasn't the bail set at 20 mil. Don't think anyone will be able to raise that amount.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Wasn't the bail set at 20 mil. Don't think anyone will be able to raise that amount.

AFAIK, bail was never set.


JMO

 

[layer]

Wasn't the bail set at 20 mil. Don't think anyone will be able to raise that amount.

Isn't it 10% for bond. Regardless, who wants RA wandering around their neighborhood until this is resolved?

 

[vinayd]

Isn't it 10% for bond. Regardless, who wants RA wandering around their neighborhood until this is resolved?

Hmm. normally yes but I believe when the charge is murder it's a cash bond. Will have to go look.

ETA: 20 mil
Richard Allen, charged with 2017 Delphi murders, held on $20 million bond.

Think that basically says no bail:



https://www.in.gov/ipdc/files/steuben-local-rules.pdf

 

[vinayd]

Anyone find it strange the D's crowd fundraiser has stalled at 40k. Or am I the only one in everyone's business lol. Wonder if sponsors are starting to have 2nd thoughts.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Anyone find it strange the D's crowd fundraiser has stalled at 40k. Or am I the only one in everyone's business lol. Wonder if sponsors are starting to have 2nd thoughts.

I am more shocked that so many people were willing to donate in all honesty.

I can't fathom donating to the for an accused child killer.

All that I can think about is:
If I was a family member of the accused, my heart would be broken and I would simultaneously be seething.

IMO

Supporting an accused child killer feels like a slap on the face to everyone that loved the girls.

 

[Tricia]

With regard to the sticks. EF stated to his sister that he spit on Abby. Before or after the sticks were placed? Could his DNA be on one of the sticks that was placed on AW? Were these sticks ever submitted for DNA testing?

I still maintain the reason EF and company were NOT pursued, was due to their connection to BH primarily, but also PW. More so with BH due to HIS connection to powerful people. I believe when he made the statement to AH that PW did it and he has connections to powerful people, he was projecting. If he truly believed PW did it, did he reveal that in his “missing” interview only days after the murders? If not, why not? One would think he would want such a heinous killer off the street! JMHO

Hi SusiQ,
Could you please provide a link that shows where you found this comment?
"With regard to the sticks. EF stated to his sister that he spit on Abby"
Forgive me if this has already been provided.
Thank you.
Tricia