Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[girlhasnoname]

I am more shocked that so many people were willing to donate in all honesty.

I can't fathom donating to the for an accused child killer.

All that I can think about is:
If I was a family member of the accused, my heart would be broken and I would simultaneously be seething.

IMO

Supporting an accused child killer feels like a slap on the face to everyone that loved the girls.

Some people are just as convinced of RA's innocence as we are convinced of his guilt. I can respect that. The problem I have with the gimmie money is how they tried to ride the coattails of the families of victims SM tag. Bad, bad, very bad.

I think that alone lost them a lot of people who might have been on the fence. The families of victims are innocent and off limits, period.

MOO

 

[TTF14]

We will never know if those were true confessions because they chose to confine him in such a way that drives sane people insane.

This. Maybe at least one of those "confessions" will contain information that only the killer would know, though. (Something unlike "I shot them in the back.") Hopefully we'll find out.

 

[layer]

What reason would a man instruct 2 teenagers to strip naked??
Do you think that there is NO sexual motivation watching young, terrified teens removing all of their clothing.

I think people confuse a variety of things with sex. To that end, every crime could be motivated by sex. I know for a fact that people get sex, power, control, violence, dominance, and even murder all intertwined, but they are not the same things.
In the end, I don't care why RA did it. Everyone has reasons for the things they do. I just want to know that he did it.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I just don't. In all that time it took to strip, murder, redress, pose, stage... it just seems to me like if sex was the motivator, sex would have happened.

What if the perpetrator was impotent? Or maybe he was 'driven' by the total domination over Abby & Libby. Would that make it any more or less sexual in nature?

Forcing 2 young girls to strip is actually SA all on its own. Rape is about power, not sex.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I think people confuse a variety of things with sex. To that end, every crime could be motivated by sex. I know for a fact that people get sex, power, control, violence, dominance, and even murder all intertwined, but they are not the same things.
In the end, I don't care why RA did it. Everyone has reasons for the things they do. I just want to know that he did it.

This post is so confusing to me.

2 girls, young teens, forced to undress by their captor.

A sock and underwear the only clothing pieces missing from the crime scene.

One girl left nude, another sloppily redressed in her friends clothing...

What other motive would you believe?

I would like to know.

I also hope that people understand that actual penetration need NOT occur to make a situation sexual assault.

Clearly SA happened.


AJMO

 

[layer]

Some people are just as convinced of RA's innocence as we are convinced of his guilt.

Do you really believe that? I wonder what convinced them. I have never heard anyone say that, besides his lawyers. I wish they would post here so I can ask them.

 

[snarast]

This post is so confusing to me.

2 girls, young teens, forced to undress by their captor.

A sock and underwear the only clothing pieces missing from the crime scene.

One girl left nude, another sloppily redressed in her friends clothing...

What other motive would you believe?

I would like to know.

I also hope that people understand that actual penetration need NOT occur to make a situation sexual assault.

Clearly SA happened.


AJMO

Missing

Do you really believe that? I wonder what convinced them. I have never heard anyone say that, besides his lawyers. I wish they would post here so I can ask them.

I’m not convinced of anything except the defense is acting strangely or idiotically.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think people confuse a variety of things with sex. To that end, every crime could be motivated by sex. I know for a fact that people get sex, power, control, violence, dominance, and even murder all intertwined, but they are not the same things.
In the end, I don't care why RA did it. Everyone has reasons for the things they do. I just want to know that he did it.

We will likely never know the true reason RA did what he did. Very seldom do these types of offenders take responsibility of their actions or the reason why.

They don't want to feel the shame or bring shame on their loved ones (just look how berserk RA went off on Holeman during that last Oct 26th interview about $%# with his wife), so they minimize that component of it, even if they admit to the actual murder.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you really believe that? I wonder what convinced them. I have never heard anyone say that, besides his lawyers. I wish they would post here so I can ask them.

I absolutely believe there are people who think RA is innocent and has been framed by LE.

Some do post here but the majority post on other less favorable SM sites.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

Hi SusiQ,
Could you please provide a link that shows where you found this comment?
"With regard to the sticks. EF stated to his sister that he spit on Abby"
Forgive me if this has already been provided.
Thank you.
Tricia

Well, I needed to refresh my memory on a couple of things. Old brain syndrome I guess . I was mistaken about the spit. EF made that comment to his sister JM and only said, he spit on “one of the girls.” He did not say it was Abby. He told his other sister, MJ, that Abby was a “smart a$$ and a troublemaker.” He also commented to Murphy, following LE taking a mouth swab for DNA, that if they found his spit on one of the girls, he could explain it. My sincere apologies for the confusion.

All found in the FM pgs 90-93.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

 

[girlhasnoname]

Not sex in my book, but different strokes. There is definitely a voyeuristic aspect to many of those elements - posing, stripping, redressing. The lack of signs of SA would even fit with that. Add in some following, watching, peeping, maybe got caught, maybe thought he'd teach them a lesson, show them what it feels like to be ashamed, maybe got carried away. Ugh...
Don't look too closely into the abyss

Don't look layer, it's not pretty.

 

[Ursamajr]

This post is so confusing to me.

2 girls, young teens, forced to undress by their captor.

A sock and underwear the only clothing pieces missing from the crime scene.

One girl left nude, another sloppily redressed in her friends clothing...

What other motive would you believe?

I would like to know.

I also hope that people understand that actual penetration need NOT occur to make a situation sexual assault.

Clearly SA happened.


AJMO

Jumping in to this just to say, to some perpetrators it's ultimately about power.
To me and you and so many others, we see it as sexual - because it is. It's absolutely sexual assault to us but that doesn't mean the perp didn't do it to wield power and control over their victim. The ultimate violation you can do to someone.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Jumping in to this just to say, to some perpetrators it's ultimately about power.
To me and you and so many others, we see it as sexual - because it is. It's absolutely sexual assault to us but that doesn't mean the perp didn't do it to wield power and control over their victim. The ultimate violation you can do to someone.

I am in total agreement .
Sexual Assault stems from the need to control someone else.

Rape and SA are acts of VIOLENCE and are not about sex.

 

[vinayd]

Well, I needed to refresh my memory on a couple of things. Old brain syndrome I guess . I was mistaken about the spit. EF made that comment to his sister JM and only said, he spit on “one of the girls.” He did not say it was Abby. He told his other sister, MJ, that Abby was a “smart a$$ and a troublemaker.” He also commented to Murphy, following LE taking a mouth swab for DNA, that if they found his spit on one of the girls, he could explain it. My sincere apologies for the confusion.

All found in the FM pgs 90-93.

FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf | PDF Host

PDF Host read free online - FINAL DRAFT - 9.17 at 6.30 pm - Delphi Franks brief.pdf - ANDREW J. BALDWIN

pdfhost.io

Not confusing it's still been stated that there was "spit" mentioned. I have the belief that EF in his mental state was interrogated and likely shouldn't have been. I think after he was interrogated he probably was scared and mentioned the spit, this was after all when he was being dropped off after an interview. I feel for him.

I want to know when he asked his sister to take his jacket. Was this after he had been interrogated? Let's say it was after. During interrogation he may have been shown a picture of BG or asked about the blue coat. When he returns home he is now telling his sister about the coat. I guess I'm interested in the timeline of him making these statements.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This. Maybe at least one of those "confessions" will contain information that only the killer would know, though. (Something unlike "I shot them in the back.") Hopefully we'll find out.

I was leaning heavily on the confession thing until we learned the the Westville officials had that load of his discovery for a number of days. Now I'm not sure what information would seal the deal for me.

If someone confessed they never crossed the creek; that they took the girls down via the north side, then I might buy that. Hmmm. what else?

I'm still convinced there is something about the blue jacket that will be solid. I've wondered if BG tore it going down the hill and they have a scrap of material or at least evidence of a tear. In one of the LE interviews, he talks about all the "sticker bushes" in that area.

 

[TTF14]

I was leaning heavily on the confession thing until we learned the the Westville officials had that load of his discovery for a number of days. Now I'm not sure what information would seal the deal for me.

If someone confessed they never crossed the creek; that they took the girls down via the north side, then I might buy that. Hmmm. what else?

I'm still convinced there is something about the blue jacket that will be solid. I've wondered if BG tore it going down the hill and they have a scrap of material or at least evidence of a tear. In one of the LE interviews, he talks about all the "sticker bushes" in that area.

I think I missed that (or forgot)! (The part I bolded)

And I agree with you that nobody crossed that creek. Except later in a canoe during the search.

IMO MOO

 

[vinayd]

I can see them not crossing the creek I think early videos of folks walking the area are helpful. You can find them on YouTube.

And about Westerville having the discovery a number of days before giving to him. Any idea how many days? I think this is normal. Everything that comes into a prison is read. And honestly sometimes COs take time doing their job.

 

[susane7]

Criminal conspiracies obviously exist but for me the dividing line between an actual criminal conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is evidence.

Usually, I hate conspiracy theories but I admit that criminal conspiracies exist but, normally, are 2,3,4,5, people (Robert Wone case, Veronica Butler and Jilian Kelley case, etc). For this conspiracy we have 5 odinists who doesn't turn against other, from what we know witnesses only saw 1 guy, the 5 odinists left the crime scene without them or their cars being caught in the cameras, or by witnesses, without multipe footprints, DNA, etc (it is more difficult to not leave ADN and the other things that I mentioned if there are multiple perpetrators than just one).

Then I read in another site the agencies that need to be involved for the conspiracy to protect the "odinists" for some reason: depending who is spinning the conspiracy tale is something like: Delphi police, Carroll County Sheriff, various other cooperating neighboring local/county LE, ISP and ISP post units, state prison system, federal LE (FBI and US Marshals Service at a minimum, add various Violent Crimes Task Forces based in Indiana), sometimes Carroll County prosecutor is included, original recused Carroll County judge and special appointed Allen County Judge Fran Gull, the Allen County bailiffs (the YouTuber kerfuffle), the Carroll County clerk’s office, state conservation officers, the former federal prison guard who attacked the federal office building, the state Attorney General and maybe the Indiana Supreme Court (they kept the defense attorneys but also kept Judge Gull).

So more than 100, 200, 300 people involved in this huge conspiracy. And this agencies choosed a middle age guy married, with a daugther, and with no criminal record to be a "scapegoat" when they investigated so many sexual offenders who would better "scapegoats", etc.. I don't believe it at all.

 

[vinayd]

I just wonder where are all these people being briefed? I mean they need instructions and orders to carry out the conspiracy right? yea no conspiracy here!

 

[FrostedGlass]

I think I missed that (or forgot)! (The part I bolded)

And I agree with you that nobody crossed that creek. Except later in a canoe during the search.

IMO MOO

I had to go hunting for the part you bolded; it's in the link below but I don't have the page number handy.
On pg 5, is the Answer to the Emergency Motion to Modify; they state they did hang on to the paperwork; but this doc does not state the number of pages or days.
******
From the 4/5/2023 Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping Order (hearing was in June, JG's denial was in July):

i. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd, 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen;

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf