Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

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I had to go hunting for the part you bolded; it's in the link below but I don't have the page number handy.
On pg 5, is the Answer to the Emergency Motion to Modify; they state they did hang on to the paperwork; but this doc does not state the number of pages or days.
******
From the 4/5/2023 Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping Order (hearing was in June, JG's denial was in July):

i. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's copperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3rd, 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen;
Thanks! So 6 business days. Guess we need to see what the rule is to deliver inmate mail. And 1000s of pages may have needed to be read first, but now wondering if they would read discovery. Maybe not.
 
Mail and Packages
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https://www.in.gov/idoc/files/02-01-101_Offender_Personal_Property_4-1-2016.pdf

XVIII. OFFENDER LEGAL MATERIALS (See Operational Procedure):An offender may keep correspondence and legal materials. Offenders who have excess legal materials that cannot fit into the offender’s personal property storage container/area shall have the excess legal materials stored and maintained in a secure area designated by the Superintendent. The offender and a staff person shall inventory and pack legal materials in the additional storage containers/areas. The facility may use cardboard boxes to store the additional legal material that is not kept in the offender’s living area. The offender shall sign a receipt for the additional storage box(es). A legible copy of this receipt shall be placed in the container in the presence of the staff person and the offender. A legible copy of this inventory shall be maintained by the staff person in charge of the storage area and the original shall be given to the offender.

Once the inventory is complete, the box(es) shall be sealed and marked with the offender’s name and DOC number. The box(es) shall be identified as “Excess Legal Material.” In order to gain access to this material, the offender shall be required to submit a written request to the staff person designated by the Superintendent. The offender is to give this notice seven (7) days prior to the desired review date. In those cases where the offender has a verified court date, deadline, or a statute of limitations deadline, the offender shall note such on the request and the facility shall make every effort to provide the requested access within twenty-four (24) hours of receipt of the request. An offender shall be allowed to access any excess legal materials with the following conditions.
A. The offender shall retrieve and return to his/her living area with no more material than will fit into the personal property area in his/her living area.
B. Unless the offender has a verified court, statutory, or statute of limitations deadline, or other verified emergency, the offender shall be allowed access to the excess legal materials no more than once per week. Whenever an offender is granted access to the excess legal materials, staff assisting in the access shall document such on State Form 4876, “INVENTORY OF OFFENDER PERSONAL PROPERTY.” This documentation shall include the offender’s name and DOC number, the date of the request for access, the date of the approval or denial of access, and if denied, the reason for the denial. In addition, the inventory of the excess legal materials shall be updated each time the offender accesses this material. The staff person shall ensure that any material that is added to or removed from the excess legal materials is inventoried and documented on State Form 4876. A completed State Form4876 shall be provided to the offender and a legible copy placed in the offender’s facility packet. Operational procedures shall indicate the manner in which excess legal materials are to be stored and the manner in which the offender may access these legal records.
 
Thanks! So 6 business days. Guess we need to see what the rule is to deliver inmate mail. And 1000s of pages may have needed to be read first, but now wondering if they would read discovery. Maybe not.
I don't think they were allowed to read discovery but I'm concerned that they may have.
How long do you think it would take a person to read a thousand pages?
 
Thanks! So 6 business days. Guess we need to see what the rule is to deliver inmate mail. And 1000s of pages may have needed to be read first, but now wondering if they would read discovery. Maybe not.
There was a discussion on this at the time, I wish I could locate it exactly. There was something to do with R or B not being able to drive it to Washburn?? I remember making a comment about why they didn't use a courier service then?

Someone here will remember, my brain cells are fried. LOL

JMO
 
There was a discussion on this at the time, I wish I could locate it exactly. There was something to do with R or B not being able to drive it to Washburn?? I remember making a comment about why they didn't use a courier service then?

Someone here will remember, my brain cells are fried. LOL

JMO
if you were searching for "Washburn," you wouldn't find anything, It's Westville. :)
 
Do you really believe that? I wonder what convinced them. I have never heard anyone say that, besides his lawyers. I wish they would post here so I can ask them.
Actually, @girlhasnoname has a point. Although I am not fully convinced he had nothing to do with it, I’m definitely leaning that way, heavily! I absolutely don’t believe that he put the knife to those poor girls. I freely admit how I feel about this case. I’d say more, if I could :). There is nothing I’ve seen that convinces me of his guilt.

OTOH, that does not mean I could not be persuaded to change my mind during a trial, as I don’t know, what I don’t know. However, I want to see a fair trial, with a fair judge presiding. I haven’t seen her “fairness” yet, but again, I hope she does better during the trial phase. She could have won some of my respect had she had RA transferred to a jail. I lost respect when she disqualified B & R, and when she did not move him as asked for. I felt that was a fair request and she failed the test. IMO

The case is already a complete train wreck, IMHO, and screaming “appeals” should he be found guilty. What a tragedy to have to do this all over again. :(
 
There was a discussion on this at the time, I wish I could locate it exactly. There was something to do with R or B not being able to drive it to Washburn?? I remember making a comment about why they didn't use a courier service then?

Someone here will remember, my brain cells are fried. LOL

JMO
Yes an attorney would normally hand deliver the discovery. At least in Ohio that's the case. So if it was mailed then yes might be a bit of a delay. And I kind of remember this but I'm going to look.
 
Not confusing it's still been stated that there was "spit" mentioned. I have the belief that EF in his mental state was interrogated and likely shouldn't have been. I think after he was interrogated he probably was scared and mentioned the spit, this was after all when he was being dropped off after an interview. I feel for him.

I want to know when he asked his sister to take his jacket. Was this after he had been interrogated? Let's say it was after. During interrogation he may have been shown a picture of BG or asked about the blue coat. When he returns home he is now telling his sister about the coat. I guess I'm interested in the timeline of him making these statements.
It was on Feb.14 2017 he offered a blue jacket to his sister MJ. FM pg 91.

“On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017, Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent. He was talking about having a “brother” (even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker. She said Elvis tried to give her (Mary Jacobs) a blue jacket. She told him that she had her own jacket”
 
Yes an attorney would normally hand deliver the discovery. At least in Ohio that's the case. So if it was mailed then yes might be a bit of a delay. And I kind of remember this but I'm going to look.
I believe it was dropped off with no instructions on March 24th. I believe officials at Westville made several attempts to reach RA’s attorneys to see if they wanted RA to review without his counsel and they never responded. IMO
So my logical mind leads me to believe any confessions during that time by RA were not tainted by discovery material.
MOO
 
It was on Feb.14 2017 he offered a blue jacket to his sister MJ. FM pg 91.

“On page 1 of the Odin report, Mary Jacobs told law enforcement that on February 14, 2017, Elvis was rambling, hyper and borderline incoherent. He was talking about having a “brother” (even though Elvis had no male siblings) and was now part of a “gang.” Elvis told Mary that he had been on a bridge with two girls that were killed. Elvis told her that someone named Abigail was a pain in the *advertiser censored* and a troublemaker. She said Elvis tried to give her (Mary Jacobs) a blue jacket. She told him that she had her own jacket”
Well. He made the statement on 2/14 2017. Next paragraph makes me feel this is another instance of someone inserting themselves. "After she put two and two together".

After Elvis made these statements to his sister, Mary Jacobs, she later became aware of the Delphi murders and put two and two together. Sometime 2-3 weeks after Elvis made the statements, Mary Jacobs and her husband (Troy) drove to Delphi. While in Delphi, Mary Jacobs talked to law enforcement about the things Elvis had told her on February 14, 2017, but “due to the mass amount of tips that were generated, her information may have been overlooked.
 
Well. He made the statement on 2/14 2017. Next paragraph makes me feel this is another instance of someone inserting themselves. "After she put two and two together".

After Elvis made these statements to his sister, Mary Jacobs, she later became aware of the Delphi murders and put two and two together. Sometime 2-3 weeks after Elvis made the statements, Mary Jacobs and her husband (Troy) drove to Delphi. While in Delphi, Mary Jacobs talked to law enforcement about the things Elvis had told her on February 14, 2017, but “due to the mass amount of tips that were generated, her information may have been overlooked.

I'm not following....you think Mary Jacobs was inserting herself? Even though the information her brother told her so closely matches the crime?

Or do you mean you think Mary Jacobs was telling a tall tale and her brother never said those things to her?
 
I'm not following....you think Mary Jacobs was inserting herself? Even though the information her brother told her so closely matches the crime?

Or do you mean you think Mary Jacobs was telling a tall tale and her brother never said those things to her?


Everything that MJ said is heresay.

Let's not forget about the reward money potentially being a motivator for twisting certain things.


EBM, because obviously,MJ is not heresay. My mistake.

JMO
 
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Found this document dated 3/15/21
Indiana DOC manual for policy & procedures: Offender Correspondence. It details the procedure and reasons for possible delays in delivering legal correspondance.

BBM

pg 3

LEGAL CORRESPONDENCE: Correspondence mailed directly from or to a court, a judge, or an attorney, whether it is the attorney in a criminal or civil action involving the offender, including opposing counsel, and which has been identified as legal mail. All correspondence marked as legal mail shall be verified by mail room staff by direct contact with the sender.

pg 7
Offenders shall be allowed unrestricted access to legal representatives and courts through the mail. Only that mail to or from an offender which is clearly identified as legal mail shall be treated as such. It is the responsibility of the sender to indicate that the correspondence is legal mail.
pg 8
If the item is legal mail or privileged correspondence, the facilities shall adhere tot he following procedure:
A. Staff shall inspect the incoming Legal Mail or Privileged Correspondence by making a visual inspection of the outside of the mail. If anything appears unusual or suspicious, staff shall confiscate the item in accordance with this policy and administrative procedure and submit the envelope to the Office of Investigations and Intelligence for further investigation
B. If the incoming mail passes visual inspection, staff shall confirm the address on the envelope. The address must be an actual physical location and staff shall make contact with the attorney’s office or government office listed on the envelope. If contact cannot be made within a reasonable amount of time(twenty-four [24] hours), Mail Room staff shall inform the offender of the delay in correspondence
C. If, after reasonable efforts, contact and address location cannot be confirmed with the attorney or attorney’s office or someone from the listed government office, the incoming mail shall be properly confiscated and documented, and submitted to the Office of Investigations and Intelligence for further investigation
D. If contact and confirmation with the attorney or attorney’s office or government office is made, and the contents verified, the incoming mail may be released to the offender
E. Legal mail or privileged correspondence shall not be opened by the Mail Room staff. If there are concerns regarding contents of the mail, the correspondence shall be immediately properly confiscated and submitted to the Office of Investigations and Intelligence.
F. Staff shall inspect any legal mail or privileged correspondence returned to the facility from the Post Office. If a visual inspection of the mail does not indicate anything unusual or suspicious (e.g., when the returned item is noted on facility logs of outgoing mail), the mail shall be treated as incoming Legal mail or privileged correspondence and opened in the presence of the offender only to check for contraband/prohibited property.If no contraband/prohibited property is found, it shall be given to the offender.

pg 9
Several facilities will be participating in pilot programs allowing for the copying of incoming privileged and legal mail. Each participating facility shall use a Facility Directive for all protocols relating to copying legal and privileged mail. The Facility Directive shall be forwarded to the Department Policy Manager for retention and approval through Legal Services

NOTE: I can't find any information on which facilities are participating in this program.

pg 17-18
Incoming correspondence shall be delivered to offenders without unnecessarydelay. With the exception of weekends, holidays and emergencies declared by theSuperintendent in accordance with Policy 02-03-102, “Emergency Response Operations,” incoming and outgoing offender correspondence is to be held no more than 48 hours for letters and 72 hours for publications or packages. Once correspondence has been given to an offender, the correspondence becomes personal property subject to Policy and Administrative Procedure 02-01-101,"Offender Personal Property." Postage due mail shall not be accepted.

In order to ensure the prompt delivery of correspondence, the facilities shall advise offenders that incoming correspondence should have the offender's name, as it appears on the offender's commitment and the offender's identification number, as well as the facility's name and address, as a part of the address. Offenders are to be encouraged to request that persons sending them correspondence include the housing assignment; however, correspondence shall not be delayed in its delivery simply because the housing unit is not included in the address. It shall be the offender's responsibility to ensure that all persons writing to the offender include this information in the address of all incoming correspondence. If the offender's name, identification number, or housing unit is not included in the address on incoming correspondence, the facility shall make a reasonable attempt to deliver the correspondence in as timely a manner as possible. However, the offender shall be made aware that in such cases there will most likely be a delay in the delivery of the correspondence and, if the facility cannot adequately determine the identity of the offender, the correspondence shall be returned to the sender
 
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I'm not following....you think Mary Jacobs was inserting herself? Even though the information her brother told her so closely matches the crime?

Or do you mean you think Mary Jacobs was telling a tall tale and her brother never said those things to her?
Yes from another jurisdiction and 1.5 hours away. Not saying that's a far drive or that he wasn't there (as in maybe near the City b/c he was not near the Bridge). Although I thought his alibi checked out. So yes even if her brother made false confessions (he can but RA can't?).. I think he could have said those things. I also think his sister could have embellished. She could have saw the news like we all did then went back to her convo with Elvis and thought. I gotta tip him in. I'm sure it was a hard decision. But lots of people did just that from miles and miles away. They were sure their suspect was thee suspect.
 
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