Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

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Megnut said:
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I wonder if RAspeak was ever in the dialect of gaslighting.

*MOO* let's say that RA worked through it in his head. Knows he was seen by the group of juveniles, decides to get out in front of that, speaks with DD.

LE releases the video clip.

Let's say his wife DOES see a resemblance.... but RA gets out in front of that too. Tells her he spoke to LE, overstates the weight of that interaction, emphasizes how uber helpful he was, helping them lock down the timeline for example... would a GUILTY person do that? Ask BMorphew who voluntarily interviewed for 3 30hrs because, in his words, "a guilty person wouldn't do that". RA presenting himself as active, helpful, practically sporting sn honorary LE sticker badge, would go a long way IMO toward assuaging any nagging suspicion. Maybe that was all it took to give KA the layer of trust/relief that carried her through the years, believing very much that LE had spoken to him at length and, if they had no doubts, she needn't nurse any either. Could be the very same reasoning he used in retaining the jacket, the gun, the vehicle, the beard/stubble. It'd look suss to lose any of them so he worked them, that they would cement the not-guiltiness he wanted to project.

Of note, I think most people assume that a guilty person would... act guilty. Slink, dodge, roll. Betting MY money, RA banked on his role as husband, father, provider, protector, CVS employee of the week, extending courtesies even to the victims' families. And that's how you hide in plain sight. Social camouflage.

JMO
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Great post!

The only thing I might add is blind trust is a real thing and people (like his wife) can look over the obvious facts (the video looks like him, walks like him, has the same clothes as him...) but somehow she thinks it cannot be him because how could he do such a heinous thing??? and also, he told me that he had already talked to law enforcement EXTENSIVELY.

Unfortunately , people get shocked all the time when they find out their spouse is living a double life. People can be great liars (half truths) and be very believable and get really good at lying.

We all think, there is no way I would be fooled like that if I was his wife. You just never know and you know...the case went cold for so long and both Ron Logan and then KAK? seemed to be the POIs separately for the longest time. That would only support the wife's belief that her husband came forward and was told by LE that he was fully cleared (according to him.) Nobody ever knew that LE had fumbled the investigation of RA and that was the only reason he was off the radar for all those years.
 
Request for help finding what I thought we’ve seen: a list of the P’s witnesses they plan to call at RA’s trial. In searching, all I’m finding is related to contempt and other tangential cases (trying not to say sideshow cases as I know these are important too) yet frustrated that it’s all I’m finding.
I thought I’d seen KA on the P list and have been curious about that. I realize we don’t know how she will present, if she is on the list but will assert spousal right to not testify, etc., but — anyhoo — I’d like to see that list again if someone can help me. Or set me straight if that is not what we’ve seen. Thanks!
 
Marzipan said:
Request for help finding what I thought we’ve seen: a list of the P’s witnesses they plan to call at RA’s trial. In searching, all I’m finding is related to contempt and other tangential cases (trying not to say sideshow cases as I know these are important too) yet frustrated that it’s all I’m finding.
I thought I’d seen KA on the P list and have been curious about that. I realize we don’t know how she will present, if she is on the list but will assert spousal right to not testify, etc., but — anyhoo — I’d like to see that list again if someone can help me. Or set me straight if that is not what we’ve seen. Thanks!
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I've been looking too because I remember seeing something. Maybe we are thinking the photos Woodhouse released of the thumb drive? If so that was discovery but did have a lot of names on it.
I believe both the D and P have all their witness list under seal. ETA a screenshot from the Carroll County meeting where NCML was asking for additional 10k to hire a new assistant and bring the current assistant salary up. He does say the witness list will be massive!

1714136043642.png
 
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sunshineray said:
Well that would have all been relevant if RA's lawyers hadn't withdrawn themselves from representing him in the first place. RA's new lawyers then set the trial date with the court for Oct 2024. After AB&BR changed their minds about withdrawing and brought it up with SCOIN, being reinstated, RA's did not file speedy trial until just recently. It was their prerogative, their decision not to have done so even much earlier, in 2023. Maybe RA should sue his lawyers for malfeasance/malpractice?
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When to file a speedy trial motion was certainly part of strategy that was discussed with RA. The decision didn't happen in a vacuum and without RA's consent.
 
vinayd said:
Thank you so much!

Perspective... I am doing way better than RA. Wonder what will be on the docket this fine Friday. Can't help to feel it will turn into a plea deal with no trial. In cases where a plea is done I think the evidence will still come out.
Onward march for truth and justice!
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I doubt very much there will be a plea deal. R & B believe he is innocent. They will continue to do their very best to find a way to prove that at trial. How could they live with themselves otherwise?? There’s no out once he makes a deal. No appeal. A plea deal gives him absolutely nothing. Even if they lose this time, there are plenty of attorneys waiting to appeal and they will have lots of grounds to do it. Besides, if Nicky has the goods, why on earth would he even consider offering him a deal? I wouldn’t. AND, I wouldn’t make a plea myself if I were innocent. I would die with my integrity in tact! JMO
 
susiQ said:
I doubt very much there will be a plea deal. R & B believe he is innocent. They will continue to do their very best to find a way to prove that at trial. How could they live with themselves otherwise?? There’s no out once he makes a deal. No appeal. A plea deal gives him absolutely nothing. Even if they lose this time, there are plenty of attorneys waiting to appeal and they will have lots of grounds to do it. Besides, if Nicky has the goods, why on earth would he even consider offering him a deal? I wouldn’t. AND, I wouldn’t make a plea myself if I were innocent. I would die with my integrity in tact! JMO
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I just think as they have peeled back parts of the discovery (finally) they are realizing he did do this. So now they are backtracking and submitting motions to dismiss just about all the evidence. And of course they should as that is their job. I think they will realize it's much better to plea less all the dirty laundry is aired. I think RA is much more focused on his reputation like he said. I don't think he would want that discussed at length in a trial.

BUT. If he is innocent then he can't wait to get to trial to prove just that in 16 days.
 
susiQ said:
I doubt very much there will be a plea deal. R & B believe he is innocent. They will continue to do their very best to find a way to prove that at trial. How could they live with themselves otherwise?? There’s no out once he makes a deal. No appeal. A plea deal gives him absolutely nothing. Even if they lose this time, there are plenty of attorneys waiting to appeal and they will have lots of grounds to do it. Besides, if Nicky has the goods, why on earth would he even consider offering him a deal? I wouldn’t. AND, I wouldn’t make a plea myself if I were innocent. I would die with my integrity in tact! JMO
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IMO he's at a dead end as far as incarceration goes. Life without parole or death penalty. If he would plea deal for LWOP, he'd probably still be kept segregated for his safety.

Unless all this "safety concern" they have for him is just pretrial.

I sure wouldn't plead just to avoid the DP. Some things in life are worse than death and if I personally was facing years living in conditions like he's being kept in, I'd have little problem with it coming to an end.
 
FrostedGlass said:
IMO he's at a dead end as far as incarceration goes. Life without parole or death penalty. If he would plea deal for LWOP, he'd probably still be kept segregated for his safety.

Unless all this "safety concern" they have for him is just pretrial.

I sure wouldn't plead just to avoid the DP. Some things in life are worse than death and if I personally was facing years living in conditions like he's being kept in, I'd have little problem with it coming to an end.
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Agree 100%!
 
The irony of this case. Captured on social media. Tried in social media. Even youtubers in the court room. This trial may set a new precedent on how youtubers report in the future.

Also ironic the suspect tips himself in & ends up in prison all by himself before he is even found guilty. I agree if he is found innocent the pretrial conditions are horrible. But many postings have shown this is the way of Indiana Prisons. They have him moved here for his safety and the safety of others. We don't know why they felt this is necessary but I am sure there is good reason. I also wonder if some of those companions were a bit traumatized by his behaviors and that will be their testimony to the court. I'm basing this on an article link I posted a few days ago about the suicide companions and how serious they take their job. They had some traumatizing events happen while watching the vulnerable prisoners.
 
vinayd said:
Thank you so much!

Perspective... I am doing way better than RA. Wonder what will be on the docket this fine Friday. Can't help to feel it will turn into a plea deal with no trial. In cases where a plea is done I think the evidence will still come out.
Onward march for truth and justice!
Click to expand...

Yes, a plea deal is likely when the ra legal nonsense runs out of stalling options
 
Justice101 said:
We all think, there is no way I would be fooled like that if I was his wife.
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I think the bizarre nature of the crime combined with suffocating secrecy made it hard for spouses to know exactly what they were supposed to be looking for, aside from the wide range of physical descriptions. Just as an example, it could have been known that RA had an unusual fascination with seemingly innocent artwork featuring nearly naked girls playing in the woods, norse symbology, or other details we don't even know yet, details which potentially could have made it more obvious.

And there's always the chance that she wasn't fooled at all - she didn't think it was him because it wasn't him.
 
vinayd said:
The irony of this case. Captured on social media. Tried in social media. Even youtubers in the court room. This trial may set a new precedent on how youtubers report in the future.

Also ironic the suspect tips himself in & ends up in prison all by himself before he is even found guilty. I agree if he is found innocent the pretrial conditions are horrible. But many postings have shown this is the way of Indiana Prisons. They have him moved here for his safety and the safety of others. We don't know why they felt this is necessary but I am sure there is good reason. I also wonder if some of those companions were a bit traumatized by his behaviors and that will be their testimony to the court. I'm basing this on an article link I posted a few days ago about the suicide companions and how serious they take their job. They had some traumatizing events happen while watching the vulnerable prisoners.
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What I find ironic is that perhaps if they had not sent him to a prison like Westville in the first place he may not have deteriorated to the state he did. I have seen first hand (too often) what the wrong med can do to someone. I’m not saying the doctor was in on a conspiracy but were the behaviours these companions and guards were seeing reported quickly and taken seriously? Maybe he should have been transported to a facility that serves the mentally ill and could keep him in custody safely while determining what the right meds would be. Westville sounds like a h@llhole. JMHO
 
TTF14 said:
What do you mean by stalling? How are they stalling?
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Just MOO but taking 10 pages of the Franks to describe Abby's "slow death" and how it was impossible for one man to redress her. The visuals they created were totally unnecessary. That Franks made it necessary to exchange mountains of irrelevant discoveries that were already discovered. Big waste of time all JMO.
 
vinayd said:
Just MOO but taking 10 pages of the Franks to describe Abby's "slow death" and how it was impossible for one man to redress her. The visuals they created were totally unnecessary. That Franks made it necessary to exchange mountains of irrelevant discoveries that were already discovered. Big waste of time all JMO.
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Irrelevant to whom?

I'm not seeing how that has anything to do with what the defense is doing now, though, and how it's stalling? They are filing motions. The trial date is set and they haven't asked for it to be continued (although I think they should but also hope they don't!).

I was listening to an attorney (Bob Motta) recently and he used the word "dirty pool." I think that's what he said. I kinda missed it to be sure, but I THINK what he meant by that term and saying it happens pretty regularly, is that attorneys turn over Discovery all "messed up" so that it takes the other side a lot longer, and involves a lot more hassle, than normal to go through it. I absolutely think that's what is happening here....hello, a video of a dead guy being rolled over on a bed? Lost interviews, lost CCTV footage, lost recordings from the field, wrong Discovery included (assumption)....at what point does this become intentional and not just a case of Keystone Cops? I find it so odd the family is still standing with LE after all these missteps, but I guess I'm missing something. (Maybe they're not and we just don't know it because of the gag order).

IMO MOO
 
@AugustWest
Sorry to trouble you, but I have a question. I feel like @layer, “I ask the stupid questions so you don’t have to,” lol! I have no legal knowledge and very much appreciate your input on this thread!

Given EF’s admission to his sisters, is there a likelihood that he will be called as a witness by the D despite his cognitive impairment? If yes, what would that look like in terms of self-incrimination? I have some compassion in that regard because of his impairment and getting in with such a bunch of absolute losers. I’d like to send him to Vinlander/Odinist rehab.

Thanks! :)
 
susiQ said:
@AugustWest
Sorry to trouble you, but I have a question. I feel like @layer, “I ask the stupid questions so you don’t have to,” lol! I have no legal knowledge and very much appreciate your input on this thread!

Given EF’s admission to his sisters, is there a likelihood that he will be called as a witness by the D despite his cognitive impairment? If yes, what would that look like in terms of self-incrimination? I have some compassion in that regard because of his impairment and getting in with such a bunch of absolute losers. I’d like to send him to Vinlander/Odinist rehab.

Thanks! :)
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I think there is zero chance he would be called. Like you mention, he could be asked statements that would be incriminating, and would immediately be protected against such by the Fifth Amendment. The closest the judge would allow would be questioning one/both the sisters, but I think that unlikely also, absent some material evidence to support her/their potential testimony.
 
AugustWest said:
I think there is zero chance he would be called. Like you mention, he could be asked statements that would be incriminating, and would immediately be protected against such by the Fifth Amendment. The closest the judge would allow would be questioning one/both the sisters, but I think that unlikely also, absent some material evidence to support her/their potential testimony.
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Thank you! I was hoping that maybe the sisters, but that doesn’t look promising either.
 
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