Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[MollyDDD]

How strict is the Court, usually, with holding attorneys to deadlines? Is this 9 month delay by the State "sanctionable," in your opinion?

It’s taken seven years for them to get to this point.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Irrelevant to whom?

I'm not seeing how that has anything to do with what the defense is doing now, though, and how it's stalling? They are filing motions. The trial date is set and they haven't asked for it to be continued (although I think they should but also hope they don't!).

I was listening to an attorney (Bob Motta) recently and he used the word "dirty pool." I think that's what he said. I kinda missed it to be sure, but I THINK what he meant by that term and saying it happens pretty regularly, is that attorneys turn over Discovery all "messed up" so that it takes the other side a lot longer, and involves a lot more hassle, than normal to go through it. I absolutely think that's what is happening here....hello, a video of a dead guy being rolled over on a bed? Lost interviews, lost CCTV footage, lost recordings from the field, wrong Discovery included (assumption)....at what point does this become intentional and not just a case of Keystone Cops? I find it so odd the family is still standing with LE after all these missteps, but I guess I'm missing something. (Maybe they're not and we just don't know it because of the gag order).

IMO MOO

That scrambling of papers happens in the lower courts, too. When a plaintiff appears in court with copies of docs for himself, the judge and the defendant, sometimes the defendant's papers are scrambled while the P's and the J's are in the same order. It casts a shadow on the D.

 

[WildHuncher]

I think the bizarre nature of the crime combined with suffocating secrecy made it hard for spouses to know exactly what they were supposed to be looking for, aside from the wide range of physical descriptions. Just as an example, it could have been known that RA had an unusual fascination with seemingly innocent artwork featuring nearly naked girls playing in the woods, norse symbology, or other details we don't even know yet, details which potentially could have made it more obvious.

And there's always the chance that she wasn't fooled at all - she didn't think it was him because it wasn't him.

Possible, but I’d say the naked Greek mythology is way better and you can look at it all day while merely appearing cultured.

Or that’s what I hear.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I don't believe moving RA was ever really about keeping him safe. They probably could have taken him up to their secure site north of town, they probably could have left him in White Co. jail, they probably could have even left him in the Reception Diagnostic Center in Plainfield, IN. But, NO, they really wanted him in Westville. IMO

Indiana seems pretty dived in places as far a getting out on bail; but as a whole, I think most of us are OK with leaving accused murders in jail.

Those 25 confessions are problematic. We will never know if those were true confessions because they chose to confine him in such a way that drives sane people insane. If we need more papers to understand what horrid conditions he's being kept in, I can probably add 70 more to the 70 that are referenced in the link.

Public Health and Solitary Confinement in the United States

The history of solitary confinement in the United States stretches from the silent prisons of 200 years ago to today’s supermax prisons, mechanized panopticons that isolate tens of thousands, sometimes for decades. We examined the living conditions ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I really don’t understand why there is still debate about the prison conditions and RA.
There was a hearing on it almost a year ago. The ruling was that where he was being housed and the manner he was being held were proper, adding that the charges in the defense’s motion were greatly exaggerated.
Some folks may not like the ruling, they may not like the judge, but it has had its day in court.
If the defense wants to argue that prison life has negatively affected RA, even driven him stark raving mad, they can argue that at trial. The prison conditions themselves have already been ruled on.
This is just my thoughts.

 

[justtrish]

Well that would have all been relevant if RA's lawyers hadn't withdrawn themselves from representing him in the first place. RA's new lawyers then set the trial date with the court for Oct 2024. After AB&BR changed their minds about withdrawing and brought it up with SCOIN, being reinstated, RA's did not file speedy trial until just recently. It was their prerogative, their decision not to have done so even much earlier, in 2023. Maybe RA should sue his lawyers for malfeasance/malpractice?

I still do not understand why they did this.

 

[TTF14]

I really don’t understand why there is still debate about the prison conditions and RA.
There was a hearing on it almost a year ago. The ruling was that where he was being housed and the manner he was being held were proper, adding that the charges in the defense’s motion were greatly exaggerated.
Some folks may not like the ruling, they may not like the judge, but it has had its day in court.
If the defense wants to argue that prison life has negatively affected RA, even driven him stark raving mad, they can argue that at trial. The prison conditions themselves have already been ruled on.
This is just my thoughts.

Was there a hearing? I thought there wasn't a hearing, but it's so hard to remember!

 

[vinayd]

I still do not understand why they did this.

Motta said it could be to show the State's hand in not being ready themselves. Pushing them to a quicker trial before all evidence is in. I do watch Defense Diaries as well as the Prosecutor Podcast. I will say Motta himself said he had concerns after the latest filings and that neither side was ready, moreso the D.

 

[AugustWest]

I really don’t understand why there is still debate about the prison conditions and RA.
There was a hearing on it almost a year ago. The ruling was that where he was being housed and the manner he was being held were proper, adding that the charges in the defense’s motion were greatly exaggerated.
Some folks may not like the ruling, they may not like the judge, but it has had its day in court.
If the defense wants to argue that prison life has negatively affected RA, even driven him stark raving mad, they can argue that at trial. The prison conditions themselves have already been ruled on.
This is just my thoughts.

The debate isn't about the same thing. Whether the manner in which he has been held is proper is not the same issue as whether the manner in which he has been held has caused him to deteriorate mentally, and thus be unable to make a voluntary or uncoerced confession.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

The debate isn't about the same thing. Whether the manner in which he has been held is proper is not the same issue as whether the manner in which he has been held has caused him to deteriorate mentally, and thus be unable to make a voluntary or uncoerced confession.

Yes. I know.
I think I was pretty clear about that.

 

[justtrish]

Motta said it could be to show the State's hand in not being ready themselves. Pushing them to a quicker trial before all evidence is in. I do watch Defense Diaries as well as the Prosecutor Podcast. I will say Motta himself said he had concerns after the latest filings and that neither side was ready, moreso the D.

If this is the case, I just don't think that is representing RA well. It seems like a game and maybe this is just how it goes and it is normal, but I still don't like it. Why not just spend the time going through the discovery and building your case?

I know many will say this is providing a good D

I still think it does suggest the state has evidence that is damning against their client and they HAVE to do these things in order to distract from that evidence vs just defending the evidence in court and showing that their client was actually home or at work or whatever.

 

[AugustWest]

Yes. I know.
I think I was pretty clear about that.

You were, but the second issue hasn't had its day in court. The first has.

 

[vinayd]

I think we are awaiting itemized confessions from the D with material evidence. The ruling is due 5/1. Likely to be denied because she has already ruled that his housing conditions are in accordance to IDOC. He is not in actual/technical solitary confinement. So I think she will deny it and move on to trial.

 

[TTF14]

Can someone please refresh my memory about this: When did the Defense file for a speedy trial? And, when did they find out about all of the evidence the investigators negligently lost/"recorded over?"

 

[justtrish]

If RA had his phone on him on the trail that day as he said he did watching the stock tracker, then this would all be cleared up pretty easily. His phone would have told LE when he arrived and when he left the area.

Wonder why his phone didn't clear him?

Is it because the phone he took to the trail is not the phone he showed the conservation officer that day? Did the phone he showed to DD (I recall numbers being written down from that phone on that note he took from the chat with RA) show that phone was EVER at the trail? IF not, why and if it did what times?

Has his phone EVER been mentioned as far as location data and his arrival and departing the trail?

 

[AugustWest]

Can someone please refresh my memory about this: When did the Defense file for a speedy trial? And, when did they find out about all of the evidence the investigators negligently lost/"recorded over?"

March 6, 2024

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[vinayd]

If RA had his phone on him on the trail that day as he said he did watching the stock tracker, then this would all be cleared up pretty easily. His phone would have told LE when he arrived and when he left the area.

Wonder why his phone didn't clear him?

Is it because the phone he took to the trail is not the phone he showed the conservation officer that day? Did the phone he showed to DD (I recall numbers being written down from that phone on that note he took from the chat with RA) show that phone was EVER at the trail? IF not, why and if it did what times?

Has his phone EVER been mentioned as far as location data and his arrival and departing the trail?

I remember a number too and I felt it was an Indianapolis area code.

Nothing at all on the phones.

 

[WildHuncher]

If this is the case, I just don't think that is representing RA well. It seems like a game and maybe this is just how it goes and it is normal, but I still don't like it. Why not just spend the time going through the discovery and building your case?

I know many will say this is providing a good D

I still think it does suggest the state has evidence that is damning against their client and they HAVE to do these things in order to distract from that evidence vs just defending the evidence in court and showing that their client was actually home or at work or whatever.

BBM. My reaction too. Even allowing the obvious haste (lack of editing) in the prep of some of these motions, much time has been lost in this flack storm.

Unless the real point was trying the case in the public eye, tainting the jury pool.

 

[TTF14]

BBM. My reaction too. Even allowing the obvious haste (lack of editing) in the prep of some of these motions, much time has been lost in this flack storm.

Unless the real point was trying the case in the public eye, tainting the jury pool.

They have to get things on the record. It's easy for us to say "just spend the time going through Discovery!" But, they have to be thinking ahead for a possible appeal, too. They know what they're doing. IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

March 6, 2024

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Thank you. Anyone remember when they found out about all the "lost" Discovery?

 

[photographer4]

.

I wonder if RAspeak was ever in the dialect of gaslighting.

*MOO* let's say that RA worked through it in his head. Knows he was seen by the group of juveniles, decides to get out in front of that, speaks with DD.

LE releases the video clip.

Let's say his wife DOES see a resemblance.... but RA gets out in front of that too. Tells her he spoke to LE, overstates the weight of that interaction, emphasizes how uber helpful he was, helping them lock down the timeline for example... would a GUILTY person do that? Ask BMorphew who voluntarily interviewed for 3 30hrs because, in his words, "a guilty person wouldn't do that". RA presenting himself as active, helpful, practically sporting sn honorary LE sticker badge, would go a long way IMO toward assuaging any nagging suspicion. Maybe that was all it took to give KA the layer of trust/relief that carried her through the years, believing very much that LE had spoken to him at length and, if they had no doubts, she needn't nurse any either. Could be the very same reasoning he used in retaining the jacket, the gun, the vehicle, the beard/stubble. It'd look suss to lose any of them so he worked them, that they would cement the not-guiltiness he wanted to project.

Of note, I think most people assume that a guilty person would... act guilty. Slink, dodge, roll. Betting MY money, RA banked on his role as husband, father, provider, protector, CVS employee of the week, extending courtesies even to the victims' families. And that's how you hide in plain sight. Social camouflage.

JMO

Ok, so let's imagine that it all went down as you posted. Why then, for years and years did RA seemingly NOT push LE to get his image out of the press, missing persons posters, videos etc (if he was BG I mean). Why be content to leave that out there with a question as to whether HE killed those kids? What would have made him content to leave that image up for people to think it might be him / to tip his name in to LE? Why not insist police tell the public they spoke with BG AND it wasn't RA? Or even that BG was no longer a suspect????

Two possible answers;
1. RA didn't wanna let on that he thought he was BG / knew he was BG
2. RA isn't BG and didn't think anything of the BG photo/video