Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182

[katydid23]

I read it. It's just a lot of "they are wrong" - and very poorly written. Nick is saying "they have everything and always have...I don't know why they can't find it." That's how I took it.

Maybe he is telling the truth?

 

[TTF14]

Maybe he is telling the truth?

Yep, maybe! I didn't say otherwise.

 

[katydid23]

Here's what I don't get about the P: this could have been his grand chance to shut those darned Ds up. He could have hauled them into court, showed his receipts that he did all the things he said he did and made the D look like bumbling fools in front of anyone who was watching.

Instead, he asked for a decision without a hearing.

Adobe Acrobat

acrobat.adobe.com

Maybe he didn't want to talk publicly about specific evidence and so he didn't want to sort this issue out during a hearing. Maybe he doesn't care about making the D look like bumbling fools at the expense of revealing important case evidence prematurely?

 

[TTF14]

I think this trial is going to have so many sidebars and jurors being sent out of the room because they just don't have enough time to hash it all out before the trial starts.

IMO MOO

 

[Caylee Advocate]

I'll refrain from saying more since you will probably interpret it as disrespect, and you shared that you think disrespect of her is unnecessary.

Yet it is okay to drag the defense attorneys or anyone associated with them through the mud? Fair is fair IMO. If it can be done to them, why shouldn't it be alright to sling some at the P. or JG?

Personally I think it should all stop... life will go on long after this trial and sadly, there will be more murders.

 

[TTF14]

Maybe he didn't want to talk publicly about specific evidence and so he didn't want to sort this issue out during a hearing. Maybe he doesn't care about making the D look like bumbling fools at the expense of revealing important case evidence prematurely?

Or maybe he's seen this judge's affinity for granting motions without hearings so he assumes it's a given?

 

[zh0r4]

Just a reminder of who Judge Francis Gull is.

She is more than the current trial, and the blatant and continuous disrespect for her is really unnecessary IMO.

Delphi murder trial: What to know about Judge Frances Gull


Judge Frances Gull has served Allen County's superior court since 1997. She's been re-elected four times. Gull has overseen six criminal courts, according to her Allen Superior Court biography page, and has served more than 20 years as the administrative judge of the superior court's criminal division.

With respect, we the people can observe behavior of a judge without coming from a place of disrespect. Anyone who believes RA is the perp should care about whether the judge is following protocol to avoid future appeals/potential overturning of a conviction of a guilty suspect. Taxpayers pay judges, therefore it is fair and reasonable to expect judges to conduct themselves appropriately (in any situation).

It is inaccurate to paint Judge Gull as flawless, as the Indiana Supreme Court has already had to intervene and reinstate defense attorneys who were unconstitutionally thrown off the case; this move delayed justice for Abby and Libby by delaying proceedings.

Furthermore, Judge Gull recently had one of her trials overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court due to her allowance of late discovery in 2022.

Copypasta:

“The Supreme Court reversed Defendant's conviction of one count of felony child molestation, holding that the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance.

An impermissible local rule and an improperly issued protective order prevented Defendant's defense attorney from obtaining a copy of the alleged victim's interview. Further, the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance when the state disclosed extensive new evidence the day before trial in order to investigate the new allegations and reconstruct trial strategy. The Supreme Court reversed, holding that the trial court (1) erred in prohibiting Defendant from obtaining a copy of the interview before trial, but reversal was not required on this basis; and (2) abused its discretion by denying Defendant's continuance request, and the error was prejudicial.”

Again, whether the perp is guilty or innocent is irrelevant ultimately, if improper protocol results in overturned convictions-but of course it would be even worse in cases where the perp is guilty. I feel it is important that we sleuthers do not feel guilted or bullied when making stoic observations re: cases, as discussion is what makes this website so cool and interesting.

AJMO.

Source:
(2022 opinion by SCOIN Rush) Ramirez v. State

Ramirez v. State

The Supreme Court reversed Defendant's conviction of one count of felony child molestation, holding that the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance.

law.justia.com

 

[sunshineray]

WARNING: Don't get excited. THIS IS NOT RA's DOCKET !!!!
just another adjacent-player ...

View attachment 500294
Woodhouse trial was scheduled for May 13th as well, a conflict for the RA Prosecution.
So ... someone had to delay or plea and ... turns out ... it wasn't RA.

(Woodhouse also being the party that received RA's Defense outline via erroneous email sent to BW instead of Brad Rozzi. And Woodhouse sued Delphi re civil rights violations ... and won.)

... and then back to jail with BW ... for whatever the above plea is for ...

here's the case against Delphi:
Woodhouse v. Leazenby et al

Still two weeks for RA to decide to plea...or I probably should say before RA's lawyers to decide if they want to let him plea. The above BW plea is a felony 4 for a violent offender...who just, by the way, happens to be in AB's email contacts...who knows why really...not so great company to be corresponding with, IMO and AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

I think this trial is going to have so many sidebars and jurors being sent out of the room because they just don't have enough time to hash it all out before the trial starts.

IMO MOO

There's always plenty of side bars nowadays.

 

[TTF14]

Still two weeks for RA to decide to plea...or I probably should say before RA's lawyers to decide if they want to let him plea. The above BW plea is a felony 4 for a violent offender...who just, by the way, happens to be in AB's email contacts...who knows why really...not so great company to be corresponding with, IMO and AJMO

Wasn't he in his contacts because he represented him at some point?

I have thousands of people in my contacts because I've had the same email address since the late 90s. I probably only know 30% of them because I use it for work as well as personal.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I had high hopes for her.

She’s doing her job.
She’s done one thing wrong in this case. That was to not drag B and R’s lying pathetic rears into that courtroom, stand them up in front of the world and their mommas, detail their neglectful representation of RA, and kick them to the curb.
Instead, this well respected judge, chose to show some mercy and actually believe B and R and allow them to resign in her office.
They lied though. They admitted it to her at the next hearing. In the transcript they sound pretty proud of themselves. Lied to her on purpose because it was part of their plan.
Her haters’ hate is terribly misplaced.
This is my opinion.

 

[Ravenmoon]

With respect, we the people can observe behavior of a judge without coming from a place of disrespect. Anyone who believes RA is the perp should care about whether the judge is following protocol to avoid future appeals/potential overturning of a conviction of a guilty suspect. Taxpayers pay judges, therefore it is fair and reasonable to expect judges to conduct themselves appropriately (in any situation).

It is inaccurate to paint Judge Gull as flawless, as the Indiana Supreme Court has already had to intervene and reinstate defense attorneys who were unconstitutionally thrown off the case; this move delayed justice for Abby and Libby by delaying proceedings.

Furthermore, Judge Gull recently had one of her trials overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court due to her allowance of late discovery in 2022.

Copypasta:

“The Supreme Court reversed Defendant's conviction of one count of felony child molestation, holding that the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance.

An impermissible local rule and an improperly issued protective order prevented Defendant's defense attorney from obtaining a copy of the alleged victim's interview. Further, the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance when the state disclosed extensive new evidence the day before trial in order to investigate the new allegations and reconstruct trial strategy. The Supreme Court reversed, holding that the trial court (1) erred in prohibiting Defendant from obtaining a copy of the interview before trial, but reversal was not required on this basis; and (2) abused its discretion by denying Defendant's continuance request, and the error was prejudicial.”

Again, whether the perp is guilty or innocent is irrelevant ultimately, if improper protocol results in overturned convictions-but of course it would be even worse in cases where the perp is guilty. I feel it is important that we sleuthers do not feel guilted or bullied when making stoic observations re: cases, as discussion is what makes this website so cool and interesting.

AJMO.

Source:
(2022 opinion by SCOIN Rush) Ramirez v. State

Ramirez v. State

The Supreme Court reversed Defendant's conviction of one count of felony child molestation, holding that the trial court denied Defendant's requests for a continuance.

law.justia.com

Clearly, you and I are a mile apart.

This is not about questioning her choices.

This is about name calling and calling her Mommy to the Prosecutor.

Questioning some of her decisions is fair.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Wasn't he in his contacts because he represented him at some point?

I have thousands of people in my contacts because I've had the same email address since the late 90s. I probably only know 30% of them because I use it for work as well as personal.

I do too. But..if I sent an extremely confidential and important corporate document to say.. my plumber, or some dude I once dated .. and the information got spread around, I’d expect serious repercussions at work, and perhaps be fired. I don’t deal with crime scene photos (thankfully).

 

[Cyber sleuth]

There are alternative ways for 'sex' to happen that do not leave telltale signs. For some sexual predators, the act of stabbing can be their sexual release. Or seeing the fear they create can be the ultimate turn on. JMO

I shutter to even think the word “sex” should be used. Assault with sexual component isn’t right either. It was an assault-it was not an act in any way shape or form consensual. It was a form of grape. IMO

But mandating the exclusion of other plausible theories that the Prosecution actually provided evidence of doesn't seem fair. The State is basically saying "we know you saw all that stuff we handed over that makes it obvious that there could be another person, or persons ("other actors" as Nick McLeland himself has said) responsible, but we didn't really think you'd notice that....please just keep that quiet because we want to convict THIS guy only, ok?"

It isn't like they are pulling these theories out of the air.....it's all stuff that's been uncovered by the investigators!

Remember, Doug Carter has told us that NOBODY has been cleared. I really hope the jury hears that.

JMO MOO

Bbm
To me this is normal LE language. Perhaps someone initially provided a false alibi for our arrested defendant, perhaps there was someone that helped obstruct the investigation by giving false tips.
Perhaps a person not directly involved with the crime innocently or not so innocently destroyed evidence.
There are many reasons to keep an investigation open. Doesn’t necessarily mean other suspects were there on the trails abducting, undressing and killing these girls.
JMO

 

[sunshineray]

Wasn't he in his contacts because he represented him at some point?

I have thousands of people in my contacts because I've had the same email address since the late 90s. I probably only know 30% of them because I use it for work as well as personal.

No I don't believe so. They emailed each other talking about information to do with RA's trial. IIRC

 

[layer]

Maybe he is telling the truth?

With 26 TB how could they not have everything? In ten years they might even be able to dig through it all. Maybe

 

[layer]

Maybe he doesn't care about making the D look like bumbling fools at the expense of revealing important case evidence prematurely?

I honestly don't think anyone working either side of this case is trying to make anyone look like bumbling fools. It just comes naturally.

 

[TTF14]

Bbm
To me this is normal LE language. Perhaps someone initially provided a false alibi for our arrested defendant, perhaps there was someone that helped obstruct the investigation by giving false tips.
Perhaps a person not directly involved with the crime innocently or not so innocently destroyed evidence.
There are many reasons to keep an investigation open. Doesn’t necessarily mean other suspects were there on the trails abducting, undressing and killing these girls.
JMO

RSBM

But he said this to a reporter on the same day as the press conference announcing the arrest of Richard Allen (after the presser). And when she asked if RA was the man on the bridge, he glibly replied, "The judge signed an affidavit...." instead of answering the question.

 

[Melted]

(WARNING, GRAPHIC)

bbm

From article about the Woodhouse case:

“
<snip>

The document continues to state Woodhouse informed the jail staff he had epilepsy during booking into the jail. Woodhouse suffered a massive seizure in the jail on Nov. 18. The complaint states Woodhouse was rendered unconscious and other inmates had to scream and yell to get jail staff’s attention in an effort to get help for Woodhouse. Jailer Randle transported Woodhouse to IU Health in White County and reported to hospital staff that Woodhouse had suffered a seizure while incarcerated in the Carroll County Jail.

According to the complaint, the hospital staff suspected Woodhouse might be withdrawing from medications and/or drugs. Hospital physicians prescribed Valium to Woodhouse to treat the seizure. While in the hospital, the hospital doctors explained the dangers of stopping Valium abruptly. The prescription for Valium was given to Randle, however, according to the complaint, Randle refused to fill the prescription or otherwise give any Valium to Woodhouse as was prescribed by the hospital doctors.

The Carroll County Jail reported to the Circuit Court Woodhouse was intoxicated and not in a condition to appear before the court. Woodhouse did not receive any medication on Nov. 19. He asked a jail employee if the employee had forgotten to give the prescribed medication to him. Woodhouse alleges the jailer reached into his pocket and gave him several pills.

Woodhouse stated he began to feel sick after taking the pills and as Woodhouse was laying down in his cell, Randle and another jailer came into his cell. They pulled out a bag of insulin syringes and began to place them around Woodhouse’s body, according to the formal court papers. As Woodhouse became more awake, Randle and the other officer left his cell and Woodhouse could hear Randle, Jail Commander Sustarsic and the other jailer speaking outside of his cell.

Woodhouse alleges that Randle and the other jailer came back into his cell and they put syringes and narcotics next to his body again and took photographs. Woodhouse indicated he begged for them to stop. The prisoner then tried to clean up the syringes and narcotics after Randle and the other jailer left the cell. Woodhouse reports he then laid back down in his cell and vomited.

Woodhouse alleges that Randle and the other jailer went into his cell for a third time and the other jailer checked to see if Woodhouse was awake. Again, syringes and narcotics were placed around the prisoner. Woodhouse indicated Randle took photos of the scene. He said after the photos were taken, the other jailer bent down and touched Woodhouse’s genitals and then inserted a finger into the prisoner’s rectum.

The allegations continue to state that after this incident, he could see a security television replaying the ordeal for him to watch. He said he felt ashamed, embarrassed and violated. Later on Nov. 19, Woodhouse was transported to Circuit Court by Randle. He alleges Randle handed the judge “a stack of photographs” and told the judge that Woodhouse appeared to be under the influence. Woodhouse said Randle told the judge that he (Woodhouse) had picked the lock of the nurse’s station and then the jail’s evidence room to obtain the syringes and narcotics.

When Woodhouse was taken back to the jail after court, he was denied a bottom bunk and was forced to sleep in a top bunk, from which he fell out of due to another seizure and was knocked unconscious. Woodhouse alleges other inmates “had to scream and yell” for help. He was taken to IU Hospital in White County for treatment and was diagnosed with facial contusions, low back pain and traumatic nasal hemorrhage. Woodhouse bonded out of the Carroll County Jail later that day, on Nov. 20, 2019.

The complaint states that, as a direct and proximate result of the actions and inactions of all defendants, Woodhouse has suffered severe personal injuries, including disfigurement and deformity, severe emotional injuries, incurred medical expenses, suffered physically and emotionally, suffered permanent injuries and other injuries and damages. The defendants’ refusal to provide Woodhouse with prescription medication and other necessary medical treatment and the failure to provide Woodhouse with a bottom bunk at the jail constitutes deliberate indifference to his health, safety and serious medical needs in violation of the 8th and 14th amendments of the Constitution of the United States. In addition, the defendants’ actions and inactions constitute a violation of Woodhouse’s 4th Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizures.

The document states the defendants’ actions constitute negligence, assault, battery, sexual battery, intimidation, excessive force, negligent infliction of emotional distress and intentional infliction of emotional distress under Indiana law.

<snip>
“

Source:

Former county jail inmate claims civil rights violation - Carroll County Comet

A former Carroll County jail inmate, Brandon Woodhouse, has filed a complaint in the Northern Indiana District Court against Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, the County Sheriff’s Department, Jailer John (as spelled in the formal complaint) Randle and Jail Commander Lori Sustarsic. The...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

What. The. ?

 

[Cyber sleuth]

RSBM

But he said this to a reporter on the same day as the press conference announcing the arrest of Richard Allen (after the presser). And when she asked if RA was the man on the bridge, he glibly replied, "The judge signed an affidavit...." instead of answering the question.

Yes it’s the correct language to use for a man that has only been charged and not found guilty yet. Similar to the defense. IMO
This is appropriate LE speak for the question as posed.
IMO