Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[TTF14]

The FBI or ISP wouldn’t punk about phone data. It doesn’t matter if apps were updated, messages or phone calls, etc., the phone pings if it is in the radius.

Phones are computers, part of their programming includes pinging towers when they are on.

If the phone pinged it was on, that is certain. Whether Libby was still alive or not is another issue. We only know the phone was on and in the area when it pinged. This is a huge deal re: Justice for Libby & Abby. The right perpetrator(s) need to be held accountable. There is zero reason to (allegedly) withhold such crucial information.

BBM

I can't wait to see what Nick has to say. I hope he files something soon we can read.

The world is watching.

MOO IMO

 

[layer]

Theoretically, you could deduce the phone was off or the battery dead during times the phone wasn’t transferring any data. But that doesn’t tell you anything except the phone was off or dead.

One thing about the phones, I think it depends on which phone we're talking about. They should know every single detail about Libby's phone: on/off/airplane modes, battery status, specific time/date logs etc... because they have the actual phone at the contemporaneous time. For all we know the battery wasn't even dead when it was found, it could have been in some kind of apple hibernation mode. And we would know of pedos, norsemen, goldilocks or unknowns interacting with that phone as well, especially when you combine what you have from the physical phone with what is out there in the inter-verse that traces to accounts associated with that phone. In other words, that phone is a gold mine.
Between Delphi and Moscow I hope to learn a great deal more about cell phone tracking, tower dumps, geofencing, GPS, and what was and wasn't possible in 2017 and 2022. I never really looked at this stuff before the Adnan Syed deal.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Hi @vinayd I wanted to reply to your reply to me on the last thread, I’m still behind!

Post in thread 'Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #182'

Bbm

In the State’s Response to the Defendant’s Motion to Compel and Request for Sanctions (3/17/2024):

8. The law enforcement geofence reports have been provided to the Defense to the best of our knowledge.

In the State’s Response to the Defendant’s Amended Motion to Compel and Request for Sanctions (3/23/2024):

7. In response to request 11, all geo-fence data in the State's possession has been provided to the Defense and is listed in the Discovery Releases. The agency responsible for the interpretation of the geo-fence data is the FBI CAST team; specifically, Special Agent Kevin Horan (retired) and Special Agent Sabric.

On 4/3/2024 in the State’s Response to the 3rd Frank’s:

“The Defense was advised on March 4th, 2023, that State witnesses specializing in geofencing data would be ISP First Sergeant Christopher Cecil, FBI Agent Kevin Horan, and/or ISP Sergent Pete Glogoza. However, the Defense filed their 3rd Motion for Franks Hearing based on "newly discovered evidence" that was available during the first discovery disclosure in October 2023 and in the second discovery disclosure after counsel was reinstated. The State witnesses for geofencing data interpretations would testify that:”
View attachment 500655

A couple of weeks later in the Motion in Limine filed 4/29/2024

9. Any reference to geofencing and/or any testimony from Kevin Horan about geofencing or the findings from any geofence search that is not relevant or is for the purpose of confusing the issues or has the potential to mislead the jury in violation of Rule 401. IRE 401. Burden is on the opponent to show why it is relevant. Relevant evidence may be excluded if its probative value is substantially outweighed by its prejudicial effect. Evidence may be excluded if it confuses the issues.
View attachment 500656

What happened between 4/3 and 4/29 when the P filed the Motion in Limine seemingly trying to silence 2 LEOs, including one of the FBI agents mentioned in the state’s previously filing who they said would testify the D’s concerns about geofencing were misconstrued/not applicable?


This is all AFTER this was cited by the D in the 3rd Frank’s Motion on 3/13/2024

8. Specifically, the defense received certain geofencing evidence that at least 3 persons were in or around the crime scene at a time while the murders were taking place (according to law enforcement timelines) and none of the owners of the phones have any connection to Richard Allen.

9. This geofencing evidence would provide evidence of any of the following scenarios:
a. Those persons walking with the phones are witnesses that would have observed the murders as they were taking place and none of them have identified Richard Allen; or

b. Those persons walking with the phones were witnesses who observed nothing, as the murders did not take place the afternoon of February 13, 2023, but the victims were taken to the crime scene after the search was called off.

c. Those persons walking with the phones were participants in the murders.

10. Said geofencing evidence was so important to somebody involved in the investigation that they created a map and plotted the movements of these persons, including movements that show that at least one of these persons was within 60-100 yards of the crime scene at a time while the murders would have been committed according to law enforcement's timelines. The phones, once again, had no connection to Richard Allen.

11. Furthermore, the map shows that the other two phones, and the persons carrying those phones, were in and around the crime scene between 12:39:54 pm and 5:49 pm on February 13, 2017.

12. That defense has sought out, but has not been provided, any documents or reports that contradict or refutes said geofencing evidence, but have not found such evidence, nor has the prosecutor provided any when defense requested reports on said geofencing.
View attachment 500657
View attachment 500658


In my opinion, the chronological order of these mentions of the FBI’s geofencing then the Motion in Limine, almost sounds like at least (Ret) Agent Horan’s geofencing analysis does not support RA as a suspect in the area at the time of the murders. Otherwise the P would be citing the FBI reports and definitely wouldn’t be mentioning any of it in the Motion in Limine. IANAL but if I was a juror this sequence of filings on the geofencing data specifically wouldn’t convince me beyond a reasonable doubt, exactly the opposite.

Who is the state’s geofencing witness now? Is there support re: geofencing data that RA is a suspect or not? Why are 2 LEOs listed in the P’s Motion in Limine?

AJMO


Sources:
3rd Franks Motion
filed by Baldwin 3/13/2024 p. 2 & 3
Third Franks Notice & Request For Franks Hearing
State's response to defendant's motion to compel and request for sanctions
filed by Mcleland 3/17/2024
Adobe Acrobat
STATE'S RESPONSE TO DEFENDANT'S AMENDED MOTION TO COMPEL AND REQUEST FOR SANCTIONS p. 3 &4
filed by Mcleland 3/23/2024 10:29PM
Adobe Acrobat
States response to the 3rd Franks
filed by Mcleland 4/3/2024 p. 3
State’s Response to 3rd Franks Motion
Motion in Limine
filed by Mcleland 4/29/2024
Adobe Acrobat

My issue is phones do not always equal people. One person could have brought several phones.
In fact RA could have brought several burner phones and required his victims to record their POV.
Disturbing, Disgusting but absolutely a possibility.
JMO

 

[zh0r4]

I wonder if there were any fingerprints on Libby's phone. Even her own. I doubt it.

Hypothetically speaking, if the girls were not there all night, but were brought back in the wee hours of the morning, and the phone was intentionally left by the killers, what would be the purpose in powering the phone on (hence the ping) instead of just leaving it powered off? Thinking as a criminal I mean...why would they do that?

IMO MOO

Presumably, if you were the perp, and you intentionally left the phone, you would be an idiot to turn it back on/it would be an error. Maybe you realized Libby had the phone and turned it off at the CS; but realistically, any criminal with more than 2 brain cells would destroy the phone (smash it with a hammer, throw it in a deep body of water).

If we are talking about geofencing radius maybe they transported the bodies outside of that area/radius; still, the sim data would ping the towers and this would show the general path of the phone. This is why it is such a huge piece of evidence.

It never made sense to me the phone was found under one of the girls. If girl 1 was unclothed and the other girl was dressed in girl 1’s clothes, there’s zero chance the perp didn’t find the phone. Why not destroy it? Especially if there’s a video of you on the phone and the phone tracks your movements? It makes zero sense.

JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

I hope the P confronts any still-troubling questions absolutely head on at the trial. No silly dances, no pussyfooting, no “What? I can’t hear you.”

Otherwise, I really feel for the jurors. Two girls are dead. The wrong man might be convicted. A killer might go free. Don’t put me there if both sides are visibly pulling every trick in the book.

 

[TTF14]

Presumably, if you were the perp, and you intentionally left the phone, you would be an idiot to turn it back on/it would be an error. Maybe you realized Libby had the phone and turned it off at the CS; but realistically, any criminal with more than 2 brain cells would destroy the phone (smash it with a hammer, throw it in a deep body of water).

If we are talking about geofencing radius maybe they transported the bodies outside of that area/radius; still, the sim data would ping the towers and this would show the general path of the phone. This is why it is such a huge piece of evidence.

It never made sense to me the phone was found under one of the girls. If girl 1 was unclothed and the other girl was dressed in girl 1’s clothes, there’s zero chance the perp didn’t find the phone. Why not destroy it? Especially if there’s a video of you on the phone and the phone tracks your movements? It makes zero sense.

JMO

Exactly! This leads me to believe evidence was planted on the phone. Evidence the perp(s), for some reason, wanted LE to see. And by "evidence" I mean staged evidence to make LE look "that way" instead of "this way."

IMO MOO

 

[layer]

My issue is phones do not always equal people. One person could have brought several phones.
In fact RA could have brought several burner phones...

Yes yes yes!
We have to be very careful about interpreting this stuff. It's easy to mischaracterize and manipulate data that is not easily or already understood. In fact, one of my fears is that something like that is exactly what happened here - RA was "cleared" by misinterpreted cell data when he obviously shouldn't have been (at least without further investigation). This, and DNA are the bleeding edges of (known) investigative techniques now days. I like to think it makes the sickos live in fear but I doubt it does.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Exactly! This leads me to believe evidence was planted on the phone. Evidence the perp(s), for some reason, wanted LE to see. And by "evidence" I mean staged evidence to make LE look "that way" instead of "this way."

IMO MOO

This would mean the victims would have been privy to the plan to stage an abduction since they they are also included in the video being abducted. Is this what you are insinuating? The victims agreed to be in a hoax to frame a CVS employee and it went wrong?

Im confused here.
JMO

 

[WildHuncher]

If we are talking about geofencing radius maybe they transported the bodies outside of that area/radius; still, the sim data would ping the towers and this would show the general path of the phone. This is why it is such a huge piece of evidence.

I seem to recall the coroner had determined the girls were posed at the scene but not transported post-mortem. They can generally tell if a body has been shipped around significantly. Changes to the lividity pattern, etc.

 

[layer]

Exactly! This leads me to believe evidence was planted on the phone. Evidence the perp(s), for some reason, wanted LE to see. And by "evidence" I mean staged evidence to make LE look "that way" instead of "this way."

I'm going to need a lot of help to go in on that.
I'm amenable if you want to lay out exactly why you think that.

 

[girlhasnoname]

One thing about the phones, I think it depends on which phone we're talking about. They should know every single detail about Libby's phone: on/off/airplane modes, battery status, specific time/date logs etc... because they have the actual phone at the contemporaneous time. For all we know the battery wasn't even dead when it was found, it could have been in some kind of apple hibernation mode. And we would know of pedos, norsemen, goldilocks or unknowns interacting with that phone as well, especially when you combine what you have from the physical phone with what is out there in the inter-verse that traces to accounts associated with that phone. In other words, that phone is a gold mine.
Between Delphi and Moscow I hope to learn a great deal more about cell phone tracking, tower dumps, geofencing, GPS, and what was and wasn't possible in 2017 and 2022. I never really looked at this stuff before the Adnan Syed deal.

Yes, the experts will explain it to the jury like they are 5 yo. Just like in the recent Murdaugh trial, which I was grateful for because when it comes to that type of technology I am 5 yo.

moo

 

[TTF14]

I'm going to need a lot of help to go in on that.
I'm amenable if you want to lay out exactly why you think that.

I feel very confident my post would be deleted if I did that .

IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

I seem to recall the coroner had determined the girls were posed at the scene but not transported post-mortem. They can generally tell if a body has been shipped around significantly. Changes to the lividity pattern, etc.

The coroner was young and not a medical professional IIRC. Even the coroner in the Daybell case, who had (IIRC) 20 years of EMS experience before she was elected as coroner, got it wrong, way wrong, initially with regard to Tammy Daybell. Personally, I only care about what the M.E. says, not the coroner. I also don't recall the coroner saying that, although I could definitely be wrong.

IMO MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Presumably, if you were the perp, and you intentionally left the phone, you would be an idiot to turn it back on/it would be an error. Maybe you realized Libby had the phone and turned it off at the CS; but realistically, any criminal with more than 2 brain cells would destroy the phone (smash it with a hammer, throw it in a deep body of water).

If we are talking about geofencing radius maybe they transported the bodies outside of that area/radius; still, the sim data would ping the towers and this would show the general path of the phone. This is why it is such a huge piece of evidence.

It never made sense to me the phone was found under one of the girls. If girl 1 was unclothed and the other girl was dressed in girl 1’s clothes, there’s zero chance the perp didn’t find the phone. Why not destroy it? Especially if there’s a video of you on the phone and the phone tracks your movements? It makes zero sense.

JMO

None of the mistakes these killers make that lead to their eventual arrest make sense thank goodness. I don't believe RA knew he had been filmed by Libby. I think he was so caught up in the sick perverse actions, he let the clock run down.

When he heard Libby's Dad either calling her phone or shouting her name looking for the girls, he panicked and fled on County Road N300.

jmo

 

[layer]

I hope the P confronts any still-troubling questions absolutely head on at the trial. No silly dances, no pussyfooting, no “What? I can’t hear you.”
Otherwise, I really feel for the jurors. Two girls are dead. The wrong man might be convicted. A killer might go free. Don’t put me there if both sides are visibly pulling every trick in the book.

So let's just allot a couple of weeks for the whole fiasco. What can go wrong here? You said it: I want a nice clean fight. The stakes are high, the world is watching. This isn't life and death, this is death and death.

 

[arielilane]

@NewsyBarbara

#Delphi Judge Diener who signed warrant for Richard Allen’s home has suddenly resigned. He notified state yesterday that he was leaving effective immediately. Diener recused himself from case after moving Allen to DOC custody in 11/22.


10:10 AM · May 1, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785673246098051305

 

[TL4S]

I have not been following the thread, so I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I have a question in regards to the 4:33 am phone ping. Let's say the cell phone got wet during the creek crossing. Maybe not necessarily fully submerged, but just some water on it, or got wet under L's shoe on the ground. Something like that.

Without it being turned off, could some water have gotten inside and affected the function of the phone at the last ping around 5-6 pm on the 13th, then due to drying or movement of water within the phone, was able to function enough for the ping to work at 4:33 am? Any electronic people here who might know?

 

[Salah11]

None of the mistakes these killers make that lead to their eventual arrest make sense thank goodness. I don't believe RA knew he had been filmed by Libby. I think he was so caught up in the sick perverse actions, he let the clock run down.

When he heard Libby's Dad either calling her phone or shouting her name looking for the girls, he panicked and fled on County Road N300.

jmo

I wonder how often he had walked across the bridge in the past. Because as a Kid I would have walked that a million times over and not even given it a thought in the world it was sketchy with no barriers. When you reach your 30’s I suddenly look at it and think “hell no”.

So the fact he was old and overweight I can understand why he would be watching his steps -and looking down instead of looking straight ahead at the girls. He knew they were trapped regardless at the end there.

Moo

 

[arielilane]

@abc7newsbayarea

Delphi murders: Prosecutors file motion to ban certain words during Richard Allen's trial
http://abc7ne.ws/3JHwnzK

Prosecutors are asking the judge to ban words like "Odinism," "cult" and "ritual killing."

They say if the defense uses those terms, it could confuse the jury.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785595092113203295

Delphi murders: Prosecutors file motion to ban certain words during Richard Allen's trial Delphi murders: Prosecutors file motion to ban certain words during Richard Allen's trialpic.twitter.com/XjBF5kv1Lb
— ABC7 News (@abc7newsbayarea) May 1, 2024

 

[TTF14]

@NewsyBarbara

#Delphi Judge Diener who signed warrant for Richard Allen’s home has suddenly resigned. He notified state yesterday that he was leaving effective immediately. Diener recused himself from case after moving Allen to DOC custody in 11/22.


10:10 AM · May 1, 2024

https://twitter.com/x/status/1785673246098051305

Wow!!

SOMETHING STINKS IN DELPHI!!!

IMO MOO