Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[girlhasnoname]

How could he have planned this when he didn’t know the girls, didn’t have any idea they’d be there that day, and there’s been zero evidence of anything connecting him with the girls?

Because RA did know the girls would be there that day at that time. I believe we'll see evidence of that presented by the State at trial.

All we've heard are the outrageous accusations and conspiracy narratives pushed out to the public by the Defense in an effort to deflect attention from RA and his many confessions. The State continued to hold their evidence close and it will be nice to see how it all fits together and paints a picture of guilty BARD for good ole' local CVS worker and pool hall buddy.

IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Agree, and it always seemed most likely to me to be a stranger/stalker/lone wolf crime. I don't know if you could find 2 or more people weird enough to leave that crime scene.

Look at the Manson murders, demented minds can't be explained.

IMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I remember, that LE (was it DC??) said, the girls were sort of "manipulated" by BG. Maybe, another term was used. In any case it didn't mean "threatened" but rather "misled with words". So his gun wasn't the main part in this encounter of BG and the girls, but some sort of a lie was. That the girls didn't escape fast enough, although they would have been able perhaps, then makes sense. When they checked the real threat, it was too late. Maybe, BG was indeed the one, who took the photo of Abby (she is looking so embarrassed, IMO) and he first played "the friendly adult", who didn't have evil in mind?
I always can only imagine fragments of what happened, not the whole thing.

Q. Do you know how the murderer was able to gain control of both girls at once?

A. It is believed by manipulation and intimidation factors.

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby agreed to answer a second set of questions from readers this week about the 2017 double homicide of Delphi Community Middle School students, Libby German and Abby Williams, who were murdered during an outing on the Delphi trails system near the Monon High...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[susane7]

I have been here since the beginning and I believe it’s a lone wolf.

The recording also points to one man. LE changed their theory as time moved on and they have so far not found any suggestions of other perpetrators or there would have been other arrests.

My only question about RA that remains about what he did that day Is ……. Did he know they was gonna be there and unfortunately due to the time that has passed and the fact he would have deleted anything incriminating and he will never admit the truth I doubt I will ever fully know that answer.

MOO

Absolutely agree. I always trough this is a lone wolf but I trough it wasn't a local. Thank god I was wrong about that because if was not a local it would be more difficult to solve. I think a predator with sick fantasies planned a trap and used a bridge as a trap. I think the victims were random but I'm not 100% sure, the timelight is tight. Usually, murders on trails are strangers on strangers killings.

I think the religious LE from a rural/small city couldn't understand how only one man could do that crime scene because they had never dealt with anything like this before and said confusing things and they investigated many things (SCAM, RL, etc). I really think this crime is simple and more simple than the most of people think.

 

[TTF14]

There is no time in a judge's life, that it isn't 'just before a trial.' And in fact, the ONLY time a judge can retire is 'just before a trial.'

Ha! True! But I said "trial" - meaning THIS trial, not "a trial." And he didn't retire. It's not as shocking as if Gull would abruptly quit, but it's still pretty shocking. Unless it's a medical issue, I think we'll be hearing more and it won't be favorable. IMO MOO

 

[TTF14]

OK, that's fair. And I have a hard time understanding how one could believe that a group of Odinists were out there at the bottom of the hill, carrying out a human sacrifice ritual, of 2 white girls, without being seen or heard, coming or going, without leaving footprints and DNA, and without any of the other large network of odinist clan members screwing it up.

Many people believe RA did this murder on his own, but there were tentacles, as they say, in terms of CSAM connections with other local characters perhaps.

I don't know if Odinists are involved or if people familiar with or influenced by Odinism wanted to make it look that way. But I can't deny that there is evidence of it as crazy as it sounds. I personally thought it was a group of people before I ever heard the word Odinist, so yeah, it's pretty unbelievable. But so is a lot of criminal behavior, like a mother killing her kid because she thought he was a zombie. Just because it's hard to believe doesn't mean we shouldn't hear evidence of it if is exists, even if it contradicts what we want to believe. We can't just say "that's just too unbelievable so I won't consider it" if there's actual evidence of it. Maybe the Odinists are just part of the group and RA is involved with them in a way we don't know about

I want to hear all the evidence, even the stuff that sounds crazy.

IMO MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Update:

05/02/2024	Motion Filed Motion to Enter Stipulated Protective Order Filed By: Allen, Richard M. Filed By: Indiana Department of Correction File Stamp: 05/01/2024
05/02/2024	Hearing Scheduling Activity Hearing scheduled for 05/07/2024 at 9:00 AM.
05/07/2024	Hearing Session: 05/07/2024 9:00 AM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: Motions Hearing to be held in Allen County

 

[FromGermany1]

I don't know if Odinists are involved or if people familiar with or influenced by Odinism wanted to make it look that way. But I can't deny that there is evidence of it as crazy as it sounds. I personally thought it was a group of people before I ever heard the word Odinist, so yeah, it's pretty unbelievable. But so is a lot of criminal behavior, like a mother killing her kid because she thought he was a zombie. Just because it's hard to believe doesn't mean we shouldn't hear evidence of it if is exists, even if it contradicts what we want to believe. We can't just say "that's just too unbelievable so I won't consider it" if there's actual evidence of it. Maybe the Odinists are just part of the group and RA is involved with them in a way we don't know about

I want to hear all the evidence, even the stuff that sounds crazy.

IMO MOO

Actually, I would think, that a perp tried to stage the crime scene with the signs of Odinists, if they were his enemies, not his friends in a union. IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Because RA did know the girls would be there that day at that time. I believe we'll see evidence of that presented by the State at trial.

All we've heard are the outrageous accusations and conspiracy narratives pushed out to the public by the Defense in an effort to deflect attention from RA and his many confessions. The State continued to hold their evidence close and it will be nice to see how it all fits together and paints a picture of guilty BARD for good ole' local CVS worker and pool hall buddy.

IMO

I am interested as well. I think we all want to believe that he had a connection and this is wasn’t completely random because we want to believe that teen girls can go for a walk in the middle of the day without being abducted and assaulted and killed. JMO
If there was communication before then maybe we can believe it was somehow preventable. We can teach our girls to be more aware online etc.
Unfortunately I think he had planned to trap someone for some time. I think he circled and cleared that trail often hoping to find the perfect victim(s) and opportunity. I think that was part of his thrill. A true predator in his dark mind and a helpful cvs clerk on the outside.
You just never know.
I am fine being wrong, it would mean there is more proof of prior connection despite defense saying there isn’t. More evidence.
All MOO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Q. Do you know how the murderer was able to gain control of both girls at once?

A. It is believed by manipulation and intimidation factors.

Sheriff Leazenby continues to answer double homicide questions - Carroll County Comet

Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby agreed to answer a second set of questions from readers this week about the 2017 double homicide of Delphi Community Middle School students, Libby German and Abby Williams, who were murdered during an outing on the Delphi trails system near the Monon High...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

He couldn’t say “Gun,zip ties and gags” without serious fallout to the investigation.
LE are just doing their job when they don’t give detailed answers.JMO

 

[layer]

He couldn’t say “Gun,zip ties and gags” without serious fallout to the investigation.
LE are just doing their job when they don’t give detailed answers.JMO

I think it was probably pretty accurate. For one perp to gain control of 2 girls almost certainly involved some type of patter/ruse/manipulation, followed by threats and possibly restraints once deemed out of range of trail visitors.

 

[Jade]

I'm trying to figure out how to say this without sounding rude. I'm having a hard time understanding how anyone who has followed this crime closely thinks this was a lone wolf situation. Is it just that they only read MSM articles (which often take great liberty with "sources say" and don't quote LE directly/verbatim)? Do they watch the videos of interviews with LE (before a gag order) and really listen to what they're saying? Are they not reading the court documents and/or listening to experts reviewing them/explaining them? Maybe I'm just too obsessed with the case and its details, but I really just don't see how to make a lone wolf scenario work in my head.

They've said things like "complicated" "tentacles" "hope I can tell the story someday"..... Richard Allen has two arms and two legs....not tentacles.

IMO MOO

Because many of us have followed these cases and courts for a long time and know better than a complex scheme. Not saying it never happens but more times, time after time, it’s a lone child predator.

I don’t see who could think otherwise obviously don’t they read the threads and follow the many many cases of lone stranger abductions of children.

I really don’t see where RA accomplished any great physical feats.

To mentally where it’s needed to be so depraved, well, it’s said that RA was a really quiet guy. Does a lot of just in his head thinking, I reckon.

The crime of abducting them from the bridge was simple. He scared two young sweet girls who have been protected, loved and taught to respect. Their frame of reference for such an actual potential outcome to be reality in their little community was low, imo.

It’s the acting out of the fantasies like the girls were dolls, taking his time to play in an isolated site, that it becomes more personal, more intimate indicating a warped loner, imo.

So often we see these child predators throw away their normal side of life for just a few minutes with a child.

Ole Rick he’s a thinker he made sure he had alone time to play, imo.



all imo

 

[WildHuncher]

And it was a goddam bluff. Crazy as he must be, I doubt he shoots.

 

[layer]

And it was a goddam bluff. Crazy as he must be, I doubt he shoots.

I simply do not believe a gun is required to intimidate 2 young girls. If the killer had a gun at all, my suspicion is that it was for use on a nosy landowner that interrupted the plan. At which time I would have fully expected him to shoot, if needed. I know this goes against the company line...

 

[Cyber sleuth]

I simply do not believe a gun is required to intimidate 2 young girls. If the killer had a gun at all, my suspicion is that it was for use on a nosy landowner that interrupted the plan. At which time I would have fully expected him to shoot, if needed. I know this goes against the company line...

I don’t believe gun would be necessary. As discussed earlier people with box cutters took down the planes on 911. Outnumbered 10/1.
But I do believe a gun was used to abduct and intimidate the girls in this crime…
I believe it can be seen on the outline of his jacket on the video. I believe in early releases of the “down the hill “ audio you could hear the gun being cocked.
I also believe the full video shows RA pulling the gun and pointing it at the girls. And cocking it.
But finding evidence from a gun at the crime scene and matching it to RA wraps it up pretty nicely for me. I don’t have any doubt.
All my Opinion
Edit : discovered to my horror I used “intimate” instead of “intimidate”.

 

[Jade]

I simply do not believe a gun is required to intimidate 2 young girls. If the killer had a gun at all, my suspicion is that it was for use on a nosy landowner that interrupted the plan. At which time I would have fully expected him to shoot, if needed. I know this goes against the company line...

I agree is probably not too hard to trick two innocent young girls into compliance but there is potentially information indicating a gun was brandished at the start of the crime.

There is more of Liberty’s recording so we won’t know that evidence until Court.

[…]
State police say more audio from Libby German's cell phone was played for the victims' families, including a mention of a man they noticed behind them.

Police say the girls mostly talk about "stuff girls talk about" in the recording, but they also mention the man.
[…]

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family

[...]
recording from Libby German’s phone lasted 43 seconds, a fraction of which has been made public.
[…]

Search warrant: Delphi killer took souvenir, may have ‘staged’ murder scene

[…]
Allen confirmed to the police he owns guns, the document said.

A search warrant was executed at his home on Oct. 13, 2022, the document said. Officers found knives and guns, including a Sig Sauer, Model P226, .40-caliber pistol, the document said.

Indiana State Police's lab analysis of Allen's gun "determined the unspent round located within two feet" of one of the girl's bodies "had been cycled through Richard M. Allen's Sig Sauer Model P226," the probable cause affidavit said.

Allen voluntarily spoke to police on Oct. 26, 2022, and said he never allowed anyone to borrow that gun, the document said.
[…]

Police: Delphi murder victims spoke of man behind them in audio played for family


all imo

 

[Salah11]

I don’t believe gun would be necessary. As discussed earlier people with box cutters took down the planes on 911. Outnumbered 10/1.
But I do believe a gun was used to abduct and intimate the girls in this crime…
I believe it can be seen on the outline of his jacket on the video. I believe in early releases of the “down the hill “ audio you could hear the gun being cocked.
I also believe the full video shows RA pulling the gun and pointing it at the girls. And cocking it.
But finding evidence from a gun at the crime scene and matching it to RA wraps it up pretty nicely for me. I don’t have any doubt.
All my Opinion

Yep a gun is heard I believe on the audio and low and behold RA’s unspent bullet from his gun is found near the bodies. But we are meant to believe it’s odinists

Imo

 

[TTF14]

Because many of us have followed these cases and courts for a long time and know better than a complex scheme. Not saying it never happens but more times, time after time, it’s a lone child predator.

I don’t see who could think otherwise obviously don’t they read the threads and follow the many many cases of lone stranger abductions of children.

I really don’t see where RA accomplished any great physical feats.

To mentally where it’s needed to be so depraved, well, it’s said that RA was a really quiet guy. Does a lot of just in his head thinking, I reckon.

The crime of abducting them from the bridge was simple. He scared two young sweet girls who have been protected, loved and taught to respect. Their frame of reference for such an actual potential outcome to be reality in their little community was low, imo.

It’s the acting out of the fantasies like the girls were dolls, taking his time to play in an isolated site, that it becomes more personal, more intimate indicating a warped loner, imo.

So often we see these child predators throw away their normal side of life for just a few minutes with a child.

Ole Rick he’s a thinker he made sure he had alone time to play, imo.



all imo

Yes, it usually is a lone perp, but not always. Look at Victoria Stafford's horrific murder. Or Victoria Martens. Or the Daybell kids. Lyric and Elizabeth.

Taking his time to play in an isolated site? He was in and out in a flash if we're to believe the timeline.

IMO MOO

 

[EOA]

I was looking up why a phone would ping and then not ping if it's in the same location and something interesting noted was if there were a lot of phones in the area it could interfere with signal. We know there were searches into the night for the girls. Perhaps after the ping attempt in the 5:45pm time frame there were so many searchers flooding the area that it messed up the ability to get a ping on Libby's phone?

Also weather in the area can mess up pinging a phone. I would be curious if the weather was more cloudy from 5pm on and the combo of cloudy skies, the phone being under something and the amount of phones in the area while searchers were looking for the girls just messed up the ability to ping it?

IMO not a possibility of too many people in the area - not when comparing the # of searchers (in the hundreds) spread out over several miles to the number of people (say 80,000) in heavy density at a large outdoor concert or major sporting event.

MOO is a small possibility that a deer or other larger animal in the woods (hence possible animal hair dna) could’ve followed a scent to the bodies and while poking around may have jostled a body slightly such that the the pings suddenly stopped or suddenly started - but since the starting/stopping = 2 separate acts, it’s a huge reach to presume animals accounted for both occurrences.

 

[susiQ]

Actually, I would think, that a perp tried to stage the crime scene with the signs of Odinists, if they were his enemies, not his friends in a union. IMO

This would make sense if BH was trying to frame PW. Afterall, BH, according to his ex AH, told her that PW and his “crew” committed the murder and if she keeps asking questions he can’t protect her! Say what!? On top of that, BH and PW, formerly good friends worshipping Norse pagan gods, had a falling out over a ritual. However, neither agrees on the reason for the falling out. PW has a completely different story. Doesn’t surprise me.
FM pg 99

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