Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

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this is all just my opinion,

With the recent info about pings coming out I am very curious to see the entirety of the evidence. Libby’s family said in interviews “the phone stopped ringing through” after DG called it a 3rd time.

Libby’s father stated during an interview late at night on February 13,2017 or very early morning February 14, 2017 that Libby’s phone was “bouncing all over town”

<modsnip: rumors are not allowed>

I believe there is more that one suspect, I believe they didn’t know they were photographed. I believe they were after Abby’s phone. I believe they took the girls to a barn or shed near where the girls were murdered on February 13th. I believe they were brought to the crime scene (most likely from < 200 yards away) sometime between 2-5 am on the 14th and that is when they were murdered. I believe the suspect(s) turned Libby’s phone back on right after they staged the crime scene and before they left and put it in Libby’s shoe underneath Abby’s body so that no light could be seen coming from it if it were to be called. Again, I believe they had no idea they had been filmed and took Abby’s phone because of what she refused to erase (Libby had factory reset her phone that week)

All jmo
Ok but when did we hear Abby ever had a phone? Why leave LG’s phone under Abby?? Why take the two small kids away and then return them later when people were out searching?
 
Does anyone believe the phone was just missed by the killer? That when he staged the scene by moving the kids around and redressed them that he just did not notice the phone under the shoe, under AW's body?? I feel like that was somehow intentional. Why a shoe under a body in the first place? Specifically under her back, left side. I could believe the shoe just happened to be where it was when AW ended up on top of it, but with a phone under it??? That seems quite deliberate to me on the part of the killer, no?

Delphi murders: What happened to Abigail Williams and Libby German? (Phone found under AW's body).

Adobe Acrobat
(Franks Motion #1 - shoe found under AW's body and the phone was found UNDER the shoe).
IF L’s phone was in fact just missed by the killer(s), the only 2 explanations IMO would be that either…L was carrying 2 phones that day, as speculated by some other sleuthers, and the perp(s) took what they believed was the only phone, not realizing a second existed… or that the physical murderer(s) were different than the perp escorting A & L down the hill who saw them using a phone to take pics, and the CS murderers believed that BG had already collected phones or that possibly the girls didn’t have phones since one wasn’t found on A.

Otherwise we’re left with either a really stupid blunder by the perp(s) or the idea that the perp(s) wanted the phone found.
 
I don’t believe gun would be necessary. As discussed earlier people with box cutters took down the planes on 911. Outnumbered 10/1.
But I do believe a gun was used to abduct and intimidate the girls in this crime…
I believe it can be seen on the outline of his jacket on the video. I believe in early releases of the “down the hill “ audio you could hear the gun being cocked.
I also believe the full video shows RA pulling the gun and pointing it at the girls. And cocking it.
But finding evidence from a gun at the crime scene and matching it to RA wraps it up pretty nicely for me. I don’t have any doubt.
There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.
 
Are you saying that the perp(s) may have been trying to frame someone? Anyone in particular or just someone in general? Is it possible that LG was required to record AW walking towards her on the bridge with BG behind them and the DTH remark for some reason? Could that have been staged and set up by the BG? I'd like to know, how steady is the original video of the approach of BG? EG: are LG's hands shaking? Would we be able to tell if they were based on the recording? Were their voices audible on the recording? Were their voices normal? Panicky?
IF any framing occurred (IMO possible but in the category like everything else in this case of highly unlikely but we’ve already seen stranger things) it would not have knowingly involved A&L as you speculate above nor knowingly involved BG either, but would’ve occurred something like this;
Again MOO thinking way outside the box..
1) L takes short 43-second video of BG, her being spooked/suspicious by his nearby presence on bridge
2) L stops the video when for whatever reason, after a short conversation with the man her fears are relieved
3) A & L voluntarily descend the hill without BG…whether to meet a_shots, seek alternate route to avoid a bridge re-cross, go a different direction than BG is going, or other unbeknownst reason
4) A & L encounter peril at the hill’s bottom - either someone(s) waiting for them to expectedly arrive or they surprise a group conducting other illegal business
5) perp(s) pull L’s phone, examine it, and to their good fortune discover a video in the last hour of a rather unusual encounter near the end of the bridge
6) after perhaps some editing/splicing, they purposefully leave the phone where it will be found - insinuating this guy in the video will be suspect #1
All MOO
 
IF L’s phone was in fact just missed by the killer(s), the only 2 explanations IMO would be that either…L was carrying 2 phones that day, as speculated by some other sleuthers, and the perp(s) took what they believed was the only phone, not realizing a second existed… or that the physical murderer(s) were different than the perp escorting A & L down the hill who saw them using a phone to take pics, and the CS murderers believed that BG had already collected phones or that possibly the girls didn’t have phones since one wasn’t found on A.

Otherwise we’re left with either a really stupid blunder by the perp(s) or the idea that the perp(s) wanted the phone found.


I can imagine that perpetrating such a crime is taxing no matter how much it has been anticipated and planned.

Having just abducted then manually killed with a sharp item two girls and with a mind to toying around with the girls even the most meticulous could overlook a technical aspect that needed to be dealt with being simply too busy otherwise.


all imo
 
Rightly so---a young father and Air Force officer killed himself over the mess resulting from the total lack of accountability the defense took in protecting those documents.

They were responsible for the sensitive death photos of two young girls, which should have been kept locked up when not in use. InsteAd they were left out on a table in an unlocked, unsupervised conference room.

I totally understand the judge's disdain in this situation.
This possibly had a role in his suicide. I believe it likely did. However, we don't know what his mental health history was like. He could have had suicidal ideation going on for weeks, months or even years before he finally did it. We're not told if he had any prior attempts either. It would be neat and tidy to say he suicided because he was in receipt of the leaked info and police asked him for an interview but there may be far more to it. Far more than even just his being in receipt and asked for an interview - who knows what he may have known about the crime or the perp or why MW opted to send this particular person the info? I can't give full credit to the leak for RF's suicide with so little other information available to us.

In regards to the access of the material at the office by MW - I don't know that I believe this was the fault of the D team. We're told that AB was IN the general office and was on a call. What reason did he have to secure the room in which the materials were being kept unless he KNEW someone was going to a) visit his office, AND (b) enter that room? I think he has some plausible deniability here sadly. MW had an end goal in that action - whether it was to leak information (being a jerk), to spook someone into talking or running? I have no idea what the end goal was - notoriety for being an informant to social media connected people? No idea. But I doubt it was hey RF, have a crime scene photo because its cool. Know what I mean? At least I HOPE that wasn't his sole reason. Funny he was only charge with misdemeanor theft though!
 
1. No need to even have a gun in order to commit this crime.
2. A Sig P226 never needs to be cocked, some 226 models can't even be cocked.
3. No need to ever rack the slide and eject incriminating evidence onto the ground.
The gun makes no sense to me. When you add in the virtually useless comparisons on the unspent cartridge as the starring figure in the PCA, the whole thing gets fishy at some point. If they have good solid evidence they should just skip straight to that at trial. This stuff will only do harm to their case.
JMHO
 
IF any framing occurred (IMO possible but in the category like everything else in this case of highly unlikely but we’ve already seen stranger things) it would not have knowingly involved A&L as you speculate above nor knowingly involved BG either, but would’ve occurred something like this;
Again MOO thinking way outside the box..
1) L takes short 43-second video of BG, her being spooked/suspicious by his nearby presence on bridge
2) L stops the video when for whatever reason, after a short conversation with the man her fears are relieved
3) A & L voluntarily descend the hill without BG…whether to meet a_shots, seek alternate route to avoid a bridge re-cross, go a different direction than BG is going, or other unbeknownst reason
4) A & L encounter peril at the hill’s bottom - either someone(s) waiting for them to expectedly arrive or they surprise a group conducting other illegal business
5) perp(s) pull L’s phone, examine it, and to their good fortune discover a video in the last hour of a rather unusual encounter near the end of the bridge
6) after perhaps some editing/splicing, they purposefully leave the phone where it will be found - insinuating this guy in the video will be suspect #1
All MOO

Reads like a murder novel.
 
There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.
He’s using it for the threat value and not as the weapon it really is. TV and movies are always showing the cops and the perps racking the slide just before the action gets serious. Some people actually do carry with an empty chamber, although this practice has been compared to thinking you’ll have time to buckle your seat belt before the crash. TV and movies perpetuate really silly ideas about handguns. They frequently show the hammer being drawn back as a threat on weapons that are never thumb-cocked in normal, sane use.

I’ll agree that the racking of the slide on one semiauto probably sounds about like that of another, but it’s a fairly distinct “Schlick schlock.” No, you can’t tell a Sig from a Glock, or I couldn’t. In a context where someone is saying “Gun” and at least one round is known to have been ejected unspent, it’s not a great leap that what sounds like a slide racking probably is.
 
IF any framing occurred (IMO possible but in the category like everything else in this case of highly unlikely but we’ve already seen stranger things) it would not have knowingly involved A&L as you speculate above nor knowingly involved BG either, but would’ve occurred something like this;
Again MOO thinking way outside the box..
1) L takes short 43-second video of BG, her being spooked/suspicious by his nearby presence on bridge
2) L stops the video when for whatever reason, after a short conversation with the man her fears are relieved
3) A & L voluntarily descend the hill without BG…whether to meet a_shots, seek alternate route to avoid a bridge re-cross, go a different direction than BG is going, or other unbeknownst reason
4) A & L encounter peril at the hill’s bottom - either someone(s) waiting for them to expectedly arrive or they surprise a group conducting other illegal business
5) perp(s) pull L’s phone, examine it, and to their good fortune discover a video in the last hour of a rather unusual encounter near the end of the bridge
6) after perhaps some editing/splicing, they purposefully leave the phone where it will be found - insinuating this guy in the video will be suspect #1
All MOO
Love reading your posts, why don't you post more often?
 
I’ll agree that the racking of the slide on one semiauto probably sounds about like that of another, but it’s a fairly distinct “Schlick schlock.” No, you can’t tell a Sig from a Glock, or I couldn’t. In a context where someone is saying “Gun” and at least one round is known to have been ejected unspent, it’s not a great leap that what sounds like a slide racking probably is.
Well, first the OP didn't say the audio recorded the sound of the slide racking, they said it recorded the sound of a gun being cocked. Second, if the slide was racked on audio there should be an ejected round back up at the top of the hill, not over on RL's property.

Eta: I'll see if I can find a good source to explain how these SA/DA cocked & locked semi-autos function. If you have used a Beretta M9 or 92FS it's very similar. Basically you insert a loaded mag, rack the slide, engage the safety, holster, and start your mission. If you encounter trouble along the way you draw, disengage the safety, aim and pull the trigger. No cocking, no racking, no fiddling. RA as a military man would know all that and more. I would bet he fired a M9 for the Guard as a primary sidearm thousands of times.
 
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"Unique Contempt" How did I miss that one?! Is that something Nick made up?

She could have kept her decision sealed until after the trial was over, couldn't she?

My opinion on JG's findings is she took the Ausbrook filing seriously but just couldn't walk away from the contempt charge empty-handed. After the show she and Nick put on, she almost had to do something = all else failed so let's take a final shot at them via the Board.

I wonder how the P is feeling about her decision.
Yes, the P seems to have coined "unique contempt".

The Court had a variety of options for publicizing the decision and surely deliberately decided how to present it.

IMO, the Court acknowledged Ausbrook's filing and chose to keep the issue under her Court's control rather than referring it to a special judge. And now the Court has pushed the issue to the regulatory branch. I feel that the pushing the ethics review/sanctions on to a regulatory branch directly overseen by the SCOIN - was fully intentional.

There's at least 3 battles going on with this hearing and the issues therein, IMO.
(Gull v Scoin, Gull v D, and P v D.) And a fourth on the fringe - Westerman v State.

IMO, I'd not be surprised if the D also refers this same case for review as to Court and Prosecution ethical issues that were in evidence in this same hearing. I would think the P and the Court realize the scrutiny on their own actions in this matter continues.

At least it's out of the public eye ... for now.
 
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There is no way the sound of a Sig P226 being cocked is going to be identifiable on audio. It would sound like a very small twig snapping. Not much different from switching the safety off or on.
Furthermore, there is no reason to have cocked it, zero, just like there is no reason to rack the slide. Unless RA had absolutely no knowledge of how his own firearm functions or how to operate it, in which case he'd have been better off leaving it at home. I just can't make sense of it. Personally, it's even more stupefying than leaving a phone with your picture on it at the crime scene.

I don’t recall that anyone said that an exact kind of gun can be identified by just the sound on the video.

It would be the collaborating evidence about the gun such of any sight of it on Liberty’s video, mention by the girls of “a gun” along with the sound and the additional evidence of the bullet from RA’s gun at the crime scene.

The cocking and racking are the scary gun sounds made in order to gain compliance.

If a stranger approached me with a gun when I was in a vulnerable position any cocking, racking, or sound or movement would be terrifying.

Now low and behold the bullet from the crime scene is from the very gun RA, admitted bridge walker, has at home and never loaned or been to the scene so he says.

I can’t make sense as to why a man would abduct and hands on murder then perv out over two young girls so using a gun which appears to be quite effective seems in line with the rest of this crime.


all imo
 
Well, first the OP didn't say the audio recorded the sound of the slide racking, they said it recorded the sound of a gun being cocked. Second, if the slide was racked on audio there should be an ejected round back up at the top of the hill, not over on RL's property.
Racking the slide IS cocking the gun. (Yes, it does other things, too.) The girls probably had to be menaced more than once. And he really doesn’t want to fire that thing. It’s loud.
 
Racking the slide IS cocking the gun. (Yes, it does other things, too.) The girls probably had to be menaced more than once. And he really doesn’t want to fire that thing. It’s loud.
This is a single/double action firearm. It has a hammer, not a striker like a Glock. When you initially rack the slide to load a round into the chamber, it also cocked the hammer. The hammer can remain cocked (and locked if you engage the safety), or you can decock it (there is an actual de-cocker on the P226). Once decocked, you can still pull the trigger and gun go boom. It is double action, like a revolver. Or, you can '*advertiser censored*' the hammer and then pull the trigger and gun go boom, but in single action (meaning easier trigger pull, more acurate shot).
 
I don't know if Odinists are involved or if people familiar with or influenced by Odinism wanted to make it look that way. But I can't deny that there is evidence of it as crazy as it sounds. I personally thought it was a group of people before I ever heard the word Odinist, so yeah, it's pretty unbelievable. But so is a lot of criminal behavior, like a mother killing her kid because she thought he was a zombie. Just because it's hard to believe doesn't mean we shouldn't hear evidence of it if is exists, even if it contradicts what we want to believe. We can't just say "that's just too unbelievable so I won't consider it" if there's actual evidence of it. Maybe the Odinists are just part of the group and RA is involved with them in a way we don't know about

I want to hear all the evidence, even the stuff that sounds crazy.

IMO MOO

Clips are from the above post.

“…it's pretty unbelievable. But so is a lot of criminal behavior, like a mother killing her kid because she thought he was a zombie.”

Unbelievable, like a seemingly run of the mill CVS employee and family man herding two young girls across a creek in broad daylight and savagely killing them.

“Just because it's hard to believe doesn't mean we shouldn't hear evidence of it…”

Totally agree. I just want to hear it in court, with all the trappings around it to support what is being said. I want presented evidence to be cross examined thoroughly. I want way more than loosely worded footnotes. I want to hear both sides argued. I want the judge to require both sides to behave so as not to distract from what is important.
 
I am interested as well. I think we all want to believe that he had a connection and this is wasn’t completely random because we want to believe that teen girls can go for a walk in the middle of the day without being abducted and assaulted and killed. JMO
If there was communication before then maybe we can believe it was somehow preventable. We can teach our girls to be more aware online etc.
Unfortunately I think he had planned to trap someone for some time. I think he circled and cleared that trail often hoping to find the perfect victim(s) and opportunity. I think that was part of his thrill. A true predator in his dark mind and a helpful cvs clerk on the outside.
You just never know.
I am fine being wrong, it would mean there is more proof of prior connection despite defense saying there isn’t. More evidence.
All MOO
I say that because the odds of RA arriving at approx 1:47 and Libby & Abby arriving minutes later, along with the fact that RA walked with 'purpose, head down, hands in pockets, on a mission' from the Freedom Bridge towards the MHB and caught up to them within minutes seems just too coincidental to me. I may be wrong also.

RA is still a predator either way and very well may have wanted to commit this crime for some time. It's a truly horrible and demented mind that would leave those young BFFs gruesomely murdered like that.

MOO
 
This is a single/double action firearm. It has a hammer, not a striker like a Glock. When you initially rack the slide to load a round into the chamber, it also cocked the hammer. The hammer can remain cocked (and locked if you engage the safety), or you can de-*advertiser censored* it (there is an actual de-cocker on the P226). Once decocked, you can still pull the trigger and gun go boom. It is double action, like a revolver. Or, you can *advertiser censored* the hammer and then pull the trigger and gun go boom, but in single action (meaning easier trigger pull, more acurate shot).
Irrelevant. He’s scaring two teenage girls who he presumes not to know how his Sig works.
 
Well, first the OP didn't say the audio recorded the sound of the slide racking, they said it recorded the sound of a gun being cocked. Second, if the slide was racked on audio there should be an ejected round back up at the top of the hill, not over on RL's property.

Eta: I'll see if I can find a good source to explain how these SA/DA cocked & locked semi-autos function. If you have used a Beretta M9 or 92FS it's very similar. Basically you insert a loaded mag, rack the slide, engage the safety, holster, and start your mission. If you encounter trouble along the way you draw, disengage the safety, aim and pull the trigger. No cocking, no racking, no fiddling. RA as a military man would know all that and more. I would bet he fired a M9 for the Guard as a primary sidearm thousands of times.

Its Not uncommon to have the gun uncocked while carrying. People have a fear of walking with a gun cocked and locked. Your premise falls flat imo
 
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