Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[layer]

It doesn't have to match only your theory regarding the sig. It could have happened differently

Absolutely! I didn't even know I had a theory.

 

[WildHuncher]

All of a sudden I'm wondering if the gun itself was the ruse. "Hey girls, want to check this out?"

My money is on “Guys… Down the hill!”

 

[layer]

My money is on “Guys… Down the hill!”

Well we know that was said. But that does nothing to explain all this gun nonsense.

Eta: Just to clarify: He could have invited them to hold the gun, "here, I'll unload it first!" showed them how it cycled rounds, how the mag goes in and out, and then... turned it on them.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Well we know that was said. But that does nothing to explain all this gun nonsense.

Eta: Just to clarify: He could have invited them to hold the gun, "here, I'll unload it first!" showed them how it cycled rounds, how the mag goes in and out, and then... turned it on them.

Yes he could have but he didn’t. Imo

 

[Megnut]

One thing to consider:

Reaction time.

BG always had the advantage.

By the time each girl processed what was happening, they were already in grave danger.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

I think the window was slammed by the time they crossed the creek.
JMHO, pure speculation and in no way saying they should or shouldn't have. What they should have done is come home safe and happy.

Thanks for that and I couldn't agree more that Abby & Libby should have been able to come home safe and happy.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Fear is crippling (deer in the headlights). Like I said, there was a window in which I believe the girls could have escaped. Maybe it's because I've seen a million slasher movies, maybe it's because I was in Hollywood the day the Sharon Tate killings happened, heck - maybe it's because I'm from Texas. Guns don't scare me at all. Knives terrify me. A gun would most likely just kill me, and in short order. But a knife...

IDK it’s sounds very victim blaming to me.
Guns are designed to kill. Just in Fort Worth Texas yesterday 6 people were shot by a lone gunman 4 of which were children. No connection no motive.
IMO RA used his gun to coerce and control the victims. Fear then isolate. He had a motive. IMO

I don’t know why we are discussing the extent of their fear or opportunities to escape. They were in fear enough to comply and they did not escape.
Because of RA.
JMO

 

[layer]

Yes he could have but he didn’t. Imo

It's a long shot, I know. It made sense to me. The facts as we know them do not. But like leaving the phone, facts are what they are, whether they make sense or not.

 

[FrostedGlass]

A couple more filings

05/02/2024	Transport Order Entered Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/01/2024
05/02/2024	Order Issued Amended order reflecting May 7, 2024 hearing date Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Noticed: McLeland, Nicholas Charles Noticed: Baldwin, Andrew Joseph Noticed: Rozzi, Bradley Anthony Noticed: Luttrull, James David JR Noticed: Diener, Stacey Lynn Noticed: Auger, Jennifer Jones Order Signed: 05/01/2024

 

[photographer4]

I don’t believe gun would be necessary. As discussed earlier people with box cutters took down the planes on 911. Outnumbered 10/1.
But I do believe a gun was used to abduct and intimidate the girls in this crime…
I believe it can be seen on the outline of his jacket on the video. I believe in early releases of the “down the hill “ audio you could hear the gun being cocked.
I also believe the full video shows RA pulling the gun and pointing it at the girls. And cocking it.
But finding evidence from a gun at the crime scene and matching it to RA wraps it up pretty nicely for me. I don’t have any doubt.
All my Opinion
Edit : discovered to my horror I used “intimate” instead of “intimidate”.

That is a big one for me too - how was his bullet at the scene if he was never at the scene before? Either he went there before the crime to scope it out and set up something and dropped a bullet, or he was there for the crime and dropped a bullet. He told LE he never loaned his gun out and that he'd never been to the property. Somewhere in here is a lie, UNLESS someone stole / borrowed his gun without him knowing and then put it back without him ever knowing which seems super doubtful to me! So he was there / somehow a part of this and if he wasn't then someone needs to explain that bullet because that is the sticking point for me and probably some jurors.

 

[Willow Knight]

CNN had a photo of RA in 2017:

or so I hear...

I remember this has been talked a lot early in the threads, I very much see, IMO, the outline of a tripod folded up inside BG's left front pants. The shape of a gun in his right front jacket pocket, the the white rope/threading appears to come from a hoodie inside his jacket. His mid area, where the lower part of his jacket appears to be filled with object/s.

All MOO

 

[photographer4]

IF any framing occurred (IMO possible but in the category like everything else in this case of highly unlikely but we’ve already seen stranger things) it would not have knowingly involved A&L as you speculate above nor knowingly involved BG either, but would’ve occurred something like this;
Again MOO thinking way outside the box..
1) L takes short 43-second video of BG, her being spooked/suspicious by his nearby presence on bridge
2) L stops the video when for whatever reason, after a short conversation with the man her fears are relieved
3) A & L voluntarily descend the hill without BG…whether to meet a_shots, seek alternate route to avoid a bridge re-cross, go a different direction than BG is going, or other unbeknownst reason
4) A & L encounter peril at the hill’s bottom - either someone(s) waiting for them to expectedly arrive or they surprise a group conducting other illegal business
5) perp(s) pull L’s phone, examine it, and to their good fortune discover a video in the last hour of a rather unusual encounter near the end of the bridge
6) after perhaps some editing/splicing, they purposefully leave the phone where it will be found - insinuating this guy in the video will be suspect #1
All MOO

An interesting theory but realistically, you've just killed two kids. YOu've stripped them nude and redressed them. Are you really going to stay around their remains just to fiddle with their phone?? Doubtful. You might take the phone and pray no one ever finds it. You might destroy it and hope nothing is on it. But are ya really gonna stay there to edit / splice etc? Are you just hoping that L had some sort of easy editing app on her phone that allows this to even be done? Do you then also imagine that if they spliced footage, the missing footage is no longer accessible on the device or the cloud to LE? Are you just hoping she didn't snap / text whatever that original off to someone else who has the original and might eventually come forward?

The theory you've posed is interesting but it doesn't seem likely to me (if the State introduces evidence to support the idea though, I could listen intently and consider whether it went down that way, sure).

 

[Willow Knight]

They weren’t necessarily trapped at the end of that bridge, there was a small gate that if they opened or hopped over and turned right would bring them directly to Abby’s home 1/4-1/2 mile away

If there was a gun involved IMO that would be the reason they felt trapped. The fear of the gun most likely forced them to obey orders and not run.

 

[zh0r4]

Reads like a murder novel.

I was actually playing along until it got past #4. Then it went off the rails for me. Maybe they should re-work it?

Personally, I believe anything is possible. I wasn’t there, so there’s no logical way for me to know exactly what happened. The more data/info, more I can speculate. In this case there isn’t a lot of clear info-there is a lot the P and D seem to disagree about. A lot of missing or lost evidence. Who knows?

JMHO

 

[photographer4]

I say that because the odds of RA arriving at approx 1:47 and Libby & Abby arriving minutes later, along with the fact that RA walked with 'purpose, head down, hands in pockets, on a mission' from the Freedom Bridge towards the MHB and caught up to them within minutes seems just too coincidental to me. I may be wrong also.

RA is still a predator either way and very well may have wanted to commit this crime for some time. It's a truly horrible and demented mind that would leave those young BFFs gruesomely murdered like that.

MOO

I was thinking about this last night - RA is in a cell, eating his disclosure, covering himself in his own crap and eating it along with "other socially undesirable behaviors" per a recent filing by his lawyers. He clearly has some major mental health issues, and there was at least one call to LE to attend his home before the arrest during or after which his wife took him to the hospital. How stable do we imagine RA is at this point and how eager would you be to live beside him with your kids if he ends up found not guilty and released back into society?

Delphi murder suspect wants prison confessions thrown out

 

[layer]

Who knows?

Quote o' the day!

 

[AugustWest]

All this talk about identifying objects through clothing would be a very hard sell to even be found relevant and admissible. You would have to find an expert who would be able to identify not only make and model of gun through clothing, but to a particular gun. You would have to find an "I can identify a tripod through clothes" expert. These types of identification would have to pass Daubert standards:

1. Whether the technique or theory in question can be, and has been tested;
2. Whether it has been subjected to publication and peer review;
3. Its known or potential error rate;
4. The existence and maintenance of standards controlling its operation; and
5. Whether it has attracted widespread acceptance within a relevant scientific community.

See: Daubert Standard

 

[WildHuncher]

All this talk about identifying objects through clothing would be a very hard sell to even be found relevant and admissible. You would have to find an expert who would be able to identify not only make and model of gun through clothing. You would have to find an "I can identify a tripod through clothes" expert. These types of identification would have to pass Daubert standards:

1. Whether the technique or theory in question can be, and has been tested;
2. Whether it has been subjected to publication and peer review;
3. Its known or potential error rate;
4. The existence and maintenance of standards controlling its operation; and
5. Whether it has attracted widespread acceptance within a relevant scientific community.

See: Daubert Standard

Or you show it to the jury and say, “Here’s another brick in the wall. Don’t look at the brick so much. Notice the wall.”

 

[AugustWest]

Or you show it to the jury and say, “Here’s another brick in the wall. Don’t look at the brick so much. Notice the wall.”

It has to be relevant and reliable to even be admitted.

 

[WildHuncher]

@AugustWest Duly noted. They’ll never see it.

But I do.