Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

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OK. I've zero knowledge of Vanessa Bryant's case. I'm simply indicating how law works.

Edit: And clearly stating that there is no such thing as a legal case simply for "negligence," as you had asserted.
Is negligence called malpractice if it concerns a professional? Or is it misfeasance when legal damage is caused due to negligence or recklessness? The word we know sometimes take on different meanings in legalese. It can confuse the layperson :rolleyes:
 
I think the warden probably ordered an evaluation? And didn't he have a cursory one upon entering the facility?
I mean RAs attorneys request the court to order.
Can't find the defense attorney for LVD's original request but this is the ruling to have her sent for 6 months of "restoration" in order to understand the trial proceedings.

MOO RA may have had an evaluation, but why would the defense want their own given the severity of RAs behaviors which they MOO disingenuously describe as "decline."


 
The rationale behind the rule is that it will discourage rigorous defense. That isn't the rule itself. The rule is simply "attorneys should not be subject to liability for defending their client." It's a common law rule that goes back to the 1300's. If there should be exceptions to the rule, then I agree they should be made by statute (laws). Which still doesn't change my statements that the attorneys in this case will likely not be held liable for breach of the gag order.
What about for libel or slander? If a citizen is dragged into another's court case and labeled a child murderer with no evidence? I just can't see how that can be a protected thing. Are there no checks and balances to prevent that from happening or can defense just say whatever they want in filings and court because it may benefit their client and not have to worry about ruining someone else's reputation? The world has changed so much as far as multimedia spreading truths but lies also. The SODDI defense now can ruin lives overnight. It just seems so unfair
 
What about for libel or slander? If a citizen is dragged into another's court case and labeled a child murderer with no evidence? I just can't see how that can be a protected thing. Are there no checks and balances to prevent that from happening or can defense just say whatever they want in filings and court because it may benefit their client and not have to worry about ruining someone else's reputation? The world has changed so much as far as multimedia spreading truths but lies also. The SODDI defense now can ruin lives overnight. It just seems so unfair

In my very limited understanding of civil law, can't anyone try to sue anyone they want? It would be their choice to sue or not, but they'd have to prove damages, and it may include them having to prove certain things they might want kept under wraps. Probably keeps a lot of people who are "accused" in the public eye of pursuing legal action (that, and it's expensive.) Even the families could, I assume, sue people for accusing them in social media, but they'd also have to prove damages and their private lives may be explored.

I could be way off in my understanding of civil law and defamation suits!

IMO MOO
 
In my very limited understanding of civil law, can't anyone try to sue anyone they want? It would be their choice to sue or not, but they'd have to prove damages, and it may include them having to prove certain things they might want kept under wraps. Probably keeps a lot of people who are "accused" in the public eye of pursuing legal action (that, and it's expensive.) Even the families could, I assume, sue people for accusing them in social media, but they'd also have to prove damages and their private lives may be explored.

I could be way off in my understanding of civil law and defamation suits!

IMO MOO
I’ve heard of plaintiffs being countersued for “frivolous litigation.” Nor sure how often this happens. ETA: Before filing a suit against my own lawyer’s advice, I’d figure on paying court costs and maybe the other party’s legal expenses when I got laughed out of court.
IANAL
 
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MOD QUESTION:

I'm assuming you all know just how few staff are part of Websleuths, right? So I'm assuming that you all know that there is no way for us to read every single thread on every single thread every single day. Right?

Would somebody PLEASE tell me why this thread is no longer about Abby & Libby but is about civil lawsuits? I've traveled back in time and feel like this whole thread is now off topic, but maybe I've missed something and it can be explained to me in 5 sentences or less.

Please be advised that some explanations are just plain not going to be sufficient, so take your time, check your work. :)
 
This reminded me of KK's search for Sandy Hook photos. Gross.

I think there's a market for these things out there and firmly believe the photos of A & L have been out there on the dark web for years, making money. IMO MOO
Yes perhaps RA has made financial gains from this as well.
Something to consider.
JMO
 
So why then was Mw charged with misdemeanour theft and not possession or distrib of CSAM?? This has never made sense to me.

I hope to not distract from the murder of Abby and Libby in this thread, so I'll hold back on most of my comments about the girls being victims of CSAM IMO. Abby and Libby's nude images were on the internet, that is CSAM to me, and after this trial I plan to be very vocal. There is a lot of information on the web from the gov. website, along with tip lines. Everyone involved with this cruel, filthy, chain of delivery from the point of the first image to the exposure on the internet needs to be investigate. Libby and Abby cannot defend them self so I will be their advocate. Abby and Libby were not only murdered, they were also exploited, IMO.
 
I hope to not distract from the murder of Abby and Libby in this thread, so I'll hold back on most of my comments about the girls being victims of CSAM IMO. Abby and Libby's nude images were on the internet, that is CSAM to me, and after this trial I plan to be very vocal. There is a lot of information on the web from the gov. website, along with tip lines. Everyone involved with this cruel, filthy, chain of delivery from the point of the first image to the exposure on the internet needs to be investigate. Libby and Abby cannot defend them self so I will be their advocate. Abby and Libby were not only murdered, they were also exploited, IMO.

As far as I know, the pics being discussed as part of "THE leak" were not of them nude, but they had bars or circles covering up intimate areas. I don't know the legal definition of CSAM, but it might not apply.

IMO MOO
 
MOD QUESTION:

I'm assuming you all know just how few staff are part of Websleuths, right? So I'm assuming that you all know that there is no way for us to read every single thread on every single thread every single day. Right?

Would somebody PLEASE tell me why this thread is no longer about Abby & Libby but is about civil lawsuits? I've traveled back in time and feel like this whole thread is now off topic, but maybe I've missed something and it can be explained to me in 5 sentences or less.

Please be advised that some explanations are just plain not going to be sufficient, so take your time, check your work. :)

Just passing time and chit chatting about related legal stuff before the trial starts.
 
MOD QUESTION:

I'm assuming you all know just how few staff are part of Websleuths, right? So I'm assuming that you all know that there is no way for us to read every single thread on every single thread every single day. Right?

Would somebody PLEASE tell me why this thread is no longer about Abby & Libby but is about civil lawsuits? I've traveled back in time and feel like this whole thread is now off topic, but maybe I've missed something and it can be explained to me in 5 sentences or less.

Please be advised that some explanations are just plain not going to be sufficient, so take your time, check your work. :)

It started when talking about Abby and Libby's families being able to bring lawsuit for the girls images being on the internet. Empathy for the families and accountability for those guilty. I speak for more than myself here, very sorry to add work for our mods.
 
MOD QUESTION:

I'm assuming you all know just how few staff are part of Websleuths, right? So I'm assuming that you all know that there is no way for us to read every single thread on every single thread every single day. Right?

Would somebody PLEASE tell me why this thread is no longer about Abby & Libby but is about civil lawsuits? I've traveled back in time and feel like this whole thread is now off topic, but maybe I've missed something and it can be explained to me in 5 sentences or less.

Please be advised that some explanations are just plain not going to be sufficient, so take your time, check your work. :)
@Knitty

The discussion revolves around potential liability of RA's defense team for violating the gag order in the instant case. It was suggested that the defense team would be civilly liable for some cause of action, such as negligent infliction of emotional distress. I answered the question by explaining the common law rule of attorney immunity doctrine and litigation privilege, and that these doctrines would likely bar any civil action.
 
What about for libel or slander? If a citizen is dragged into another's court case and labeled a child murderer with no evidence? I just can't see how that can be a protected thing. Are there no checks and balances to prevent that from happening or can defense just say whatever they want in filings and court because it may benefit their client and not have to worry about ruining someone else's reputation? The world has changed so much as far as multimedia spreading truths but lies also. The SODDI defense now can ruin lives overnight. It just seems so unfair
@sunshineray

Libel and slander are covered by the same common law principles I have previously discussed.

See: https://www.hofstralawreview.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/DD.5.Hill_.final1_.pdf

Specifically the first sentence of the introduction and the first sentence under "Applicable Claims" on pg. 404.
 
In (3), the IDOC is quoting directly from Rule 26 at (C); they put (0) but the language is exact to that found in 26(C):

Rule 26 - General provisions governing discovery, Ind. R. Trial. P. 26 (“(C) Protective orders. Upon motion by any party or by the person from whom discovery is sought, and for good cause shown, the court in which the action is pending or alternatively, on matters relating to a deposition, the court in the county where the deposition is being taken may make any order which justice requires to protect a party or person from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense, including one or more of the following:(1) that the discovery not be had;(2) that the discovery may be had only on specified terms and conditions, including a designation of the time or place;(3) that the discovery may be had only by a method of discovery other than that selected by the party seeking discovery;(4) that certain matters not be inquired into, or that the scope of the discovery be limited to certain matters;(5) that discovery be conducted with no one present except the parties and their attorneys and persons designated by the court;(6) that a deposition after being sealed be opened only by order of the court;(7) that a trade secret or other confidential research, development, or commercial information not be disclosed or be disclosed only in a designated way;(8) that the parties simultaneously file specified documents or information enclosed in sealed envelopes to be opened as directed by the court. If the motion for a protective order is denied in whole or in part, the court may, on such terms and conditions as are just, order that any party or person provide or permit discovery. The provisions of Trial Rule 37(A)(4) apply to the award of expenses incurred in relation to the motion.(9) that a party need not provide discovery of electronically stored information from sources that the party identifies as not reasonably accessible because of undue burden or cost. On motion to compel discovery or for a protective order, the party from whom discovery is sought must show that the information is not reasonably accessible because of undue burden or cost. If that showing is made, the court may nonetheless order discovery from such sources if the requesting party shows good cause. The court may specify conditions for the discovery.”)

They are saying they want a protective order that insures the information they provide will not be used in matters outside of the instant case.

Gotta run for a while, I'll answer any other questions a bit later :D
Thanks for the answer and link. That cleared up this part of the wording in the motion:
requires to protect a party or person from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense,
This other part caught my attention and I was wondering why that wording was in there? Are there settlement negotiations in a criminal case?
as well as related settlement negotiations
 
Thanks for the answer and link. That cleared up this part of the wording in the motion:
requires to protect a party or person from annoyance, embarrassment, oppression, or undue burden or expense,
This other part caught my attention and I was wondering why that wording was in there? Are there settlement negotiations in a criminal case?
as well as related settlement negotiations
@FrostedGlass

Settlement negotiations being plea bargains.
 
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