Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #183

[girlhasnoname]

Perpetrators lie and deceive:

It is likely that anyone who interviews criminals for a living will be lied to on a regular basis.
[…]

Regardless of the type of lie, the goal is the same—to intentionally mislead another person into believing something the liar knows is false. People who unknowingly provide false information do not demonstrate emotional arousal or other cues associated with deception. It is only when a lie is told knowingly and intentionally that the liar can be expected to display signs.

https://leb.fbi.gov/articles/featured-articles/the-truth-about-lying-what-investigators-need-to-know

I understand Richard Allen was in a froth at the time of the deceptive “confession” utterances.


all imo

He's been if a froth a few times from what little we know:

1) His wife called 911 in 2015 in an incident, I don't know any other reason to call 911 unless you felt your safety was an issue.

2) When Holeman was speaking to him in his last interview Oct 26th - He went nuts when he felt his wife was being mentioned "you can f$%^ with me all you want, but leave my wife out of this" RA said. I do find that statement odd and wondered if Holeman may have asked RA something suggestive to that fact.

3) He got angry and broke his tablet in his cell after his first set of confessions to his wife and mother.

4) He was tased, and as much as people want to think it was for kicks and giggles, an incident report was made, which is SOP, and it stated RA was not responding to commands. Guards, even evil Odin ones, are not going to do that for no reason, especially when the Defendant is in an open Pod and video monitored 24/7.

I think RA has a duality to him, one RA that is nasty and aggressive, especially if alcohol is involved, and one RA that is the "Aw shucks, helpful pharmacy worker and local pool playing, beer drinker at the local pub. Hiding in plain sight.

JMO

 

[TTF14]

That’s literally their job though. To defend their client vigorously. In an ideal world defense counsel would show more care and concern for victims and their loved ones but they can’t always do that and do their jobs at the same time. I don’t doubt they feel for the families. I don’t doubt this case and thoughts of the kids keeps them up at night. But their problem is to kick up whatever fuss they can in order to ensure RA gets a fair trial, is treated as well as he can be while awaiting trial, make sure his rights aren’t trampled and to try to convince the jury that RA didn’t do it. I don’t agree with everything they’ve done to date - but they seem to be doing their jobs.

Not to mention the law is about facts, not feelings. With the reputation defense attorneys have on the whole, it's surprising that one of the things criticized about them is their inferred lack of compassion for the families, as if it's unusual for them to act in a way that seems to imply that. A defense attorney who advertises their compassion for the other side probably would not have a very successful business. And may not be effective because their feelings would get in the way.

IMO MOO

 

[Salah11]

No. Just reversed her erroneous, unethical decision. A sanction would have been easier to swallow, I'm sure.

IMO MOO

Well, if we wish to talk about unethical behaviour, it doesn’t get any worse than leaving confidential files out of nude dead children for “friends” to then leak.

 

[girlhasnoname]

The only appeal that's possible is a mistrial where he will be tried again and found guilty. But we can go that route if that's what it takes. No amount of appeals will set RA free. They should take a break from Franks and fanfic and use these next few months to build a logical defense.

Well we do know RA can't appeal on ineffective counsel as per their reinstatement during the SCOIN oral arguments. That makes me smile.

MOO

 

[sunshineray]

I'll only note, thanks to the 4 Franks motions, Judge Gull would seem to be more aware of what their defence is than usual IMO. They've pretty much laid out their theory of the case, in my opionion.

MOO

Yeah that was like a schoolyard scuffle in the making, saying that to the judge

 

[sunshineray]

Rozzi also requested that in the future, there would be no security in close proximity when conferring with Allen. He opposed the fact that security was nearby in the courtroom Tuesday, but when offered the chance to speak with Allen in the sheriff’s office, the defense declined.

Delphi murder trial rescheduled for October; defense voices discontent with timeline

The trial is now slated for Oct. 14 to Nov. 15.

www.wane.com

Isn't some courtroom security always placed by defendants?

 

[photographer4]

He's been if a froth a few times from what little we know:

1) His wife called 911 in 2015 in an incident, I don't know any other reason to call 911 unless you felt your safety was an issue.

2) When Holeman was speaking to him in his last interview Oct 26th - He went nuts when he felt his wife was being mentioned "you can f$%^ with me all you want, but leave my wife out of this" RA said. I do find that statement odd and wondered if Holeman may have asked RA something suggestive to that fact.

3) He got angry and broke his tablet in his cell after his first set of confessions to his wife and mother.

4) He was tased, and as much as people want to think it was for kicks and giggles, an incident report was made, which is SOP, and it stated RA was not responding to commands. Guards, even evil Odin ones, are not going to do that for no reason, especially when the Defendant is in an open Pod and video monitored 24/7.

I think RA has a duality to him, one RA that is nasty and aggressive, especially if alcohol is involved, and one RA that is the "Aw shucks, helpful pharmacy worker and local pool playing, beer drinker at the local pub. Hiding in plain sight.

JMO

His getting all big bollocks and verbally aggressive with the officer in that meeting / interview (can’t recall which it was) struck me as weird too. That’s something I feel like guilty persons may say when they don’t want their significant others to find out who they’ve been sleeping with all these years. That makes me feel he like he felt the threat of arrest and knew they had him cold and he panicked.

 

[vinayd]

Isn't some courtroom security always placed by defendants?

As far as I've seen. But for some reason his lawyers believe he is staying at the Hilton. Nothing is private once you are in custody.

 

[Jade]

That’s literally their job though. To defend their client vigorously. In an ideal world defense counsel would show more care and concern for victims and their loved ones but they can’t always do that and do their jobs at the same time. I don’t doubt they feel for the families. I don’t doubt this case and thoughts of the kids keeps them up at night. But their problem is to kick up whatever fuss they can in order to ensure RA gets a fair trial, is treated as well as he can be while awaiting trial, make sure his rights aren’t trampled and to try to convince the jury that RA didn’t do it. I don’t agree with everything they’ve done to date - but they seem to be doing their jobs.

Personally I think they have done RA a disservice with their convolved defense. If they are able to get him off they made him out as such a weirdo no one is going to want him around.

Their job is not to defend at all costs but defend to insure their client is returned to society free and whole.

If they had mounted reasonable arguments in reply to the Prosecutions evidence they might have succeeded.

RA could have moved on like Casey Anthony as Jose Baez defended her in a Jury finding her not guilty on the most serious counts. Not a likable defense but simply introducing doubt.

RA is ruined innocent or not and Andy and Brad did it with their antics.


all imo

 

[sunshineray]

Is it not reasonable for defense attorneys to expect privacy when consulting with their clients?

There has to be security based in the courtroom near the accused though, too many crazy things can happen. If it's true what they've claimed about their client's mental health it's even more of a concern I would think. And then the danger to RA from the audience is unfortunately always a possibility too.

 

[photographer4]

Well, if we wish to talk about unethical behaviour, it doesn’t get any worse than leaving confidential files out of nude dead children for “friends” to then leak.

They left them in their own office. The one lawyer was present when MW dropped by. Did he even know MW was going to come by? Did he call ahead? Did they text ahead to plan a mtg eg for lunch or to talk? If he didn’t expect a visitor, was there and had taken a call in another room, then I see no problem with their management of the material. It’s not like they splayed them out at a coffee shop to have a donut and discuss the material.

MW had some goal in doing this. I would still like to know what it was.

 

[photographer4]

Personally I think they have done RA a disservice with their convolved defense. If they are able to get him off they made him out as such a weirdo no one is going to want him around.

Their job is not to defend at all costs but defend to insure their client is returned to society free and whole.

If they had mounted reasonable arguments in reply to the Prosecutions evidence they might have succeeded.

RA could have moved on like Casey Anthony as Jose Baez defended her in a Jury finding her not guilty on the most serious counts. Not a likable defense but simply introducing doubt.

RA is ruined innocent or not and Andy and Brad did it with their antics.


all imo

I kinda feel like RA did that to himself really. Ya know by eating his own crud and smearing himself with it along with “other socially unacceptable behaviours”.

Just sayin’.

Richard Allen reportedly made ‘confessions’ to inmates, guards

Richard Allen reportedly made “incriminating statements to both inmates and guards” during his time in prison awaiting his double-murder trial.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[justtrish]

Rozzi also requested that in the future, there would be no security in close proximity when conferring with Allen. He opposed the fact that security was nearby in the courtroom Tuesday, but when offered the chance to speak with Allen in the sheriff’s office, the defense declined.

Delphi murder trial rescheduled for October; defense voices discontent with timeline

The trial is now slated for Oct. 14 to Nov. 15.

www.wane.com

And if someone tried to harm Mr. Allen, I am sure Rozzi would have harsh words about how he wasn't being protected.

 

[justtrish]

I don't trust this D at all, there will be a totally new story by Oct. IMO

I wonder if we'll get another Frank's memo about it if they do. You know they have to get that info out to the public BEFORE the trial and all.

 

[Salah11]

They left them in their own office. The one lawyer was present when MW dropped by. Did he even know MW was going to come by? Did he call ahead? Did they text ahead to plan a mtg eg for lunch or to talk? If he didn’t expect a visitor, was there and had taken a call in another room, then I see no problem with their management of the material. It’s not like they splayed them out at a coffee shop to have a donut and discuss the material.

MW had some goal in doing this. I would still like to know what it was.

Sorry, all I hear are excuses here. It’s their job to safely guard those highly confidential documents.

 

[photographer4]

Delphi double murder trial delayed: Richard Allen’s defense says trial needs to be longer

JG needs to go - her bias is astounding. Her refusal to offer an open ended trial is astounding. Its a simple solution to end the bickering and yet... she simply will not do it.

Also, hold on a minute here: "“We’re not talking,” answered Rozzi, admitting that the two sides and the judge are communicating through emails, which Gull said she would not do since her messages ended up being quoted in motions before the Court."

So she isn't holding hearings, has decided no more email communication?? Did anything get decided at all today about what is admissable or not? About whether NM gets bans on certain words or phrases?? Anything other than a new court date?? This is nonsense.
From the same link:
"Gull concluded the hearing by rescinding the Speedy Trial order, setting the fall trial dates and announcing that pre-trial proceedings would take place in Carroll County May 21-23 to consider challenges to evidence, a hearing she originally expected to be called and concluded today.

The judge has not yet set a date to hear amended Franks Motions filed by the defense to toss the original search warrant of Allen’s home or his arrest warrant based on discovered items, including a bullet reportedly matching a round found at the crime scene, and alleged investigator misrepresentation."

So everyone wants to whine and complain about the stall tactics of the Defense in this matter, but even NM refused to say how long it would take him to present his case, nothing gets decided at these useless hearings (seemingly ever!). Forget the circus, this is a straight up carnival.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Some of us lean the other way because of just the same...

Yeah, I get that.
I was responding to a post saying that the rest of us were wanting proof of innocence, which is not true.

 

[justtrish]

Delphi double murder trial delayed: Richard Allen’s defense says trial needs to be longer

JG needs to go - her bias is astounding. Her refusal to offer an open ended trial is astounding. Its a simple solution to end the bickering and yet... she simply will not do it.

Also, hold on a minute here: "“We’re not talking,” answered Rozzi, admitting that the two sides and the judge are communicating through emails, which Gull said she would not do since her messages ended up being quoted in motions before the Court."

So she isn't holding hearings, has decided no more email communication?? Did anything get decided at all today about what is admissable or not? About whether NM gets bans on certain words or phrases?? Anything other than a new court date?? This is nonsense.
From the same link:
"Gull concluded the hearing by rescinding the Speedy Trial order, setting the fall trial dates and announcing that pre-trial proceedings would take place in Carroll County May 21-23 to consider challenges to evidence, a hearing she originally expected to be called and concluded today.

The judge has not yet set a date to hear amended Franks Motions filed by the defense to toss the original search warrant of Allen’s home or his arrest warrant based on discovered items, including a bullet reportedly matching a round found at the crime scene, and alleged investigator misrepresentation."

So everyone wants to whine and complain about the stall tactics of the Defense in this matter, but even NM refused to say how long it would take him to present his case, nothing gets decided at these useless hearings (seemingly ever!). Forget the circus, this is a straight up carnival.

I do wonder if having the jury sequestered is the reason there is no opened ended trial?

They have to house them, feed them, and give them some timeframe so they can even know if it's possible to serve on this jury. A 4 week trial is very different for most than an 8+ week trial. Jurors have to be able to plan since they will be in a hotel until this is over. I think within reason days could be added for deliberations, but the judge is making it clear that witnesses need to be ready, no stalling to hold witness over to the next day or ending the day early because witnesses were not planned out. I've watched trials where the day is over at noon because so and so can't be here till the following morning and they want to present witnesses in a specific order.. or a witness is on the stand and cross will take too long so they request to end things and come back Monday.. meanwhile whoever is doing the cross has all weekend to prepare how to question a witness. Is that fair for jurors to be kept from their families indefinitely? Would the end result be best for RA if this trial took 8 weeks and then they deliberate and just say guilty so they can go home? I think there has to be some basic time line everyone can work with. I am sure as the days go on everyone can revaluate and the judge can let the state know.. they need to wrap it up.. same with the defense. What are they presenting for 3 weeks? If they haven't introduced any evidence to support a third party did it, then what are they presenting? I think that is a fair question for the judge to ask when they say they need weeks. The longer it goes on the higher the chance jurors get sick or some emergency comes up.

So all that to say I don't think it's wrong for the judge to set a time limit, it's holding these attorney accountable to present the facts.. not wild goose chases and fairy tales.

 

[sunshineray]

And she should be tbh. Because if she stays on, the ground work for an appeal is quite well laid in my view. If a new judge took over I think the appeals chances could go way down.

I disagree and this D insulting the judge, in the courtroom, in the hopes of initiating something is going to backfire on them, at some point. JMO

 

[photographer4]

I do wonder if having the jury sequestered is the reason there is no opened ended trial?

They have to house them, feed them, and give them some timeframe so they can even know if it's possible to serve on this jury. A 4 week trial is very different for most than an 8+ week trial. Jurors have to be able to plan since they will be in a hotel until this is over. I think within reason days could be added for deliberations, but the judge is making it clear that witnesses need to be ready, no stalling to hold witness over to the next day or ending the day early because witnesses were not planned out. I've watched trials where the day is over at noon because so and so can't be here till the following morning and they want to present witnesses in a specific order.. or a witness is on the stand and cross will take too long so they request to end things and come back Monday.. meanwhile whoever is doing the cross has all weekend to prepare how to question a witness. Is that fair for jurors to be kept from their families indefinitely? Would the end result be best for RA if this trial took 8 weeks and then they deliberate and just say guilty so they can go home? I think there has to be some basic time line everyone can work with. I am sure as the days go on everyone can revaluate and the judge can let the state know.. they need to wrap it up.. same with the defense. What are they presenting for 3 weeks? If they haven't introduced any evidence to support a third party did it, then what are they presenting? I think that is a fair question for the judge to ask when they say they need weeks. The longer it goes on the higher the chance jurors get sick or some emergency comes up.

So all that to say I don't think it's wrong for the judge to set a time limit, it's holding these attorney accountable to present the facts.. not wild goose chases and fairy tales.

Ok, I hear what you're saying, but make it all make sense! JG is NOT communicating anymore via email, hasn't held hearings, issues summary judgements without written decisions... this is crazy! If she cannot work with both the State and the Defense amicably, then she needs to go.