Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #184

Do you mean in JG's eyes? I don't think she would ever grant a Franks hearing. Maybe she's fine letting the appeal chips fall where they may after the trial so she doesn't have to deal with it. Since LE clearly lied about what BB and SC saw/witnessed in the PCA to obtain the search warrant, it would be quite the conundrum if she heard them out about it.

IMO MOO
And actually, how likely is it the jury will ever hear about the issues with the search warrant at all? Can JG just decide before the trial to forbid the Defense from bringing them up?
 
Just thought this needed to be posted again as I think it's VERY important in the scheme of things...or in the scheming of things AJMO

Click himself, back in Sept 2023, said nobody believes an Odinism sacrifice and the D was "twisting facts". And Click is to testify for the D?

"A retired Indiana police officer cited in court documents by defense attorneys for the man charged in the Delphi murders is calling into question how his statements have been characterized by attorneys, suggesting the defense is “twisting facts.”

(...)
"In a statement released to Court TV, retired Rushville, Indiana officer Todd Click writes: “No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.” Click did not agree to an interview, citing the gag-order in effect on witnesses and investigators in the case."

 
There is no evidence that the PCA included lies. The only document that counters it is the Franks which is also a bias interpretation of the testimony. JG reviewed the 136 document and all the footnotes/dispositions/evidence and found your assertion to be untrue.
Perhaps she has decided to ignore trollish behavior by defense and not allow her courtroom to be a circus for their grandstanding and immature behaviors. They can submit their motions supported/unsupported by facts and she can review and make a ruling.
JMO
I do hope JG has read the Franks memorandum by now.

As far as there being no "evidence" in the Franks memorandum, I will respectfully disagree. They provided myriad documentation and footnotes to support their claims--all information they got in Discovery from the state. Discovery that directly contradicted the "facts" in the PCA.

The Franks memorandum is not evidence, but neither is the PCA. These are not documents the jury will use to determine innocence or guilt in the trial. (@AugustWest feel free to let me know if I'm wrong about this.)

IMO MOO
 
I think even if the PCA includes misinterpretations or blatant lies isn't enough to throw out the the search warrant because the remaining information, especially what RA said, would have provided probable cause for issuance of the search warrant.

Maybe? But is that legally ok? Asking because I don't know.
 
Just thought this needed to be posted again as I think it's VERY important in the scheme of things...or in the scheming of things AJMO

Click himself, back in Sept 2023, said nobody believes an Odinism sacrifice and the D was "twisting facts". And Click is to testify for the D?

"A retired Indiana police officer cited in court documents by defense attorneys for the man charged in the Delphi murders is calling into question how his statements have been characterized by attorneys, suggesting the defense is “twisting facts.”

(...)
"In a statement released to Court TV, retired Rushville, Indiana officer Todd Click writes: “No one in law enforcement believes Abby and Libby were killed in a ritual sacrifice. That is the defense twisting facts for sensationalism.” Click did not agree to an interview, citing the gag-order in effect on witnesses and investigators in the case."


But, he also said he agrees with the defense on "who is responsible." I think the key words to take from his interview with The Murder Sheets is "ritual sacrifice." He does not say "staged to look like a ritual sacrifice."

Big difference, IMO.

This has been discussed at length on various podcasts after Click's explosive March 18th testimony, which is probably why the State wants to discredit him by digging into his employment and mental health records.

IMO MOO
 
This has been discussed at length on various podcasts after Click's explosive March 18th testimony, which is probably why the State wants to discredit him by digging into his employment and mental health records.

IMO MOO
RSBM/BBM
What was explosive about Click’s testimony on March 18th?
I just reread the transcript and don’t see it. JMO

He came on the case in 2018 and left the case 16+ months before RA’s arrest.

He had no direct involvement in the evidence or case against RA. IMO

Thanks in advance.
 
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I do hope JG has read the Franks memorandum by now.

As far as there being no "evidence" in the Franks memorandum, I will respectfully disagree. They provided myriad documentation and footnotes to support their claims--all information they got in Discovery from the state. Discovery that directly contradicted the "facts" in the PCA.

The Franks memorandum is not evidence, but neither is the PCA. These are not documents the jury will use to determine innocence or guilt in the trial. (@AugustWest feel free to let me know if I'm wrong about this.)

IMO MOO
She read and ruled.


In Gulle’s ruling regarding the Franks Hearing, she said “The Court finds the Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained information that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders would be found in the defendant’s home and vehicles. The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information. As the Court has found the Affidavit for issuance of the search warrant was valid, the search itself was reasonable and legal under Indiana law and Fourth Amendment case law.”


Judge in Delphi murders case hands down multiple rulings
 
Maybe? But is that legally ok? Asking because I don't know.
I don't know, I don't know how US system work, I am a totally ignorant about that but from what I heard/read I think the probable cause and search warrant are legal because the remaining information - what RA said is enough for a probable cause.
 
I don't know, I don't know how US system work, I am a totally ignorant about that but from what I heard/read I think the probable cause and search warrant are legal because the remaining information - what RA said is enough for a probable cause.

But I mean lying in some parts is excused if the other truthful parts alone support the arrest? Why not just exclude the lies in the first place?
 
But, he also said he agrees with the defense on "who is responsible." I think the key words to take from his interview with The Murder Sheets is "ritual sacrifice." He does not say "staged to look like a ritual sacrifice."

Big difference, IMO.

This has been discussed at length on various podcasts after Click's explosive March 18th testimony, which is probably why the State wants to discredit him by digging into his employment and mental health records.

IMO MOO
Actually records were subpoenaed from Rushville PD because Click had Brady-Giolio violations on his record. That's something very serious and goes to the truthfulness and integrity of the person. Considering his conflicting statements about the suppised Odinist ritual killings of the girls, his statement about the D's behavior of "twisting facts" and his serious violations as a police officer, I'd say it's important all that came out before trial. It would not have been in the defendant's best interests to hook his defense to such an unreliable and untruthful source...in the context of RA getting competent representation with credible witnesses. AJMO

 
Actually records were subpoenaed from Rushville PD because Click had Brady-Giolio violations on his record. That's something very serious and goes to the truthfulness and integrity of the person. Considering his conflicting statements about the suppised Odinist ritual killings of the girls, his statement about the D's behavior of "twisting facts" and his serious violations as a police officer, I'd say it's important all that came out before trial. It would not have been in the defendant's best interests to hook his defense to such an unreliable and untruthful source...in the context of RA getting competent representation with credible witnesses. AJMO


BBM

I was under the impression this isn't confirmed? I thought the records were requested to find this out. I haven't followed it...do you have a link that describes his Brady violations?
 
But I mean lying in some parts is excused if the other truthful parts alone support the arrest? Why not just exclude the lies in the first place?
No idea but maybe because there isn't proof they are lies? We have to wait for the officers testimonies and the witnesses testimonies to see. It is possible the police just misinterpreted what the witness said, it is possible one witness said one thing in 2017 and other things in 2019 or vice-versa, etc.
 
Not everything needs a hearing, MO

I'm aware. But this matter could easily be settled by getting BB and SC on the stand and asking them what they said and if LE misstated their words. I honestly don't really care since it will come out in trial, but she could have shrunk the stack of appeal evidence if she had a hearing about it, IMO. My belief is that they needed to get RA arrested, hoping he'd flip/plea, so a lot of "fudging" was done to obtain that PCA. If he's involved and his trial ends up in the rest of the dominos falling, even I think, "well, maybe the end justifies the means..." :)

Unfortunately for the State, RA didn't cave like they expected him to at Westville. MOO IMO

MOO, IMO.
 
I'm asking for proof of a Brady-Giglio violation not the State's "belief" and their subpoena of the employment records. I'm not aware of proof being provided yet, but I could be wrong.

View attachment 502510
Well as the public were not entitled to see them and rightly so. That's why the State subpoenaed them. If necessary they will come into the court record during pre-trial, I suppose. Otherwise I think they'd most likely stay sealed. JMO
 

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