GUILTY Australia - Lisa Harnum, 30, killed in 15-storey fall, Sydney, 30 July 2011 #1

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Makara said:
Um...there certainly is evidence of a struggle Mr. Strickland! Watch the video of SG dragging Lisa back into the unit. :banghead:
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What's the possibility he continued to hold his hand(s) over her nose/mouth as - we witnessed in the video - until she became unconscious? - then proceeded to discard her over the balcony? Could he have done that, or something to render her unconscious within 69 seconds? He is a strong man, she a frail 50 kg. He had a violent history - one punch to the head etc ...?
 
Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Re: Crown's 'star' witness who 'saw an unloading', Strickland says "it was an unexpected event, that he saw fleetingly for about 1 second"
 
Is anyone else confused by the stance of the defence? I always thought they would be driving an alternative scenario/version of events from the prosecution, to show how the same outcome has occurred but in a completely different way, to prove their client is innocent? SG has said it might have been an accident (I assume that is what he is trying to point towards, as in a cry for help etc) but then we have heard about her body image problems, testimony from friends saying they had a normal relationship etc. It’s all kind of pointing in the same direction, but not willing to push one particular chain of events? I guess other than SG was making her a cuppa.

Their statements so far today... well this is MOO but a quick summary would be 'look yeah we know he's a total a-hole, totally ruined her life, drove her to absolute desperation but you can't prove he picked her up & threw her over the edge!'
It just doesn't seem very pointed or decisive?
 
Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

Strickland says Crown's 'star witness' didn't talk to cops at scene b/c "he did not know what he saw... he was infected with doubt"
 
Fuskier said:
What's the possibility he continued to hold his hand(s) over her nose/mouth as - we witnessed in the video - until she became unconscious? - then proceeded to discard her over the balcony? Could he have done that, or something to render her unconscious within 69 seconds? He is a strong man, she a frail 50 kg. He had a violent history - one punch to the head etc ...?
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Absolutely! In all likelihood he did continue his assault once inside the unit. Having Lisa in a headlock, he could have easily broken her neck (deliberately or not) and that injury would have been contributed to the fall at autopsy. The fact that Lisa was in a prone position (laying horizontally across SG's arms) when she was thrown from the balcony leads me to believe that she was semi-conscious, totally unconscious or even deceased. If she had still been fighting for her life, IMO she would have continued to scream and there would have been fingerprints, footprints etc. around and on the balcony glass.
 
sleepinoz said:
Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 1m

CONT Asks: if she was unconscious, how was she carrying a handbag?
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We don't see it in the video but her handbag may have been slung over her shoulder when she was trying to leave. The handbag may not have left Lisa's person at all once she was dragged back into the unit. It also wouldn't surprise me if SG threw the handbag over first, followed by Lisa in very quick succession.
 
jamie233 said:
Is anyone else confused by the stance of the defence? I always thought they would be driving an alternative scenario/version of events from the prosecution, to show how the same outcome has occurred but in a completely different way, to prove their client is innocent? SG has said it might have been an accident (I assume that is what he is trying to point towards, as in a cry for help etc) but then we have heard about her body image problems, testimony from friends saying they had a normal relationship etc. It’s all kind of pointing in the same direction, but not willing to push one particular chain of events? I guess other than SG was making her a cuppa.

Their statements so far today... well this is MOO but a quick summary would be 'look yeah we know he's a total a-hole, totally ruined her life, drove her to absolute desperation but you can't prove he picked her up & threw her over the edge!'
It just doesn't seem very pointed or decisive?
Click to expand...

He's not on trial for being an a-hole. He is on trial for murder. And it needs to be (by law, not my opinion) guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'. And that is the problem - no matter what has been said etc etc if there is any doubt in the judge's mind then she should find him not guilty. He is presumed innocent and it is up to the prosecutor to prove that he is guilty.

dont get me wrong, I am not saying that I think he should be found not guilty or that I like the way the system works. It is for this very reason that I am very worried that he will get off. Because (in theory) all they have to do is create that 'doubt'. Which is why it is such a damn shame the cameras inside the house were 'not working'.

I am not an expert so if I am wrong then I would welcome some information of how it does work.
 
The evidence here is largely circumstantial - no direct proof that he threw poor Lisa - but a VERY STRONG circumstantial case indeed - no REASONABLE doubt has been cast by the defence at all - absurd things have been raised - suchbas heroeaping the balcony - one of the most grisly horrific murders in our nations history IMO - he probably snapped and seriously harmed Lisa - balcony throw a way to cover his own arse - hopefully she was unconscious duing the fall otherwise the terror would be unimaginable - theatrics in the lift? - more concerned about himself and the ramifications of his actions - no concern for his victim.
 
IMO it works on reasonable doubt.

Does anyone here have reasonable doubt? I know I don't. Lisa was screaming and fighting for her life .. there is video and next door neighbours' testimony of it, she told people beforehand she was afraid of the 'talk' he wanted to have, she told her mum 'ïf anything happens to me ...', she sure as heck didn't climb that tall balcony enclosure voluntarily taking her handbag with her, she left no fingerprints, a credible witness saw him (thank goodness!).

The judge is a person, and a woman with children, I can't see how she will have reasonable doubt either.

Let her decide in taking the path of justice for Lisa, let him take it to the Court of Appeals (and spend time in jail waiting for that), see if they have reasonable doubt.

Tedeschi will fight this fight till the end.
 
There are NO witnesses whatsoever to Lisa voluntarily getting over the balcony or standing/sitting/lying on the awning.

There ARE witnesses that she was seen lying in a horizontal position in Gittany's arms held out over the balcony when he unloaded.
 
sleepinoz said:
https://twitter.com/jodiespeers/status/400786189109575680

Tedeschi: SG changed depiction of death from suicide to accident. Judge: he 'has certainly taken a back seat from what he said to police'
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BBM:

This comment from the judge is the standout for me at the moment. She is well and truly onto SG and his various and differing versions of events. Tedeschi did a brilliant job of exposing SG as a cruel and controlling , who made Lisa's life hell. That's beyond dispute but it could be said that this doesn't prove that SG murdered Lisa. IMO SG is doing a fine job all on his own in exposing himself as a liar, a sneak and a murderer.
 
Makara said:
We don't see it in the video but her handbag may have been slung over her shoulder when she was trying to leave. The handbag may not have left Lisa's person at all once she was dragged back into the unit. It also wouldn't surprise me if SG threw the handbag over first, followed by Lisa in very quick succession.
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BBM

I've 'studied' the photos of Lisa's bag in my photo editor and I'm of the opinion that the bag had a shoulder strap. You can see it when you lighten/sharpen the first pic of the bag that was published. I was puzzled by the 'shiny' object showing in one of the images of Lisa in the brutal headlock as well and I believe now that it is a buckle on a shoulder strap over Lisa's shoulder. I did a side by side comparison in the attached image.

Photo of Lisa's bag
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder

Photo of Lisa's bag
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - AUSTRALIA - Lisa Harnum, 30, Sydney - Simon Gittany on trial for murder
 

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they'll get you said:
So true 'The Troopster', good to hear you. I been trying to find out about his past form. Any suggestions where?
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They'll get you, good to crash into you, also... re The Form. On post 234 of this thread from Makara... the ear bitten off stuff, .. he was resisting arrest for break enter steal. His threats to the counselor, Lisa's mother told of the broken finger, Lisa pushed into a planter, etc.. oh there is form alrighty.

But I find it hard to believe that Lisa was his first and only victim of this persistent and ruthless violence , both physical and psychological of women, Lisa in this particular instance .

I'd make a small bet that that unfortunate detective 20 years ago could have been the last time Gittany attacked a bloke. there were ramifications and consequences to that, and he wouldn't have liked that at all. It will be interesting to see how he got employment with his past record of violence, and violence towards a NSW detective, to boot. it must have effected his ability to travel, hold a passport, etc get visa's.

And I don't think he has been living like a monk up until Lisa came into his life, there will be other women savaged along the way., but we probably wont find out about this unless he is convicted and sentenced, then it will be legal to make public his past form in regard to violence against women.
 
Lisa Harnum's death was not suicide, Crown tells Simon Gittany trial

November 14, 2013 - 12:27PM

In his final submissions he asked Justice Lucy McCallum to consider the different accounts the accused had given to police compared with his witness testimony.

“He was painting himself in a very favourable light with police … by pretending he was assisting them … when in reality he was doing no such thing.”
Click to expand...


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/lisa-harn...ttany-trial-20131114-2xiaf.html#ixzz2kaNxasTa
 
No doubt in my mind there'd be other women who've suffered at Gittany's hands.. I do hope they find the courage to speak up, when he's convicted (which I hope and pray he is).

As for evidence.. sadly, even if there is hard evidence -- like fingerprints on her bag, from moving it, or bruises conducive to Lisa being gripped and lifted -- the struggle shown on CCTV could be raised as reason for those to exist.

But hopefully good sense prevails. There really is a chance he might go free, though, due to the case being heavily circumstantial. Scarily enough.
 
Jodie Speers ‏@jodiespeers 6m

Strickland: "Lisa did love Simon Gittany, and he loved her"... "She was not, in fact, a prisoner trapped in her own apartment"
 
Matthew Snelson ‏@mattsnelson9 9m
Strickland says the videos and texts of Gittany and Lisa Harnum prove
"she was not in effect a prisoner trapped in her own apartment".
 
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