Australia- Nine people stabbed including 9 month baby @ the Westfield Shopping Centre in Bondi Junction, suspect fatally shot, Sydney, 13 April 2024

[investikater]

Bondi Westfield attack sparks review of weapons carried by security guards

The government is examining whether guards at crowded public places should carry equipment such as handcuffs, batons or pepper spray – but it has ruled out allowing them to use guns.

www.smh.com.au

Were any of the guards armed?
My understanding of weapons laws is that they could have had batons and handcuffs if they had trained, applied for and received a licence.

 

[drsleuth]

Hero Westfield security guard makes desperate plea

A security guard who was stabbed in the stomach after bravely confronting crazed knifeman Joel Cauchi has asked why he has not been offered citizenship like 'Bollard Man'.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Sigh

I mean yes he has a point, seems a bit unfair...

However:

Why has he and the other guards not written a private letter to the PM and asked? Why straight to the press to whinge before even trying that? Is that really appropriate given the circumstances?

Unlike the bollard men...
He and the others were just doing their jobs.
that they were trained to do.
To be fair so was policewoman. But I think shes already a citizen so can't really compare.

I don't know how to put this delicately so...
Didn't he and the other guards kind of fail at their jobs?
Maybe they did their best I guess, but they weren't successful.
I'm not sure if they even really slowed him down?
Were the police dispatched in response to their call? (Why did it take so long?)

Finally this kind of situation was always likely to result from a bumbling PM pick-me-ing himself into a tragedy that didn't have all that much to do with him really in the scheme of things. Politicians never let a good catastrophe go to waste do they.

How many guards were there?

I'm sure they did their best, he was stabbed & still managed to raise the alert with the control office. What more could they have done? They are not armed.

Most security are not armed. Hospital security certainly are not armed. Not even battens.

I believe the first officer arrived within minutes & others very soon after.

JC entered for the second time @ 3:20, Inspector Amy arrived 3:25 ( so yes police were notified very quickly ) The first patient was @ St Vincents Hospital by 4:05

NO one should die or be injured " just doing their job "

All IMO

I'm not sure how many security there were .

Repeated resuscitation was needed to keep Bondi stabbing victims alive

Hospitals prepare for mass casualty events. At Sydney's St Vincent's hospital, they had to enact that plan on Saturday — this is how they handled the situation.

www.abc.net.au

 

[drsleuth]

Bondi Westfield attack sparks review of weapons carried by security guards

The government is examining whether guards at crowded public places should carry equipment such as handcuffs, batons or pepper spray – but it has ruled out allowing them to use guns.

www.smh.com.au

Were any of the guards armed?
My understanding of weapons laws is that they could have had batons and handcuffs if they had trained, applied for and received a licence.

No they were not armed.

Bondi Westfield attack sparks review of weapons carried by security guards

The government is examining whether guards at crowded public places should carry equipment such as handcuffs, batons or pepper spray – but it has ruled out allowing them to use guns.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Dotta]

I'm sure they did their best, he was stabbed & still managed to raise the alert with the control office. What more could they have done? They are not armed.

Most security are not armed. Hospital security certainly are not armed. Not even battens.

I believe the first officer arrived within minutes & others very soon after.

JC entered for the second time @ 3:20, Inspector Amy arrived 3:25 ( so yes police were notified very quickly ) The first patient was @ St Vincents Hospital by 4:05

NO one should die or be injured " just doing their job "

All IMO

I'm not sure how many security there were .

Repeated resuscitation was needed to keep Bondi stabbing victims alive

Hospitals prepare for mass casualty events. At Sydney's St Vincent's hospital, they had to enact that plan on Saturday — this is how they handled the situation.

www.abc.net.au

I agree.

Grappling with somebody wielding a knife could prove lethal.

Trying to disarm such a person with bare hands might certainly get one deadly stabbed.

Are such guards trained like Special Forces?

I don't think so.

Maybe they should be armed with tasers?

JMO

 

[drsleuth]

I agree.

Grappling with somebody wielding a knife could prove lethal.

Trying to disarm such a person with bare hands might certainly get one deadly stabbed.

Are such guards trained like Special Forces?

I don't think so.

Maybe they should be armed with tasers?

JMO

I don't think tasers would of made any difference IMO

 

[MadDoc]

I'm sure they did their best, he was stabbed & still managed to raise the alert with the control office. What more could they have done? They are not armed.

Most security are not armed. Hospital security certainly are not armed. Not even battens.

I believe the first officer arrived within minutes & others very soon after.

JC entered for the second time @ 3:20, Inspector Amy arrived 3:25 ( so yes police were notified very quickly ) The first patient was @ St Vincents Hospital by 4:05

NO one should die or be injured " just doing their job "

All IMO

I'm not sure how many security there were .

Repeated resuscitation was needed to keep Bondi stabbing victims alive

Hospitals prepare for mass casualty events. At Sydney's St Vincent's hospital, they had to enact that plan on Saturday — this is how they handled the situation.

www.abc.net.au

I agree.
Security guards at the shopping mall are not armed. They are not being paid to be seriously injured or die on the job. They are mostly there to prevent shoplifting and defuse altercations between (unarmed) customers and staff members.

When I heard that the hero with the bollard was (rightly) being offered citizenship for his brave actions, my thought was that the surviving security guard who was in hospital, and any immediate family members of the one who was killed, should also be rewarded in a similar way.

<modsnip - unnecessary>

 

[LadyL]

Bondi attacker had ‘mental health issues’ but most people with mental illness aren’t violent


Such publications only confuse readers. Let's assume the arguments listed are objective, and the conclusion is indeed as stated in the article. But then what? Just because the majority (statistical majority) is not noticed in cruelty (partly because family members do not report, among other reasons), it is proposed to leave the remaining minority, which, it should be noted, is already assumed to inevitably exhibit cruelty today or tomorrow, unmonitored in society and hope for the best? These could be children, they could be anyone, anywhere, but since they are a statistical minority, society is not entitled to protection from potential killers. That's exactly how this should be understood. If we count how many of these "isolated cases" there have already been, quite a long list accumulates. Moreover, such attacks in public places happen with alarming regularity. Whether it's a drug-crazed driver mowing down pedestrians on the street or a madman with a knife, such news seems to be increasingly common. And the reason is always the same - mental health issues, yet the person doesn't undergo treatment, doesn't take medication, and lives without any supervision. And what is this if not a delayed-action mine? I think the argument about the majority being harmless is completely irrelevant here. It's utterly wrong to reduce the problem to statistics. Protecting the population from potential attacks by unstable members of society should be prioritized, and the rights of the unstable are completely irrelevant here. In fact, it's nonsensical to prioritize the unwillingness of unstable members of society to seek treatment over the desire to live of other members of society, who statistically outnumber them in any case.

and just to add, these incidents are more common in other countries too, as we see from the cases here at WS.

 

[LadyL]

Exactly my thoughts.

Narcissistic and seeking notoriety - choosing the large, crowded shopping Mall in a big city for the attack.
(As I noted in my previous posts)

Stopped taking meds and the results were devastating.
(But predictable)

Father said in a video link a few posts up in this thread, that a DOCTOR decided to pull him off the meds as he was feeling soooo well.
Is it true???

Jeez!!!!

Shaking my head.
Oh well ...

JMO

if so, that doctor needs their license revoked

 

[LadyL]

I agree.
Security guards at the shopping mall are not armed. They are not being paid to be seriously injured or die on the job. They are mostly there to prevent shoplifting and defuse altercations between (unarmed) customers and staff members.

When I heard that the hero with the bollard was (rightly) being offered citizenship for his brave actions, my thought was that the surviving security guard who was in hospital, and any immediate family members of the one who was killed, should also be rewarded in a similar way.

<modsnip - unnecessary>

I hope so too.
The security guards deserve it too.

 

[LadyL]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>
here most security guards are current or future police foundations students

 

[drsleuth]

Security guard stabbed in Bondi attack likely to get permanent visa, PM says

A shopping centre security guard who helped confront Bondi mass-murderer Joel Cauchi is likely to secure a permanent Australian visa, following the intervention of the prime minister.

www.abc.net.au

Security guard stabbed in Bondi attack could become permanent resident after PM intervention​

By Nick Dole
Posted 38m ago

Mr Albanese said Mr Taha and Mr Guerot had both displayed selflessness and bravery through their actions.

"These are people who were putting… themselves in danger in order to protect Australians who they didn't know," he said,

"And that's the sort of courage that we want to say 'thank you' to, frankly."

 

[jjleroche]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... I'm not convinced however, that this guard has, of his own volition made this plea.

My guess, given the source of the report, is that a DM reporter MAY have sought out this guard (and possibly others) - asked him how he feels about the PM stating that the "bollard man" could stay as long as he likes, when no such thing has been offered to him. This is entirely speculative, but some news sources have an uncanny ability to create a story, when sometimes there isn't one (or if there is, it's not necessarily specifically how it's reported.
(IMO no. 1 tabloid rule - go for maximum clicks regardless.)

If this is the case in this instance, English is (presumably) the guard's second language. He MAY have simply agreed with a comment made by a reporter, not realising that it could (allegedly) be turned into him making a big deal about not also getting a visa extension offer. (JMO)

(My ABSOLUTE HERO is Damien Guerot (AKA "Bollard Man"), along with his friend Silas Despreaux - also a "bollard man" - just no footage of him). Silas apparently has no visa issue ATM. From all the footage I've viewed, Damien's breathtaking action was the only instance I saw of the alleged killer actually hesitating. Damien and Silas then raced with others, to direct and support lone police officer (AWE-INSPIRING Inspector Amy Scott) who brought the sickening rampage to an end.
Such irony IMO, that if the killer targeted women, as is suspected), it was a woman who brought his actions to an immediate halt. JMO

 

[investikater]

if so, that doctor needs their license revoked

She was tapering him down slowly and warning and monitoring him the whole time, as per his wishes, so that he could find a level where he was able to actually function.

Is it her fault he chose to do illegal and inappropriate drugs against her advice?
Is it her fault that schizophrenia drugs suck and no one bothers to improve them?

 

[investikater]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed> ... I'm not convinced however, that this guard has, of his own volition made this plea.

My guess, given the source of the report, is that a DM reporter MAY have sought out this guard (and possibly others) - asked him how he feels about the PM stating that the "bollard man" could stay as long as he likes, when no such thing has been offered to him. This is entirely speculative, but some news sources have an uncanny ability to create a story, when sometimes there isn't one (or if there is, it's not necessarily specifically how it's reported.
(IMO no. 1 tabloid rule - go for maximum clicks regardless.)

If this is the case in this instance, English is (presumably) the guard's second language. He MAY have simply agreed with a comment made by a reporter, not realising that it could (allegedly) be turned into him making a big deal about not also getting a visa extension offer. (JMO)

(My ABSOLUTE HERO is Damien Guerot (AKA "Bollard Man"), along with his friend Silas Despreaux - also a "bollard man" - just no footage of him). Silas apparently has no visa issue ATM. From all the footage I've viewed, Damien's breathtaking action was the only instance I saw of the alleged killer actually hesitating. Damien and Silas then raced with others, to direct and support lone police officer (AWE-INSPIRING Inspector Amy Scott) who brought the sickening rampage to an end.
Such irony IMO, that if the killer targeted women, as is suspected), it was a woman who brought his actions to an immediate halt. JMO

Excellent point I had not considered!
It would make sense with the photo of him in hospital. Has he even been discharged?

 

[investikater]

This again underscores to me that everyone should learn and practice self defense.

 

[drsleuth]

<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>

In NSW there are 6 types of security personnel

• There are six Class 1 licence subclasses, and you can hold more than one subclass at a time.
  • Class 1A Security Officer – patrol, protect or guard any property while unarmed whether static or mobile and to act as a crowd controller or in a similar capacity
  • Class 1B Bodyguard – work as a bodyguard or in a similar capacity
  • Class 1C Cash-in-Transit Guard – patrol, protect or guard cash-in-transit
  • Class 1D Guard Dog Handler– patrol, protect or guard any property with a dog
  • Class 1E Monitoring Centre Operator – monitor security alarm activations for the purpose of property protection
  • Class 1F Armed Guard – protect, patrol or guard approved classes of property while armed (you must have a licence or a permit to possess a firearm, see
  • Firearms Act 1996)

Class 1 Licence Subclasses - NSW Police Public Site

www.police.nsw.gov.au

I'd say most are a 1A, which are NOT armed.

<modsnip: Quoted/referenced post was removed>

Thankyou Mr Taha and Mr Guerot I'm sure you did your best under horrendous circumstances.

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Teary mourners gather for reflection day to pay respects to victims of Saturday's horror knife attack at Westfield Bondi Junction



"The doors of the usually bustling centre - which were plastered with black ribbons as a symbol of mourning, remembrance and to show solidarity with the victims’ families and loved ones - opened at 11am.

Six wreaths of white and yellow flowers - each representing the six victims - were displayed on the fourth level of the precinct.

Alongside were condolence books and black ribbon pins in a bowl, which mourners were encouraged to take one to wear to remember the victims."

 

[MadDoc]

if so, that doctor needs their license revoked

Licence revoked? For what? For agreeing to see how the patient goes without their medication for 6 months, and then the patient moves interstate and becomes uncontactable, and never attends for follow-up? If the patient is not involuntarily detained, is not on a Community Treatment Order, has no known history of violence (at that point) against self or others, there is nothing we can do. If we find out which doctor the patient is attending in their new state (through the parents or others), we can contact that clinic and say "this patient is now attending your service, could you please check how he is going and restart his medication if necessary" but the vast majority of the time we have no idea where they are.

Most of our patients with schizophrenia take themselves off their medication anyway, with or without our approval or knowledge, because that is just the nature of their illness. If they are not under legal compulsion to take their meds, what can we do - attend all of their homes and hold them down and shove their medication in their mouth or give them an injection against their will? That is assault for which we can be prosecuted.

Why is this on the GP and not the parents?

Take it as my opinion only as I am not verified here as a medical practitioner.

 

[OptimusLime]

Press conference 30 minutes ago:

 

[drsleuth]

Latest presser.