Australia - Russell Hill & Carol Clay Murdered While Camping - Wonnangatta Valley, 2020 #7

[Cedars]

Hypothetically, if the manslaughter plea is for Carol's death, he'd still then need to somehow get around self defence for Russell's.
Ironically, his story will need to be 'unbelievable' to be a truthful one.

We heard long ago that RH was not well enough to walk far from the campsite. He was not a gun owner. Why would he know what was in GL's vehicle? etc.

And then, who 'wrestles' for control of a loaded weapon?

2nd, who continues to wrestle over it after it goes off in your faces, and the bullet magically fires directly into the bystander. What, RH didn't want to go to her aid?

3rd, if you're strong enough to continue to wrestle for a gun, while pulling out a knife and stabbing the other person to death, then why couldn't you focus all your energy to grab the gun away from them?

Cockamamy story, IMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Inside the police investigation over the missing High Country campers

When detectives first arrived at the doorstep of Gregory Lynn’s family home they were just four months into one of the state’s most high-profile missing persons cases.

www.smh.com.au

Behind paywall but it says they searched JetStar headquarters in February 2022

The text relating to Jetstar is "Police execute a search warrant at Jetstar company offices regarding Lynn's employment".

This timeline was also included in the article:

March 2020
THE POLICE CASE: Hill is reported missing by his wife Robyn before Clay is reported missing two days later. Days later a camper finds the burnt out campsite, driving some distance to obtain phone reception and report it to police. When officers arrive on the 28th, they find items including Hill’s locked utility.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Police appeal for help to find Russell Hill and Carol Clay who they say hasn’t been heard from since March 20.

April 2020
THE POLICE CASE: Local police call in the missing person's squad to assist with the investigation and Operation Lexicon is launched. Detectives meet with Hill and Clay families, taking tooth brush and razor for DNA analysis. The Button Man is interviewed and cleared of any involvement.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Families issue first public statements via police including new photographs of the pair.

May 2020
THE POLICE CASE: Mobile phone data shows Hill's mobile phone travelling towards Mt Hotham from the Dargo area between on the morning of March 21. Local horse riders are then called in to help with a search of the valley.

June 2020
THE POLICE CASE: Police determine the pair are likely dead and obtain AMPR camera files from Mount Hotham. This identifies 12 vehicles during the time of interest, when Hill’s phone is also moving through the same area. Police now have two persons of interest.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Police tell the public they believe someone is involved in the pair’s disappearance with foul play involved. The public first learns that Hill’s drone has not been located.

July 2020
THE POLICE CASE: On the 14th, police visit Greg Lynn’s home for the first time but maintain he is a person of interest and not yet a suspect. At his house they find his car has allegedly recently been painted from dark blue to beige.

December 2020
THE POLICE CASE: Police begin listening into Lynn's mobile phone calls and plant listening devices in his home and vehicle.

March 2021
THE POLICE CASE: Cadaver dogs are used to search the Wonnangatta Valley over four days.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Police release location of campsite and say they’ve identified all but one driver in the area. Renewing their appeal.

April 2021
THE POLICE CASE: Shovels and screwdrivers are located near Mt Hotham, but are soon eliminated. Further searches of the valley for human remains also take place with search and rescue and air wing.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Throughout the month, police reveal NSW cadaver dogs are being called in to help with search for the second time and continued search for clues. They also hold another media conference, this time in Mount Hotham, with shovels reportedly found near the mountain.

October 2021
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Families of missing campers front news cameras for the first time to make a public plea for information.

November 2021
THE POLICE CASE: While police are listening into covert devices in Lynn’s car they grow concerned he may take his own life and make an unplanned arrest at Arbuckle Junction on the 22nd. Days later he is charged with murder and human remains are later found north of Dargo.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Early in the month, police release images of a four-wheel drive they say is yet to be eliminated from the investigation. Police believe the driver may have been camping in the same area and had a confrontational interaction with the pair. They later announce the arrest of a man on the 22nd.

February 2022
THE POLICE CASE: Police execute a search warrant at Jetstar company offices regarding Lynn's employment.
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Human remains are publicly confirmed as belonging to the missing pair.

January 2023
WHAT THE PUBLIC KNEW: Lynn is committed to stand trial in the Supreme Court on two counts of murder.

Inside the police investigation over the missing High Country campers

 

[JudgeJudi]

Does Victoria have the "no body, no parole" law?

Yes.

In Victoria, as per section 74AABA of the Corrections Act 1986 (Vic), the Board must not grant parole in respect of a prisoner serving a sentence of imprisonment for an offence of murder (including conspiracy to or being an accessory to), or manslaughter unless the Board is satisfied that the prisoner has cooperated satisfactorily in the investigation to identify:

• the location, or the last known location, of the body or remains of the victim; and​
• the place where the body or remains of the victim may be found.​

Factors previously outlined will be relevant to assessing cooperation.

Furthermore, the Board may have regard to information ascertained from the Crown’s case put at trial if that case includes reference to whether the prisoner was acknowledged to have information relevant to the location of the body or remains.

Victoria: "No body, no parole" laws

 

[Kemug]

Well, I haven't dropped in here in a while, been too busy following the Bryan Kohberger arrest, and the trial of Lucy Letby. Greetings to you all, hope you're doing OK.
But I just had a tiny thought, which I'll share with you all, to keep things moving on a little. Since we've known that GL has been arrested and charged, I personally have never had any doubts about his guilt, anyway that's my opinion. We've also had quite a lot of discussion about several other people who have gone missing in this area. And I have been happy to think that GL could well be responsible for their disappearances too, or at least some of them.
But - on rereading the article above, and being reminded of how GL seemed to be crying, and contemplating suicide, so that the police arrested him earlier than they had planned - I found myself thinking for the first time that GL was finding it hard to live with what he had done. And if that was the case, then perhaps he had never killed before. Well, it's a theory.

 

[JBowie]

But - on rereading the article above, and being reminded of how GL seemed to be crying, and contemplating suicide, so that the police arrested him earlier than they had planned - I found myself thinking for the first time that GL was finding it hard to live with what he had done. And if that was the case, then perhaps he had never killed before. Well, it's a theory.

I gather that behavior was after the 60 Minutes program had aired and it was clear that the heat was really on him.

With his reported propensity to talk to himself, and with police recording him, had he said something like "Well Lynn, you really screwed up this time" then I image that cabinets full of cold case files would have been opened.

 

[stacey_victoria]

Well, I haven't dropped in here in a while, been too busy following the Bryan Kohberger arrest, and the trial of Lucy Letby. Greetings to you all, hope you're doing OK.
But I just had a tiny thought, which I'll share with you all, to keep things moving on a little. Since we've known that GL has been arrested and charged, I personally have never had any doubts about his guilt, anyway that's my opinion. We've also had quite a lot of discussion about several other people who have gone missing in this area. And I have been happy to think that GL could well be responsible for their disappearances too, or at least some of them.
But - on rereading the article above, and being reminded of how GL seemed to be crying, and contemplating suicide, so that the police arrested him earlier than they had planned - I found myself thinking for the first time that GL was finding it hard to live with what he had done. And if that was the case, then perhaps he had never killed before. Well, it's a theory.

I really would love to give him the benefit of the doubt as I try to see the good in everyone, but his past has red flags already. His ex wife's death, in suspicious circumstances, for example. But I understand you were mainly talking about the missing people/unsolved cases focused in Vic.

 

[Bats]

Accused camper killer's case could be delayed

Accused camper killer Greg Lynn's trial could be delayed after his lawyer raised funding issues and a plan to challenge 15 pieces of evidence in the case.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[JBowie]

Accused camper killer's case could be delayed

Accused camper killer Greg Lynn's trial could be delayed after his lawyer raised funding issues and a plan to challenge 15 pieces of evidence in the case.

www.perthnow.com.au

Mr Dann also said the defence would be applying to exclude 15 items of evidence currently proposed by prosecutors against Lynn, including the record of interview "and basically everything that flows thereafter".

I've been concerned that police may have queered their own pitch by not following correct interview procedure. If it proves to be so, then it's inexcusable.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Pilot’s ‘battle’ in missing campers case

A court has been told of the “battle” a former Jetstar pilot is having as he defends charges he murdered two missing campers.

au.news.yahoo.com

The trial of the man accused of murdering two campers in the Victorian high country has been pushed back to next year.

Former Jetstar pilot Gregory Lynn on Thursday appeared via video link in the Victorian Supreme Court, where he has pleaded not guilty to the murders of Russell Hill and Carol Clay.

Mr Lynn’s lawyer, Dermot Dann KC, told the court that there were “a number” of funding issues regarding his client, the result of which vacated the October trial date for a new date in February to be settled this week.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Alleged High Country murder trial delay as accused Greg Lynn faces 'funding issues'

The Supreme Court trial of accused Greg Lynn will not begin until next year after his barrister raised "funding issues" at a court hearing.

www.abc.net.au

On Thursday during a pre-trial hearing in Melbourne, Mr Dann requested the trial be pushed back from a planned October 2023 start date until early 2024.

"A number of funding issues are trying to be dealt with at the present time. They're going to take a long time to resolve," Mr Dann said.

"In terms of it continuing to be a privately-funded matter, there's a battle in that regard."

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Bid to free Jetstar pilot accused over murder of secret lover campers

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn may never stand trial over the alleged murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73, a court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[JBowie]

Bid to free Jetstar pilot accused over murder of secret lover campers

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn may never stand trial over the alleged murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73, a court has heard.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn may never stand trial over the alleged murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73, a court has heard.

. . .

Respected Detective acting-Sergeant Brett Florence and his offsider Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham are expected to again be grilled by Mr Dann over how they dealt with Lynn after his arrest.

Well, Florence won't be "respected" if this all goes pear-shaped. Quite the opposite. Just incredible.

 

[marv hucker]

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn may never stand trial over the alleged murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73, a court has heard.

. . .

Respected Detective acting-Sergeant Brett Florence and his offsider Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham are expected to again be grilled by Mr Dann over how they dealt with Lynn after his arrest.

Well, Florence won't be "respected" if this all goes pear-shaped. Quite the opposite. Just incredible.

That’s what his defence lawyer is saying, yes.
They don’t tend to agree with prosecution, nor judges, that’s sort of the point.

DailyMail not always the most responsible, balanced outlet.

 

[marv hucker]

I personally can't see that happening here though. Hypothetically, if the manslaughter plea is for Carol's death, he'd still then need to somehow get around self defence for Russell's.
Ironically, his story will need to be 'unbelievable' to be a truthful one.

Yes i have the same thought.
GL & defence might have some success arguing successfully for 1x count of manslaughter as an accident/negligence/wrestle - but not 2x counts.

 

[JBowie]

That’s what his defence lawyer is saying, yes.
They don’t tend to agree with prosecution, nor judges, that’s sort of the point.

True, but (as a non-lawyer) I have had a bad feeling about the probity and legal admissibility of these interviews since they were first revealed months ago.

DailyMail not always the most responsible, balanced outlet.

That's for sure.

 

[Bats]

Ex-Jetstar pilot Greg Lynn may never stand trial over the alleged murders of secret lover campers Russell Hill, 74, and Carol Clay, 73, a court has heard.

. . .

Respected Detective acting-Sergeant Brett Florence and his offsider Detective Leading Senior Constable Daniel Passingham are expected to again be grilled by Mr Dann over how they dealt with Lynn after his arrest.

Well, Florence won't be "respected" if this all goes pear-shaped. Quite the opposite. Just incredible.

Without us having any clue about what transpired after GL's arrest, the Police most likely had enough evidence to charge him for murder without the need for his 'story' or even the need to have found the bodies of Carol and Russell.
Also, even if the video recording of his interview is deemed inadmissible, there may still be a possibility for the prosecution to quote parts of the interview as evidence so as not to cause prejudice due to bad Police behaviour.
JMO

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Russell Hill and Carol Clay murder trial delayed due to accused’s financial issues

The trial of Greg Lynn, the man accused of murdering Russell Hill and Carol Clay, has been delayed until 2024 after lawyers representing Lynn argued that their client was facing funding issues.

startsat60.com

During a pre-trial hearing on Thursday, May 11, barrister Dermot Dann KC cited his client’s “funding issues” as the cause for the request.

“A number of funding issues are trying to be dealt with at the present time. They’re going to take a long time to resolve,” Dann said as reported by the ABC.


“In terms of it continuing to be a privately-funded matter, there’s a battle in that regard.”

Lynn responded “not guilty your honour” to the charges against him and did not enter an application for bail.

As the hearing drew to a close, Sonnet thanked the family members of Hill and Clay who were in attendance for the “dignity” that they displayed during a very “difficult experience”.

 

[marv hucker]

True, but (as a non-lawyer) I have had a bad feeling about the probity and legal admissibility of these interviews since they were first revealed months ago.

to me it really reads like his defence lawyer is just trying every possible tactic, trick, loophole and argument he possibly can to weaken/whittle down the case against. Again, just doing his job.
Without watching all the film it’s impossible for any of us to know.

 

[JBowie]

Without us having any clue about what transpired after GL's arrest, the Police most likely had enough evidence to charge him for murder without the need for his 'story' or even the need to have found the bodies of Carol and Russell.

I get the feeling that the police have nothing other than circumstantial evidence. If they had direct evidence, then I don't see why they would have the need to interview Lynn over a period of four days.

Frankly, given what I have read about Lynn, I am very surprised that he said anything at all to them, let alone talk for hours and hours (if that's what he did) over a four day period.

Rather I would have expected him to take the 'no comment' route and let the police knock themselves out trying to make a case that would stand up in court.

A lot about this case puzzles me.

 

[JBowie]

to me it really reads like his defence lawyer is just trying every possible tactic, trick, loophole and argument he possibly can to weaken/whittle down the case against. Again, just doing his job.
Without watching all the film it’s impossible for any of us to know.

Yes, good defence lawyers will try all avenues, but there was media mention quite a while back that police initially recorded an hour-long interview with Lynn at his home some 18 months before he was charged.

Recording such an interview struck me as being quite irregular and that's when I began to wonder if a tactical blunder by police had maybe occurred right there.

My expectation and understanding is that by the time police are ready to record an interview (for evidential purposes), they steer you into an interview room and read you your rights.